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Game Boards => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Classic on October 03, 2008, 12:07:11 AM

Title: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Classic on October 03, 2008, 12:07:11 AM
I keep reading this as "Let's Play Final Fantasy XI" and then thinking, "Let's not."

What is the appeal of this MMO? Does it just attract the stupid (e.g. Scott (http://www.vgcats.com/ffxi/?strip_id=0))? Or is there actually some legitimate appeal to it? It seems like an MMO where you got to be a clan member from out of a tactics game would be really cool. I hear there is a job system, and a game that encourages partying to the exclusion of single player play. Why is it actually the worst thing to ever spend money on?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 03, 2008, 12:15:00 AM
Because it's built around the Japanese mentality of "If you feel like the game is raping you, it's fun" or...I mangled that, but the idea I am attempting to say is that it's insanely hard (some of the bosses) and grindy.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on October 03, 2008, 10:39:26 AM
Quick, turn on the Pacobird signal.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 10:47:36 AM
You know, criticisms of the game that were totally valid when you all played it 5 years ago have not gone unnoticed by square and they have slowly but decidedly been making an effort to oh never mind
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Classic on October 03, 2008, 10:56:07 AM
Well, Lyrai  just complained about it being an (unusually hard) MMORPG... I don't think they're going to change that.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 03, 2008, 11:14:55 AM
it's hard compared to WoW, but so is flan.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 03, 2008, 11:30:34 AM
If I want serious business penalties every time I die, I'll boot up fucking Diablo 2 and roll a hardcore druid.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on October 03, 2008, 11:44:44 AM
Around the start of the year, I was in a FFXI group with guys from the ToastyForums to see if the game was any better with a permanent group. Not having to be LFG constantly was a huge help, but it's still such a tedious grind and it's a pain in the ass to earn money, so I quit before too long.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 03, 2008, 12:23:36 PM
It's still the distilled essence of an MMORPG.  That is:

1) No soloing, fucking ever.
2) Player-based economy is the only real way to get by.
3) Min/max or face, if not defeat, a torrent of rage from your allies for not being as efficient as possible.
4) Quests never deviate much from kill x ys or bring me z qs.
5) Everything else is grinding.

I'm sure it appeals to certain players - those who want nothing more than to be a part in an extremely efficient machine.  Very Japanese.  If you're looking for the usual exploration and freedom of the genre - and the series - however, you can forget it.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 02:52:03 PM
There is something extremely fucked up about my psyche that calls me to be an FFXI apologist to its detractors and its harshest critic to its fanboys.

It's still the distilled essence of an MMORPG.  That is:

1) No soloing, fucking ever.

Not exactly true.  For reasons that should be fairly obvious, they can't at this point make players as strong as WoW players in relation to mobs because it would require restructuring the game from the ground up, but they have done a LOT to add solo viability in the past few years.

1) Signet change: you get a massive buff to evasion and defense when fighting EM or weaker mobs while signet is up, and resting hp ticks scale with your level/max hp.

2) Adventuring Fellows: A short quest chain at Rank 4 gets you an item that lets you summon an NPC that will follow you around, fight for you, heal you, and only cost you 30% of your exp.  He'll level up and gain new abilities, too.  I had a lot of fun with mine.

3) Buffs to EP/DC XP.  This just happened a month ago but particularly easy prey XP was doubled.  I was trying it out and leveled a Ranger from one to 6 in 20 minutes. 

4) Dancer, a new job that converts TP into healing abilities.  Sub it and lololololol

5) Campaign: The most recent expansion allows 60+ish players who are LFG to travel to frontier bases and sign up to fight TEH BEASTMAN HORDES for solo XP.  It's nothing compared to the XP you get in a level 75 merit point party (usually 10-12k/hour) but hey, it's 3-4k an hour on a good day and it's great if you only have like a half hour to play and just want to jump in and kill stuff.  Also, no XP loss for dying while your Campaign tags are active.  So there's that.

None of this makes it like WoW soloing, and rightly so, because the game's focus is totally party.  But it's not like soloing isn't semi-viable these days.

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2) Player-based economy is the only real way to get by.

This was always my favorite part of the game, honestly.  I like the fact that crafting is actually viable.  MMO crafting is a dying institution, it seems, and it's nice to have a game like FFXI that still strongly supports it, but YMMV.  I would rather make money to buy something than wait for a random drop in a 40 man raid, at any rate.

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3) Min/max or face, if not defeat, a torrent of rage from your allies for not being as efficient as possible.

Every game has this problem, and FFXI's player base is such a bunch of pussies that they'll just complain about you in LS chat.

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4) Quests never deviate much from kill x ys or bring me z qs.

Yes and no.  They aren't that rewarding either, for the most part.  The main reason to quest in FFXI is cutscenes, because hey, you're playing an FF game. 

That said, most quests really flesh out a complete story arc.  It's really impressive the amount of detail and dialogue there is in the game, to say nothing of all the nation and expansion mission tracks, each of which basically encapsulate an FF game in themselves.  Chains of Promathia, in particular, is one of the more engaging Final Fantasies in recent memory.

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5) Everything else is grinding.

Yes.  But the flipside is that the (massive) endgame is way more casual than, say, WoW, without getting into too much detail.

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I'm sure it appeals to certain players - those who want nothing more than to be a part in an extremely efficient machine.  Very Japanese.  If you're looking for the usual exploration and freedom of the genre - and the series - however, you can forget it.

I've been playing it on and off since launch, and my current character is about 4 years old.  I dislike the game more often than not; it really does suffer from absolutely crippling design flaws that will never be fixed.  That said, I can honestly say that not once in the past 4 years have I logged on my dude and said, "hmm, there's nothing for me to do."

FFXI is a game for somebody who wants it to be a full-on hobby in its own right.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 03, 2008, 02:58:09 PM
FFXI is a game for somebody who wants it to be a full-on hobby in its own right.

Ding.

And yes, the same is true for WoW, which doesn't excuse a damn thing.  I stopped playing WoW at the point where a session took more than an hour minimum.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 03:36:41 PM
FFXI is a game for somebody who wants it to be a full-on hobby in its own right.

Ding.

And yes, the same is true for WoW, which doesn't excuse a damn thing.  I stopped playing WoW at the point where a session took more than an hour minimum.

Well, that's the genre; not really sure what to say otherwise.

Totally agree about the exploration thing btw.  You go out into the world and there's nothing there.  I'm not sure why half the zones in the game even exist.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 03, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
So how about that boss that was still alive after 18 hours and the people who were fighting it were vomiting and shit.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 03, 2008, 04:10:26 PM
I think they got rid of that guy.  Confirm/deny.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 03, 2008, 04:11:51 PM
There were two, actually. They nerfed one and he was beaten in 4 minutes by a bunch of Dark Knights spamming the MMO version of "Sacrifice HP for Attack" and the sword boosted attack and drained HP into you or something Pacobird what am I talking about here...

I think something had "Octo" in it's name.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on October 03, 2008, 04:24:03 PM
I remember running to Jeuno as like a level 4 just for shits. That was.... fun?

