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[Ted Belmont]

Yeah, Tom Tomorrow pretty much nailed that one.

[Shinra]

It's your wife in a dark alleyway, with no escape, and a rapist with a knife. She's panicking and he's moving fast. Can you be 100% certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she's going to be able to save herself? I hate to sound like an advertisement for extended magazines, but for fuck's sake, I'm not sure *I* could hit a moving target in an alleyway while panicking with just 7 bullets and I've been shooting guns since I was barely out of pull-ups.

Please, please, please tell me this is a theoretical and that you would not be so irresponsible as to start firing in this situation.  Please.

Anyway it's clear that people aren't buying the Glock so much to imitate Loughner as it is that they realized when people started talking about his gun that it's an easy weapon to kill someone with and not be identified.

I think I just decided what I'm going to call the new topic.

it was the theoretical situation where the rapist is 100% a rapist and not an old lady holding out a peppermint.

Would you prefer intruder in the hallway of your dark apartment? I'm just saying, there's a legitimate reason for having an extended magazine, and it tends to be one of those things that people jump on every time there's a high profile shooting with one of these things. Apparently New York's already flipped out and introduced legislature to ban extended magazines because of this shooting. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. A tragedy happened here, but there are better sources for blame than the gun that did it. How about how he got the gun in the first place? If the background check process wasn't such a fucking joke he never would have had a gun put in his hands to begin with.

[Rico]

I go by the general rule of, "If you can't hit something from relatively close range with a regular 14-round hi-cap magazine (or, if you prefer, standard 17-round glock) you have absolutely no business owning a nerf gun let alone a regular gun."

[Thad]

Would you prefer intruder in the hallway of your dark apartment?

He's saying that "just blanket the area with bullets and hope you hit the guy" is not a good solution to the can't-make-out-a-clear-target problem if YOUR WIFE IS STANDING RIGHT THERE TOO, doofus.

...

Meanwhile, on the subject of Tom Tomorrow, he reposted a piece from The American Prospect on the debate over violent rhetoric that bears reading.

[Shinra]

The argument was what if it was your wife alone in a dark alley, and she had the gun and was defending herself. I guess I didn't word that properly.

I go by the general rule of, "If you can't hit something from relatively close range with a regular 14-round hi-cap magazine (or, if you prefer, standard 17-round glock) you have absolutely no business owning a nerf gun let alone a regular gun."

The problem with that rule is that in the unlikely event that you don't hit your target or do enough damage to stop them, you're now unarmed.

I know bringing up a murderous nutjob with a gun isn't a great way to illustrate my point, but that guy at the school board Florida was in a well lit boardroom and the only person he managed to shoot successfully was himself.

[Doom]

You can tell a lot about a person from their paranoid gun nut fantasies.

Some people think, "If only someone nearby the shooter had a gun, they'd have stopped him," and have a heroic fantasy that they'll be the one who stops the next shooter

First thing's first, the initial head-shot: I'd like to meet the man who can react to a window of opportunity defined by seconds and executed with a concealed weapon at point-blank range! He is probably a trained sniper who is actively watching the target and scoped in and ready to fire, maybe a psychic sniper or he has a magical bird(crow) on his shoulder slowing time for him!

OK, more realistic variables and reactions are that he turns to fire into the crowd and assuming you have not panicked and fled, you go for your own piece. Now get a steady aim as you feel a real burst of authentic terror adrenaline and shoot to finish: hit to kill or disable the firearm cleanly, don't let him collapse and empty his clip from a sit! Also don't get knocked down by the people around you panicking, don't get shot by the authorities, and if you love irony, don't get shot by the other gun nut fantasy heroes who think you're his accomplice. Nah, just kidding, they probably won't think that far or clearly in a PANIC situation. The reactionary reptile part of their brain will shoot you because Gun = Danger.

Can we just have a Gunwin's Law where a firearms debate is forfeit when either side indulges a Gun Fantasy?

The argument was what if it was your wife alone in a dark alley, and she had the gun and was defending herself. I guess I didn't word that properly.

That's one determined fucking rapist if he's approaching somebody head-on with his body in the "don't miss!' position of a narrow alley. Bringing a knife to a gun-fight!

[Joxam]

I hate to argue with Shinra, but police go through entire courses dedicated to how to and when to fire a weapon and for how many rounds to fire a weapon. When presented with a dangerous situation most people will fire a gun until its empty no matter what the situation, how many bullets they have, and irregardless of danger to anyone but themselves. Seven shots at point blank range should be more than effective in taking down a would be assailant, and in fact probably constitutes excessive force in all but the most extreme cases. This statement is of course coupled with the fact that I believe no one can responsibly own a gun without proper training in gun safety and usage.