I think I quit when I hit twenty, got the stuff for my Chocobo, and was told I had to wait like a day to get it.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 03, 2008, 04:34:17 PM
Pacobird I'm going to have to file a cease and desist in your direction because it is simply intolerable for you to speak in your clear, logical and handsome way and revive in me the dark, twisted seed of my psyche that thinks FF11 would be an awesome hobby, thanks.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 04:40:23 PM
There were two, actually. They nerfed one and he was beaten in 4 minutes by a bunch of Dark Knights spamming the MMO version of "Sacrifice HP for Attack" and the sword boosted attack and drained HP into you or something Pacobird what am I talking about here...

I think something had "Octo" in it's name.
Kraken Club.  Hits up to 8 times every swing.  They used Souleater, which adds 10% of their max HP to every swing as damage, and Blood Weapon, which converts all damage done to healing.  Kraken DRKs are bullshit but the clubs still sell for 20-30 million so whatever.

They nerfed that, but hilariously, the guy could still Benediction and wipe your group after Blood Weapon wore off, the DRKs killed themselves on souleater in 3 seconds, and everybody died.  Absolute Virtue's been arounmd for 4 years with 0 legitimate kills.  He's a joke.  Nobody does him.

The one that people actually spent 18 hours on was Pandemonium Warden; the outcry came from a lot of players who'd come to the conclusion that square actively hates its players base, which might be true.  The response was OK FINE WE'LL MAKE IT SHORTER OH AND HERE'S SOME STUFF TO IMPROVE LEVELING and blammo doubled EP XP and City of Heroes paragonning so you can actually play with friends/guildies on the jobs you want to play.

Current status of AV and PW is still unkilled, though now they have way less HP and automatically despawn after two hours.  Most endgame stuff in FFXI has really hard time limits like that; 4-5 hour raids don't generally happen but you're usually racing against the clock, which is really disorienting the first time you encounter it because holy shit this is still FFXI right


Pacobird I'm going to have to file a cease and desist in your direction because it is simply intolerable for you to speak in your clear, logical and handsome way and revive in me the dark, twisted seed of my psyche that thinks FF11 would be an awesome hobby, thanks.

I will swear up and down that FFXI is, on the whole, the best PvE experience currently available on the MMO market, and certainly the most cooperative.  That said, that shit requires an investment.  You really need to make a decision at the outset about how you are going to play that game, because if you plan on just fumbling your way to max level like I did, it's going to take you the 3 years of rerolling jobs and quitting periodically in disgust that it took me until you just suck it up, buy some gil, pick an OP job, and power your way to 75, at which point the game totally changes.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 03, 2008, 04:49:02 PM
Current status of AV...is still unkilled,

http://kotaku.com/5049761/epic-hard-ffxi-boss-killed-in-one-minute

Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 04:50:56 PM
Current status of AV...is still unkilled,

http://kotaku.com/5049761/epic-hard-ffxi-boss-killed-in-one-minute



And as I said, they nerfed that.  It was a bullshit tactic that has been used for years to kill a variety of the hardest bosses in the game in literally a matter of seconds.  AV has never seen a legitimate kill.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 03, 2008, 04:56:45 PM
KRAKEN CLUB KRAKEN CLUB
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 03, 2008, 04:57:44 PM
How do you define a 'legit' kill, Paco.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: sei on October 03, 2008, 05:57:52 PM
I think something had "Octo" in it's name.
Octogenarian, with the rage of a thousand Yamauchi.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 03, 2008, 06:11:06 PM
How do you define a 'legit' kill, Paco.

Here's a hint: Not like that.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 03, 2008, 06:13:25 PM
How do you define a 'legit' kill, Paco.

Here's a hint: Not like that.

How? To me, that's a legit kill. No glitches were used that did things outside of what was intended. Job A, used Abilities B & C, and Weapon D. That is what I see. Nothing about getting it caught behind a wall, or glitching it so it turns around and gets stuck in the ground, or anything like that.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 03, 2008, 06:24:36 PM
Quote from: Patch Notes Following Use of Job A, used Abilities B & C, and Weapon D to do anything remotely important
Job A, used Abilities B & C, and Weapon D no longer cause X where X = something important

I fink dat when dey nerf it, dat'z da end o' dat.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McFrugal on October 03, 2008, 06:39:42 PM
I think the problem was that Souleater did that bonus damage on each hit, not each attack, so Kraken Club could do utterly ridiculous amounts of damage.  Blood Weapon then removed the negative side effect of Souleater, PLUS it made the DKs practically invincible with all the health they were healing.

40 guys doing huge damage and not dying?  That's a broken gameplay mechanic.  May as well be a glitch.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on October 03, 2008, 06:40:29 PM
Oh yeah, the last FFXI apparently introduced a level-synch feature that lets you "level down" to anyone's level so you can party with them and gain EXP. It even adjusts your equipment automatically, so you don't have to swap gear. I think that's actually a cool feature that should be introduced in more games, but then I'm not much of an MMO player.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kashan on October 03, 2008, 07:10:39 PM
My room mate is actually part of the guild that downed AV. I saw him do it the first time, though I didn't really know what was going on. I am going to have to say that if they didn't glitch it then it's legitimate, and they didn't. They gave AV a shit ton of armor now though so he takes basically no damage from physical attacks apparently.

Personally I'd be pissed if I sank the money for the kraken club to kill AV and then SE updated it to make that tactic not work anymore just because they didn't like it.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 03, 2008, 07:15:39 PM
You could avoid a lot of this argument by just saying "killed without Kraken Club" instead of "legitimate kill."  Having a particularly unstoppable strategy isn't cheating so much as breaking the game, and your personal opinion on doing so may vary.  See also Uber Medics.  ...or AWP Faggotry, or Spawn Camping, or Zerg Rushing, or Shinespiking, or every other powerful technique in the history of online gaming.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on October 03, 2008, 07:26:49 PM
Hey guys we used tanks! Oh my god they reduce damage. Thats not a legitimate kill unless you dont use tanks. If its in the game its legitimate. Using aspects of the game to your advantage is part of the game. Hell if using gamebreaking tactics that players worked together and put together whats the point of playing a mmo.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 03, 2008, 07:28:08 PM
I won't deny that nine times out of ten, dev decisions in any online game are as much a product of the occult and star-gazing as they are any sort of logic, but...

Guild does X, X is removed from the game immediately isn't a terribly hard leap of logic to follow.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 07:33:08 PM
My room mate is actually part of the guild that downed AV. I saw him do it the first time, though I didn't really know what was going on. I am going to have to say that if they didn't glitch it then it's legitimate, and they didn't. They gave AV a shit ton of armor now though so he takes basically no damage from physical attacks apparently.

Personally I'd be pissed if I sank the money for the kraken club to kill AV and then SE updated it to make that tactic not work anymore just because they didn't like it.

It's not like he's not getting any mileage out of his K Club.

I don't think you guys are getting it.  A tactic that turns a 45 minute fight (like, say, Bahamut v. 2) into a 45 second fight is broken, but if that seems legitimate to you, allow me to direct you to Hello Kitty Island Adventure or another MMO that might be more your speed.  Most people are happy they didn't nerf KCDRK completely.  I'm not saying a look down on KCDRKs or whatever because it's not like  somebody wanting to completely trivialize content in a video game makes my monocle pop, but at the same time it's not like this nerf was unjustifiable.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on October 03, 2008, 07:36:20 PM
Also do they just plan on releasing more jobs that fail, and not increase the job levels? WoW is up to 80 come the expansion, and im sure WAR is increasing past 40 soon.. I think thats the cap i havent dumped alot of time into it yet.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kashan on October 03, 2008, 07:39:23 PM
My room mate is actually part of the guild that downed AV. I saw him do it the first time, though I didn't really know what was going on. I am going to have to say that if they didn't glitch it then it's legitimate, and they didn't. They gave AV a shit ton of armor now though so he takes basically no damage from physical attacks apparently.

Personally I'd be pissed if I sank the money for the kraken club to kill AV and then SE updated it to make that tactic not work anymore just because they didn't like it.

It's not like he's not getting any mileage out of his K Club.

I don't think you guys are getting it.  A tactic that turns a 45 minute fight (like, say, Bahamut v. 2) into a 45 second fight is broken, but if that seems legitimate to you, allow me to direct you to Hello kitty Island Adevnture or another MMO that might be more your speed.  Most people are happy they didn't nerf KCDRK completely.

He actually didn't buy one. And yeah they shouldn't make it a 45 second fight, but I'd say that speaks to the poor design of the game. If they don't won't people to beat it by straight up breaking the game then they should make it something that can be beaten otherwise.

I just don't see the point of having bosses in a game that you don't want killed, but which aren't invincible. Either make it a legitimate goal or don't. This is especially bad in light of the fact that SE supposedly beats every boss before releasing it into the game.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 03, 2008, 07:39:50 PM
My room mate is actually part of the guild that downed AV. I saw him do it the first time, though I didn't really know what was going on. I am going to have to say that if they didn't glitch it then it's legitimate, and they didn't. They gave AV a shit ton of armor now though so he takes basically no damage from physical attacks apparently.

Personally I'd be pissed if I sank the money for the kraken club to kill AV and then SE updated it to make that tactic not work anymore just because they didn't like it.

It's not like he's not getting any mileage out of his K Club.

I don't think you guys are getting it.  A tactic that turns a 45 minute fight (like, say, Bahamut v. 2) into a 45 second fight is broken, but if that seems legitimate to you, allow me to direct you to Hello Kitty Island Adventure or another MMO that might be more your speed.  Most people are happy they didn't nerf KCDRK completely.  I'm not saying a look down on KCDRKs or whatever because it's not like  somebody wanting to completely trivialize content in a video game makes my monocle pop, but at the same time it's not like this nerf was unjustifiable.

Look pal I rolled Night Elf Hunter to take advantage of a game mechanic, I've done nothing wrong here.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 07:41:07 PM
I hope they never increase the job level. While I think it would help mages of all stripes by giving them access to Convert, it means old content becomes irrelevant.  one of the best parts about FFXI is that the gear from Tu'lia, a raid zone that's been in the game for 5 years, are atill viable and in fact are in some cases still best-in-slot.  Every time WoW bumps the level cap, an entire expansion's worth of content becomes irrelevant.  Fuck a lot of that, I say.

PS: Jobs that fail?  BLU, COR, DNC, and SCH are all amazing and PUP, while not that great for group stuff, is an extremely strong soloer and is treated as such.  The only classes in the game I would honestly say are not very good are DRK (which at the very least has Kraken Club retardation) and THF (which is still sought after for endgame solely on the basis of Treasure Hunter).

EDIT: WHM has problems at 75, but that's another story.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 07:42:15 PM
My room mate is actually part of the guild that downed AV. I saw him do it the first time, though I didn't really know what was going on. I am going to have to say that if they didn't glitch it then it's legitimate, and they didn't. They gave AV a shit ton of armor now though so he takes basically no damage from physical attacks apparently.

Personally I'd be pissed if I sank the money for the kraken club to kill AV and then SE updated it to make that tactic not work anymore just because they didn't like it.

It's not like he's not getting any mileage out of his K Club.

I don't think you guys are getting it.  A tactic that turns a 45 minute fight (like, say, Bahamut v. 2) into a 45 second fight is broken, but if that seems legitimate to you, allow me to direct you to Hello kitty Island Adevnture or another MMO that might be more your speed.  Most people are happy they didn't nerf KCDRK completely.

He actually didn't buy one. And yeah they shouldn't make it a 45 second fight, but I'd say that speaks to the poor design of the game. If they don't won't people to beat it by straight up breaking the game then they should make it something that can be beaten otherwise.

I just don't see the point of having bosses in a game that you don't want killed, but which aren't invincible. Either make it a legitimate goal or don't. This is especially bad in light of the fact that SE supposedly beats every boss before releasing it into the game.

See earlier post re: AV is a joke and nobody legitimately tries him.  Not making excuses for it but it's one.  fucking.  mob.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 03, 2008, 07:49:00 PM
Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

Using the KC on everything else to gain XP, that's a problem, but only because there's a roomful of people out there whose job it is to keep players from shooting right past everyone else in terms of power.  I know them.  They're extremely frustrated.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 07:57:50 PM
Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I'm just explaining the mechanics of the trick and pointing out that its fucking retarded.  Are you saying it's not?

FTR, AV drops a LOT of loot (7 drops a kill), though, so in a game like FFXI where loot drops are famously unreliable, it was almost gamebreaking.

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Using the KC on everything else to gain XP, that's a problem, but only because there's a roomful of people out there whose job it is to keep players from shooting right past everyone else in terms of power.  I know them.  They're extremely frustrated.

Blood Weapon is a two hour ability. Doing a KC Souleater without it kills you immediately.  It's not for XP.  But at any rate, I totallyagree.  The mechanics of Souleater beg for this kind of exploit but honestly DRKs are so weak in endgame that it's hard to tell them they can't have the one thing that makes them desirable.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 03, 2008, 08:00:52 PM
I'm saying it's in the game and needs to be fixed, but you can't fault the people who discovered and used the strategy, unless they're actually using it to break the game.

(Did I ever actually have these arguments with the FFXI GMs?  Hell no.  They never said SHIT about FFXI when they weren't handcuffed to their desks.  It would have been a fun argument, though.)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 08:06:37 PM
I'm saying it's in the game and needs to be fixed, but you can't fault the people who discovered and used the strategy, unless they're actually using it to break the game.

Again, as I said, I don't begrudge anybody for using it, and the playerbase as a whole is just happy they didn't nerf KCDRKs as a whole.  I would have felt very sorry for all those players that spent 20 million on a K Club if they had.