[Rico]

So, my question now is this: If you can't hit or do enough damage to stop someone with 14-17 bullets and that's all you have, why are you not carrying a secondary weapon of some kind?  Does having a non-33-round magazine preclude one from carrying extra magazines?  Any decent cc holster these days makes it pretty easy to pack an extra mag, and while you lose a little time reloading, presumably if you're blasting 17 bullets and missing he is not terribly close to you).  Mace or pepper spray?  A knife?  Now, a knife normally wouldn't be a good idea in that scenario, but after you've emptied a clip his way and if he is still coming, it can make a good surprise once he closes.

[Doom]

Sorry Rico but most Rapists take Disarming Counter at 4th level due to their need to close to grappling range to execute most of their base class abilities, so your best bet is to shift one tile away and try to finish him off with a ranged weapon.

[Rico]

I believe no one can responsibly own a gun without proper training in gun safety and usage.

I've always been more than a little surprised that more states don't require firearms training before purchasing a gun or even getting a ccl.  I don't carry anymore a) because I live in a much better neighborhood these days but mostly b) ammo is expensive and I don't hit the range enough and that matters way more than most people think it does.

[Thad]

The argument was what if it was your wife alone in a dark alley, and she had the gun and was defending herself. I guess I didn't word that properly.

What's she doing in a dark alley with a rapist?

The vast majority of rapes are by someone the victim knows.

I think the problem is that you have to cook up a ludicrous and unlikely situation to justify the use of a 33-round magazine, whereas the argument against them is right the fuck in front of us.

Seriously, people seem to get their hypothetical crime scenarios from fucking Batman.  In real life families don't just stroll through places with names like fucking Crime Alley on the way home from the theater.

I've always been more than a little surprised that more states don't require firearms training before purchasing a gun or even getting a ccl.

I think at this point the strict constructionists on the Supreme Court have ruled that the Framers put the "well-regulated militia" clause in the Second Amendment for no reason in particular and everybody's just supposed to ignore it.

[Bal]

33 rounds go down an alley and don't kill the shambling, knife wielding, maniac rapist. This guy is either

A) The Terminator
or
B) The Mummy

Either way I don't think more bullets is the answer to your problem.

[Norondor]

There IS no answer to Mummy Rape

[Rico]

[TA]

The argument was what if it was your wife alone in a dark alley, and she had the gun and was defending herself. I guess I didn't word that properly.

What's she doing in a dark alley with a rapist?

The vast majority of rapes are by someone the victim knows.

I think the problem is that you have to cook up a ludicrous and unlikely situation to justify the use of a 33-round magazine, whereas the argument against them is right the fuck in front of us.

Seriously, people seem to get their hypothetical crime scenarios from fucking Batman.  In real life families don't just stroll through places with names like fucking Crime Alley on the way home from the theater.

B-but Thad, what if torturing that terrorist is the only way to stop the nuke from going off?

[Brentai]

I really don't give a shit about this argument.

I was just really worried that Shinra was going to accidentally peg his wife someday.  False alarm.

[Joxam]

Westboro says they'll protest at Christina Green's (the 9 year old that was killed) funeral. Arizona tells them to go piss up a rope.

Tucson residents are preparing to line the funeral procession for Green, both to show their support of the family and to block them from seeing the Westboro protest.

"We just want to show the families in Tucson that we're a community that's bound together, through the good and the bad," said Janna Zankich, a 46-year-old dance studio manger.

Trevor Hill, a University of Arizona junior, is trying to coordinate the myriad groups so they are a calming and peaceful force on Thursday.

"Our goal is to be silent. We don't need to be a distraction — these are funeral processions," he said. "No signs or music, no counter-protests. Do not engage Westboro Baptist. It's just not worth it, and it's equally disrespectful for the family for us to be yelling."

Hill also hopes to show the world a different side of Tucson.

"There have been people claiming Arizona is the center of intolerance, the mecca of bigotry. That is absolutely not true. These are people who live their lives and want to raise families," he said. "It's honestly a very special community."

Its nice. Of course, the first thing I thought was, "Too bad so many people had to get shot first..." but that's probably just my cynical side.

[Norondor]

i was just hoping obama would use his unconstitutional powers he never gave up and have them all detained at gitmo forever, but that's good too i suppose

[Brentai]

The church announced it would protest Green's funeral, scheduled for Thursday, because the family is Catholic.

I think I'm gonna go to church this weekend.

[Zaratustra]

Westboro says they'll protest at Christina Green's (the 9 year old that was killed) funeral.

What, one shooting in the month wasn't enough for them?