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(Did I ever actually have these arguments with the FFXI GMs?  Hell no.  They never said SHIT about FFXI when they weren't handcuffed to their desks.  It would have been a fun argument, though.)

Despite the quality of the game, its players are the dregs of humanity.  I don't envy anybody who has to work the customer service end.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 03, 2008, 08:17:03 PM
Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I'm just explaining the mechanics of the trick and pointing out that its fucking retarded.  Are you saying it's not?

It may be "fucking retarted" to you, but to a whole bunch more people it's "A way to kill something no one else has done."

In WoW, is killing Drak by having a Hunter kite him away to down his adds "fucking retarted?" It's the only way I ever saw people able to kill him before most of the late BC content, which simply gave players obscene amounts of defense and attack to kill the two guards quick enough.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Air on October 03, 2008, 08:31:44 PM
`Why not just let them have their AV kill combo and release a fucking Omgea AV on the next game that doesn't allow it? Drop the loot count down to 1 or 2, and everyone is happy.

Anyway, good MMOs like PSO never have this problem  :perfect:.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McFrugal on October 03, 2008, 08:48:09 PM
Yeah, it's too bad you can't play it anymore.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on October 03, 2008, 08:50:58 PM
You cant play official anymore. Im sure theres plenty of private servers around here somewhere.. Or if you want to support them.. PSU was a decent blackhole of time.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Arc on October 03, 2008, 09:21:38 PM
Hello Kitty Island Adventure

October 6th, yo! (http://www.hellokittyonline.com/us/)

:;_;: I wasn't accepted into the Closed Beta.

Naturally, HKO comes out the same day as the official release of S4 League... :MENDOZAAAAA:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 03, 2008, 11:48:23 PM
Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I'm just explaining the mechanics of the trick and pointing out that its fucking retarded.  Are you saying it's not?

It may be "fucking retarted" to you, but to a whole bunch more people it's "A way to kill something no one else has done."

And it's now "disabled" because it is an "unintended mechanic" that makes the fight "too fucking easy" and Square gets the "last word" because they "develop the game".

You are insufferable.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 03, 2008, 11:51:01 PM
You're just "berserk" because you couldn't find a "Mithra" to "grind" with.

<I don't speak> <English>.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Thad on October 03, 2008, 11:54:20 PM
Paco!  You are posting here!

Why is it a thread I am utterly disinterested in? :nyoro-n:

How are things?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Classic on October 03, 2008, 11:59:24 PM
THAD IS DERAILING A THREAD!!!  :whoops:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 04, 2008, 12:17:19 AM
Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I'm just explaining the mechanics of the trick and pointing out that its fucking retarded.  Are you saying it's not?

It may be "fucking retarted" to you, but to a whole bunch more people it's "A way to kill something no one else has done."

And it's now "disabled" because it is an "unintended mechanic" that makes the fight "too fucking easy" and Square gets the "last word" because they "develop the game".

You are insufferable.


You are acting way, WAY too butthurt about this. Seriously. It's pretty obvious Square hates their players in FFXI. THis has been the only kill, period, on this guy. You don't think there's something wrong there? The only actual kill involved something that they immediately took out?

Poor game design. Seriously, chill.

To reiterate, since the original post I made here was made in haste:
I see a number of things here
A) Very, VERY bad game design in reguards to AV. Things in your world that your players can fight should be able to be killed. If you give them something that cannot be beaten, they have no incentive to try, and in turn, no incentive to give you money.

B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, General Drakksaith, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drak is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drak? A Hunter gets Drak's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drak to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

C) Horrible playtesting. Why did no one in Square-Enix catch this? Why did no one go "Hey, guys, the Kraken Club can hit a bunch of times, and the Dark Knight ability gives HP for each hit". Are they stupid? This is something a fourth grader would have caught.

All I see here is you vigorously defending Square-Enix being a horrible company in reguards with how they run FF11.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on October 04, 2008, 12:23:34 AM
Think of it this way.

You found God's Thunderbolt!  With this weapon, you can kill anything!  So you go around, killing shit, until finally you think--say, can this kill God?  So you take it over to God's house and kill him with it, but since he's God he just comes back to life and takes the Thunderbolt away.

Great.  You just had to go point out how awesome the Thunderbolt is and why you shouldn't be allowed to have it.

Yeah, I'd say those DRK were pretty retarded.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Alex on October 04, 2008, 12:52:02 AM
B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, Drek'Thalar, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drek is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drek? A Hunter gets Drek's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drek to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

I would personally find this easier to buy if you hadn't thrown a fit over Fel Reavers being made immune to the Universal Gnomish Remote or devs booting people from the game for going to unfinished areas and the like.

 ::(:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 04, 2008, 12:55:41 AM
B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, Drek'Thalar, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drek is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drek? A Hunter gets Drek's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drek to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

I would personally find this easier to buy if you hadn't thrown a fit over Fel Reaver's being made immune to the Universal Gnomish Remote or devs booting people from the game for going to unfinished areas and the like.
In short: I knew it was going to be fixed shortly after I tried it and in the server logs at Blizzard HQ it'd say "A player has controlled a L72 Elite Mob"
 ::(:

Except I didn't. :facepalm: I may have raged over some other mage change since no two devs can seem to agree which classes need a buff and which class need a nerf, (Although WotLK makes it look like they seem to be realizing the same thing the rest of the industry is: the hardcore are unpleasable, and unprofitable, so don't cater to them) but I never raged over Engineering, despite your near constant torrent of how Engineering is 'fucking useless', even after I made you ammo.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 04, 2008, 05:36:03 AM
Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I'm just explaining the mechanics of the trick and pointing out that its fucking retarded.  Are you saying it's not?

It may be "fucking retarted" to you, but to a whole bunch more people it's "A way to kill something no one else has done."

And it's now "disabled" because it is an "unintended mechanic" that makes the fight "too fucking easy" and Square gets the "last word" because they "develop the game".

You are insufferable.


You are acting way, WAY too butthurt about this. Seriously. It's pretty obvious Square hates their players in FFXI. THis has been the only kill, period, on this guy. You don't think there's something wrong there? The only actual kill involved something that they immediately took out?

Poor game design. Seriously, chill.

To reiterate, since the original post I made here was made in haste:
I see a number of things here
A) Very, VERY bad game design in reguards to AV. Things in your world that your players can fight should be able to be killed. If you give them something that cannot be beaten, they have no incentive to try, and in turn, no incentive to give you money.

B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, Drek'Thalar, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drek is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drek? A Hunter gets Drek's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drek to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

C) Horrible playtesting. Why did no one in Square-Enix catch this? Why did no one go "Hey, guys, the Kraken Club can hit a bunch of times, and the Dark Knight ability gives HP for each hit". Are they stupid? This is something a fourth grader would have caught.

All I see here is you vigorously defending Square-Enix being a horrible company in reguards with how they run FF11.

All I am seeing here is someone who not only refuses to acknowledge a simple concept of game balance, but is acting like its my fault she doesn't get it.  You have spent this thread acting obtuse and being gloriously indignant about it and yes, that's pretty insufferable.  There is nothing frothingly SE-fanboyish about me being annoyed with a total cunt.  If you honestly think a mechanic (ONE mechanic) that reduces fights from a matter of hours to a matter of seconds isn't blisteringly overpowered (and more importantly, renders irrelevant all those players out there that aren't KCDRKs), then is it that you can't see 6 inches past the edge of your sense of entitlement or are you just a sped?

See doom's comment Re: Night Elf Hunters and Newbie's Re: God's Thunderbolt.  KCDRKs are rewarded in many ways, just not this way.  The developers are the only fair arbiters of what is "fair" or not.  Yes, Drak kiting and KCDRKing both went live and were in the game at some point.  C'thun also used to spawn 800 tentacles in his stomach and Vashj would immediately repop after dying.  It's a good thing there are these things called "hot fixes".  The KC zerg, in my opinion, is the very definition of overpowered, and when Drakkisath started leashing so you couldn't kite him halfway through the instance while you offed his guards, well, I guess it's time for you to stop being terrible and learn how to do the fight at the intended difficulty level, isn't it? :( 

EDIT: You didn't come up with the Hunter-kites-Drak strat.  Rote repetition of another's strategy is not creativity; it is, in fact, just the opposite.


ps hi thad :>
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on October 04, 2008, 07:29:31 AM
B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, Drek'Thalar, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drek is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drek? A Hunter gets Drek's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drek to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

And, just so I get my turn at being an insufferable cunt: The Drek'Thar kiting strategy had nothing to do with Hunters or FD and was pretty clearly intended (lol yelling flavor text).  General Drakkisath was never mechanically hard enough to need the strategy though it did make the fight easier; people are just ridiculously bad at the game (lol Holy-spec Fortinbras outDPSing Rogues)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 04, 2008, 08:41:25 AM
A) Very, VERY bad game design in reguards to AV. Things in your world that your players can fight should be able to be killed.

Not necessarily true.  EQ had The Sleeper, and it was fairly popular.  There are countless examples back in the MUD days, too, but things were more chaotic in general then.

Quote
If you give them something that cannot be beaten, they have no incentive to try, and in turn, no incentive to give you money.

I'm gonna have to go with Paco Loco on this one: we're talking about one hidden boss in an MMORPG that's been steadily growing for half a decade.  Did you refuse to play FF7 because of Ruby Weapon?

Quote
B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever.

Removing the broken strategy and punishing the clever players who used it are two completely different actions.  We just had that argument, god dammit.

Quote
C) Horrible playtesting. Why did no one in Square-Enix catch this?

...

Lyrai.

You really do not want to go there.

There is nothing frothingly SE-fanboyish about me being annoyed with a total cunt.

...man, when someone lets you have the moral high-ground you just go BASE-jumping right off it, don't you?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Defenestration on October 04, 2008, 11:17:00 AM
A) Very, VERY bad game design in reguards to AV. Things in your world that your players can fight should be able to be killed.

Not necessarily true.  EQ had The Sleeper, and it was fairly popular.  There are countless examples back in the MUD days, too, but things were more chaotic in general then.

Well, the Sleeper was eventually killed... with a few expansions worth of preparation. If I recall, there was a big hullaboo when a GM despawned it after he realized that they were *actually going to be able to kill it.*
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 04, 2008, 12:11:20 PM
...man, when someone lets you have the moral high-ground you just go BASE-jumping right off it, don't you?

I've gotten way too old to take arguing about video games on the internet seriously enough to worry about how I look doing it.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Air on October 04, 2008, 12:28:11 PM
A) Very, VERY bad game design in reguards to AV. Things in your world that your players can fight should be able to be killed.

Not necessarily true.  EQ had The Sleeper, and it was fairly popular.  There are countless examples back in the MUD days, too, but things were more chaotic in general then.

Well, the Sleeper was eventually killed... with a few expansions worth of preparation. If I recall, there was a big hullaboo when a GM despawned it after he realized that they were *actually going to be able to kill it.*
Wow, that's some fucked up shit, bro. So what happened?Did the GM get fired?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Defenestration on October 04, 2008, 12:57:36 PM
Well, you have to realize. The Sleeper was originally designed to be completely and utterly unkillable. One time server event. Basically, at the end of a specific dungeon, there were these four bosses in the same room.

If all 4 are rendered dead, The Sleeper spawns and *fucks you up.* Hit for a ludicrous amount of HP for that point of the game, OHKOed at random, and a bunch of other shit. Then he flies around the whole world and kills every major boss and some other stuff. Pretty cool event, really.

A newer server set up, however, and all the major guilds agreed to not spawn the Sleeper. Always leave one of those four bosses alive. A bunch of expansions later, they bring pretty much everyone on the server and kill it. A whole group of clerics was chain rezzing out of combat to pull it off.

But yeah, DM saw what was happening and hit the "oh shit!" button and despawned it. A bunch of crying and forum posts later, SOE agreed that it was messed up, and reset it so they actually were able to go in and kill it.

And that's the overly long and boring story of what I was told happened.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Air on October 04, 2008, 01:00:08 PM
What happened when they killed it?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Alex on October 04, 2008, 01:05:33 PM
Did you refuse to play FF7 because of Ruby Weapon?

When was Ruby Weapon unkillable?

I mean, aside from when I first played it when I was 12 after it first came out and I was terrified that the Emerald Weapon would jump me even if I was surfaced in the sub.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 04, 2008, 01:11:10 PM
B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, Drek'Thalar, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drek is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drek? A Hunter gets Drek's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drek to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

And, just so I get my turn at being an insufferable cunt: The Drek'Thar kiting strategy had nothing to do with Hunters or FD and was pretty clearly intended (lol yelling flavor text).  General Drakkisath was never mechanically hard enough to need the strategy though it did make the fight easier; people are just ridiculously bad at the game (lol Holy-spec Fortinbras outDPSing Rogues)

I messed the names up. I did AV a whole bunch and loved it, and was forced to do UBRS a whole bunch and loathed every minute of it. I meant the UBRS boss, sorry.

Also: Echoing the earlier sentiment that paco is taking this shit way too seriously.
EDIT: To clarify: Please do not call me a "stupid cunt" when I would like to have an intelligent discussion about this.

And yeah, Ruby Weapon was never unkillable, Brentai.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 04, 2008, 01:11:45 PM
See, and I even originally did a strikeout and replaced it with "FF6 because of Guardian", but I figured I could get my point across without some jackass focusing on my choice of a more accessible metaphor.  Thanks for reminding me why I can't give you guys any credit.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 04, 2008, 01:12:12 PM
Quote
Also: Echoing the earlier sentiment that paco is taking this shit way too seriously.

That's sort of a coward's way of not admitting that he's right.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 04, 2008, 01:14:27 PM
Quote
Also: Echoing the earlier sentiment that paco is taking this shit way too seriously.

That's sort of a coward's way of not admitting that he's right.

Well, I'd like to discuss it more, Doom - I still feel that the way Square-Enix handled AV was really fucking poor. But if I'm going to get called a "stupid cunt" for attempting to discuss it, I really don't want to discuss it.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Detonator on October 04, 2008, 01:17:25 PM
Quote
Also: Echoing the earlier sentiment that paco is taking this shit way too seriously.

That's sort of a coward's way of not admitting that he's right.

Well, I'd like to discuss it more, Doom - I still feel that the way Square-Enix handled AV was really fucking poor. But if I'm going to get called a "stupid cunt" for attempting to discuss it, I really don't want to discuss it.

Well, then say that instead of pretending to be too cool to argue about vidya games.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 04, 2008, 01:18:57 PM
This has been a WFE thread.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Splash Tits.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 04, 2008, 01:19:15 PM
Quote
Also: Echoing the earlier sentiment that paco is taking this shit way too seriously.

That's sort of a coward's way of not admitting that he's right.

Well, I'd like to discuss it more, Doom - I still feel that the way Square-Enix handled AV was really fucking poor. But if I'm going to get called a "stupid cunt" for attempting to discuss it, I really don't want to discuss it.

Well, then say that instead of pretending to be too cool to argue about vidya games.
Done.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Arc on October 04, 2008, 01:31:32 PM
I've gotten way too old to take arguing about video games on the internet seriously enough to worry about how I look doing it.

No shit.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 04, 2008, 01:33:02 PM
Alright, then.  You're getting on to a larger issue of players using unintended game mechanics to trivialize content.  My stance is that it doesn't bother personally me because my priority when raiding is to get out of there as fast as possible but at the same time I do not begrudge developers for fixing those mechanics, because that's what they are: fixes.  I base this opinion on the fact that my general apathy has not completely eclipsed my sense of reason and rationality. 

My response to you saying "everything about AV is handled poorly" is "k".  Once again: nobody cares about AV and was happy to just ignore it completely until the Pandemonium Warden drama happened and for five minutes FFXI caught public attention.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Alex on October 04, 2008, 02:31:54 PM
See, and I even originally did a strikeout and replaced it with "FF6 because of Guardian", but I figured I could get my point across without some jackass focusing on my choice of a more accessible metaphor.  Thanks for reminding me why I can't give you guys any credit.

 :sadpanda: But all of us have played FF6, so it'd have been totally accessible!

And less likely for Lyrai and I to be  :slow:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 04, 2008, 04:18:22 PM
The fact that no one cares about AV because of how it was designed, to me, is a problem in of itself. It speaks of a severe disconnect between developer and player, and is in every way a bad thing to have.

My thing here, with Absolute Virtue, is that I see a company fixing a badly designed boss with an even worse designed fix. Couldn't they have just made Absolute Virtue immune to HP Drain? I'm to understand that Square-Enix has fully intended this boss to be beatable - apparently videos are floating around of the dev team fighting and beating it, except with the actual strategy parts missing or blurred out. If it's fully intended to be beatable, and yet no one's beating it without gamebreakers in 4 years, there is something very wrong there, and it turns a lot of people off. The whole Pandemonium Warden thing was very much bad press, in the terms that several dozen potential customers went "Wait, this game has bosses like THAT? No way, I don't want to play that"

Now, sooner or later, someone's going to bring up WoW and it's balance issues, so I'll state my opinion on that now.

WoW (Vanilla, to the latest patch before Burning Crusade:) A mess. The head designer is a man who goes by "Tigole", if memory serves. He headed one of the super uber hardcore guilds in Everquest. Every time new content would come out, they'd rip through it in seconds, and demand anything harder - and the developers would comply. 0.1% of the playerbase was being catered to, at the severe expense of the other 99.9%. He heads (headed?) design for WoW, and in turn, the best, brightest, flashy most hurty stuff was for that 1%, leaving the other 99% of us wondering what we were doing
Burning Crusade (up to the latest patch): Now we're getting somewhere. Someone internally realized that catering to 1% meant that 99% of the people are thinking about not giving you money. There are still hard things to do, but it doesn't require hours upon hours upon HOURS of raiding, discarding all that's fun about the game to make your numbers higher, and watching the clusterfuck of 40 people listening to a 12 year old with a Napoleon complex.

Wrath of the Lich King (Beta): The hard stuff is still there, but it's very clear Blizzard realizes they made a mistake basing the game off of Everquest (Cater to TEH HARDCOERS ONLEY) and are very much working to keep the actual large playerbase (Those who play it for 2-3 hours a night)

Full disclosure: 70 Mage, Played Beta, quit halfway into Burning Crusade. Did PvP up until Knight rank, did Blacksmithing/Engineering, raided Molten Core & Onyxia.

So yeah, I guess at the core of my argument is that I have a severe problem with too much content designed for a fraction of a fraction of the player base. Nothing against hard challenges, but some of it is just God damned ludicrous.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Defenestration on October 04, 2008, 04:20:59 PM
But... Naxxaramas was the best WoW raid ever. Right? :>_>:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 04, 2008, 04:29:12 PM
But... Naxxaramas was the best WoW raid ever. Right? :>_>:
No.
No. No. No. No no no no no no.

As a Level 70 Deep Fire Mage, I walked into Naxx and unloaded everything on the first trash mob I saw, doing well in excess of 10k damage, and it's lifebar did not BUDGE.
This was a TRASH MOB, and there are at least a few hundred of those fuckers in there.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Air on October 04, 2008, 04:38:08 PM
AV would be a cool esper though. ::D:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 04, 2008, 05:26:12 PM
Quote
As a Level 70 Deep Fire Mage, I walked into Naxx and unloaded everything on the first trash mob I saw, doing well in excess of 10k damage, and it's lifebar did not BUDGE.
This was a TRASH MOB, and there are at least a few hundred of those fuckers in there.

... Do you even know what raiding is.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 04, 2008, 05:35:44 PM
Quote
As a Level 70 Deep Fire Mage, I walked into Naxx and unloaded everything on the first trash mob I saw, doing well in excess of 10k damage, and it's lifebar did not BUDGE.
This was a TRASH MOB, and there are at least a few hundred of those fuckers in there.

... Do you even know what raiding is.
Yes, I do. Like I said, I've been in Molten Core and Onyxia. 10,000 damage would take a noticeable amount off of ANY of the mobs in there, barring the bosses. The fact that it didn't even budge what was the lowest of the low in that instance screamed "Gigantic Waste of Time" to me.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: sei on October 04, 2008, 05:37:18 PM
hi my name is mudflation and let me tell you a little story about how we keep grinding for more gear desirable
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 04, 2008, 05:44:59 PM
Sudden urge to play Progress Quest.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 04, 2008, 05:58:52 PM
Naxx stuff was completely killed when BC dropped and 20 minutes of effort got you a suite of things that outclassed it in every way.

The "Naxx-Level" items (if Naxx was still TEH TOP) are nowhere near as stupid hard to get now.

Well, except A'tiesh.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 04, 2008, 06:34:50 PM
Quote
As a Level 70 Deep Fire Mage, I walked into Naxx and unloaded everything on the first trash mob I saw, doing well in excess of 10k damage, and it's lifebar did not BUDGE.
This was a TRASH MOB, and there are at least a few hundred of those fuckers in there.

... Do you even know what raiding is.
Yes, I do. Like I said, I've been in Molten Core and Onyxia. 10,000 damage would take a noticeable amount off of ANY of the mobs in there, barring the bosses. The fact that it didn't even budge what was the lowest of the low in that instance screamed "Gigantic Waste of Time" to me.

Early trash in Naxx has about 70-80k health each.  they are designed to be killed by 40 people at 60.

12ish% off a mob from one person that's designed to be killed by 40 is a lot.




























































(Hello Kitty Island Adventure)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on October 04, 2008, 06:49:33 PM
Most wings of Naxx trash were not that serious for a full guild ready to go in there.  Certainly not along the lines of C'thun trash in AQ40.  At least, full Spider wing, everything you need for the trash quest, and a good chunk of Death Knight wing.

I'd certainly rather do Naxx than Molten Core and its lava packs and excessive, excessive length of aughaiughagiuh.  Or BWL and its lab packs.  Fucking goblins.

For most classes, true Naxx-level items weren't outclassed until somewhere in the 66-68 range in BC for DPS classes.  AQ40 items for other classes lasted pretty long also.  
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on October 04, 2008, 07:34:23 PM
Naxx stuff was completely killed when BC dropped and 20 minutes of effort got you a suite of things that outclassed it in every way.

The "Naxx-Level" items (if Naxx was still TEH TOP) are nowhere near as stupid hard to get now.

Well, except A'tiesh.

Lyrai; A very large portion of Nihilum was using tier 3 when they dropped Vashj. You are really, really underestimating the value of Naxxramas drops, particularly the set bonuses. IIRC, Warrior 5/8 basically completely elminated the need for hit in your gear set, and considering most of the early raid content is low damage, short enrage timer stuff, the extra threat more than makes up for the loss of EHP and avoidance.

Ironically, A'tiesh did not have incredible longevity when compared with the armor sets.

BTW, as for swapping weapons; Onyxia drops outclassed shit in outland until 64; Anything from late tier 2 or beyond could potentially last you until 70 if you weren't chainrunning instances for experience. Maybe if you'd done some raiding beyond the easiest shit to tackle in the entire game, you'd have some better opinions on how blizzard handled the item curving. Not that invalidating all the time we wasted on raiding wasn't a dick move, but honestly.

Quote
Most wings of Naxx trash were not that serious for a full guild ready to go in there.  Certainly not along the lines of C'thun trash in AQ40.  At least, full Spider wing, everything you need for the trash quest, and a good chunk of Death Knight wing.

I'd certainly rather do Naxx than Molten Core and its lava packs and excessive, excessive length of aughaiughagiuh.  Or BWL and its lab packs.  Fucking goblins.

For most classes, true Naxx-level items weren't outclassed until somewhere in the 66-68 range in BC for DPS classes.  AQ40 items for other classes lasted pretty long also. 

My guild went to MC back when we were learning Vashj ; A 20 person raid, all t5 equipped or better, and we still took something like 3 hours to clear the place. The trash is TERRIBLE. Not only does it take an eternity to kill, but it's completely bland and vanilla; nothing does anything actually interesting, with the possible exception of the core hounds, and any interest in the core hounds is quickly offset by the fact that you have to kill them over and over again until you kill the beast. And with the design of the place being so particular, and the HUGE gaps in ilvl from the front of the instance to the back, clearing it at the later levels of progression was... unreasonable. I'd love to know how guilds managed to clear that place in under 2 hours. Considering that 20 people at 70 is more or less the equivelant of 60-80 tier 2 geared people... I probably spent the better part of a month of playtime in that place, and we still never cleared it in under 5 hours at 60.



t paco; I would love to play FFXI again one of these days. I honestly found my experience there to be overwhelmingly pleasant - when I was actually fucking playing the game. My only complaint with FFXI was time spent LFG. It's good to hear an educated opinion, rather than one generated entirely from watching videos of the shit that S-E threw out for the insane/fanatical japanese who were complaining about there not being enough hardcore/unkillable shit in the game.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on October 04, 2008, 07:54:07 PM
I'd love to know how guilds managed to clear that place in under 2 hours. Considering that 20 people at 70 is more or less the equivelant of 60-80 tier 2 geared people... I probably spent the better part of a month of playtime in that place, and we still never cleared it in under 5 hours at 60

Fewer healers and never stopping to drink, mostly.  Kind of like the old LB runs, except for the DPS classes being able to DPS and the healers who weren't healing being replaced by DPS classes who could DPS.

The combination of Oxi, Bal, Fort and I did, way, waaaaay more percentage healing through MC than ever should have happened.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 04, 2008, 08:22:09 PM
t paco; I would love to play FFXI again one of these days. I honestly found my experience there to be overwhelmingly pleasant - when I was actually fucking playing the game. My only complaint with FFXI was time spent LFG. It's good to hear an educated opinion, rather than one generated entirely from watching videos of the shit that S-E threw out for the insane/fanatical japanese who were complaining about there not being enough hardcore/unkillable shit in the game.


It could happen if the children clap their hands long enough (signifyong you believe in fairies like me).  I'm on Hades.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on October 04, 2008, 08:27:21 PM
I'd love to know how guilds managed to clear that place in under 2 hours. Considering that 20 people at 70 is more or less the equivelant of 60-80 tier 2 geared people... I probably spent the better part of a month of playtime in that place, and we still never cleared it in under 5 hours at 60

Fewer healers and never stopping to drink, mostly.  Kind of like the old LB runs, except for the DPS classes being able to DPS and the healers who weren't healing being replaced by DPS classes who could DPS.

The combination of Oxi, Bal, Fort and I did, way, waaaaay more percentage healing through MC than ever should have happened.

The LB raiding situation is a perfect example of why it is truly a great thing that we left 40 man raids in the past.

Having to team up with KVN wasn't so bad on their good nights, but the CONSTANT influx of new people lead to some major bullshit. When there was 13 shaman on the DKP list and 11 of them were 'once a month' types from KVN, losing loot to ANY of them was infuriating. Especially when they were wearing skyshatter helm and full PVP gear. My final LB outburst might have been a little selfish, but in all honesty I was the only goddamn shaman in our raids who had the right to claim any of the loot in the first place. People coming to a raid in full greens or bad PVP gear with a mana pool of 4-5k buffed, and 40% overheal. And I got outrolled on Earthfury Shoulders like 11 times.

Irony: the first epic I got on my enhancement shaman on Ysera was Earthfury Shoulders. :lol:

t paco; I would love to play FFXI again one of these days. I honestly found my experience there to be overwhelmingly pleasant - when I was actually fucking playing the game. My only complaint with FFXI was time spent LFG. It's good to hear an educated opinion, rather than one generated entirely from watching videos of the shit that S-E threw out for the insane/fanatical japanese who were complaining about there not being enough hardcore/unkillable shit in the game.


It could happen if the children clap their hands long enough (signifyong you believe in fairies like me).  I'm on Hades.

They're doing a trial right now, so I'll download it and give it another shot. No promises I'm going to play in the long term, but this is certainly something to do for the next week while I'm waiting for word on whether or not I'm still going to have a job.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 04, 2008, 11:56:37 PM
I'd love to know how guilds managed to clear that place in under 2 hours. Considering that 20 people at 70 is more or less the equivelant of 60-80 tier 2 geared people... I probably spent the better part of a month of playtime in that place, and we still never cleared it in under 5 hours at 60

Fewer healers and never stopping to drink, mostly.  Kind of like the old LB runs, except for the DPS classes being able to DPS and the healers who weren't healing being replaced by DPS classes who could DPS.

The combination of Oxi, Bal, Fort and I did, way, waaaaay more percentage healing through MC than ever should have happened.


also a retarded amount of warlocks and a dedicated shadow priest (ME :)) who basically was along as their fluffer

and then i stole the guild's first Anathema and never went back :)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 05, 2008, 12:23:17 AM
Warhammer thread: Devolved into talking about WoW
FF11 Thread: Devolved into talking about WoW
WoW thread: ?????
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: sei on October 05, 2008, 12:30:22 AM
Devolved into talking about EverQuest / pre-expansion content.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Defenestration on October 05, 2008, 07:37:37 AM
But... Naxxaramas was the best WoW raid ever. Right? :>_>:
No.
No. No. No. No no no no no no.

As a Level 70 Deep Fire Mage, I walked into Naxx and unloaded everything on the first trash mob I saw, doing well in excess of 10k damage, and it's lifebar did not BUDGE.
This was a TRASH MOB, and there are at least a few hundred of those fuckers in there.
I mentioned this before, but at the time you were in just blues.

A fully T2/AQ geared raid would outDPS you by at least a couple hundred times. To drop Patchwerk before his 5 minute enrage for example, the raid needs to output around a consistent 12-13K damage a second over those five minutes.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on October 05, 2008, 11:05:04 AM
yeah, something to keep in mind; most of the top guilds at the time had multiple people in the 4 digit dps range. There was a few people pushing 2k. Consider that these numbers aren't reached at 70 until late tier 5/early hyjal. Raids back then were based on stacking consumables/flasks and poorly balanced raid/party buffs. One person's DPS was largely irrelevant, it was what their DPS turned into when they were in a fully stacked raid that made a difference. In the time it took you to do 10,000 damage, a raid mage in a buffed group with full flasks/cosumables could have done 40,000.

Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 05, 2008, 01:22:14 PM
I think the fury warrior record on patchwerk was about 1500 dps.

EDIT: I read the R&D forums a lot back in the day, Shinra.  700 dps was considered a lot.  The 1500 DPS video single-handedly resulted in Rage Normalization.  There was no Prot Warrior on the planet that could consistently hold aggro off 1k dps at 60 even if such a thing were generally possible.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 05, 2008, 02:21:27 PM
But... Naxxaramas was the best WoW raid ever. Right? :>_>:
No.
No. No. No. No no no no no no.

As a Level 70 Deep Fire Mage, I walked into Naxx and unloaded everything on the first trash mob I saw, doing well in excess of 10k damage, and it's lifebar did not BUDGE.
This was a TRASH MOB, and there are at least a few hundred of those fuckers in there.
I mentioned this before, but at the time you were in just blues.

A fully T2/AQ geared raid would outDPS you by at least a couple hundred times. To drop Patchwerk before his 5 minute enrage for example, the raid needs to output around a consistent 12-13K damage a second over those five minutes.


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Area+52&n=Lyrai
It may be Blues, but it's Burning Crusade blues, at least. :sadpanda:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 05, 2008, 02:39:13 PM
I've gotten better loot by sleeping through Karazhan clears.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 05, 2008, 02:40:07 PM
Never was able to do Karazhan before the 4th guild collapse that I was in happened. (Which is why I quit WoW. 4 Guild Dramas does that to a person)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on October 05, 2008, 02:52:32 PM
But... Naxxaramas was the best WoW raid ever. Right? :>_>:
No.
No. No. No. No no no no no no.

As a Level 70 Deep Fire Mage, I walked into Naxx and unloaded everything on the first trash mob I saw, doing well in excess of 10k damage, and it's lifebar did not BUDGE.
This was a TRASH MOB, and there are at least a few hundred of those fuckers in there.
I mentioned this before, but at the time you were in just blues.

A fully T2/AQ geared raid would outDPS you by at least a couple hundred times. To drop Patchwerk before his 5 minute enrage for example, the raid needs to output around a consistent 12-13K damage a second over those five minutes.


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Area+52&n=Lyrai
It may be Blues, but it's Burning Crusade blues, at least. :sadpanda:

You're still doing less DPS at 70 with your blues then an average raider at level 60 in Naxxramas.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Alex on October 05, 2008, 04:31:30 PM
Never was able to do Karazhan before the 4th guild collapse that I was in happened. (Which is why I quit WoW. 4 Guild Dramas does that to a person)

Not that there was any risk of us wasting our time raiding.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: sei on October 05, 2008, 04:38:53 PM
I quit WoW...Guild Drama...
^
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 05, 2008, 05:01:31 PM
:?:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on October 05, 2008, 05:18:00 PM
4 Guild Dramas does that to a person

LUCKILY, NOT TO A MESSAGE BOARD (http://www.instantrimshot.com/)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: sei on October 05, 2008, 05:22:51 PM
:?:
Next to content being exhausted, I'd wager that Guild Drama is one of the next biggest causes of players quitting.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 05, 2008, 05:24:45 PM
I'm sure the Level-30-Turning-Point threshes out most of the casual players, really.  Guild Drama would do it after that.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on October 05, 2008, 05:42:33 PM
I didn't make it to level 5 in FFXI.  Of course, I was playing as a Red Mage, so things were a headache.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on October 05, 2008, 06:05:26 PM
Quote
Level-30-Turning-Point

They removed this by dramatically lowering the amount of time needed to level to 60. Quests give more exp, levels take less in general, I think they even bumped DISCOVERED Experience a little.

With liberal use of rest(i.e. only playing on weekends) or using the new recruit a friend function(play together, get triple experience) you can hit 60 in the time it took original gangstas to go from 30-40.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Romosome on October 05, 2008, 06:10:57 PM
Quote
Level-30-Turning-Point

They removed this by dramatically lowering the amount of time needed to level to 60. Quests give more exp, levels take less in general, I think they even bumped DISCOVERED Experience a little.

With liberal use of rest(i.e. only playing on weekends) or using the new recruit a friend function(play together, get triple experience) you can hit 60 in the time it took original gangstas to go from 30-40.

since 2.3.0:

-Experience needed to gain a level decreased for levels 20-60
-Experience granted from quests increased for levels 30-60
-Most old-world 5-man instances were tuned down for lower-level characters
-All loot in all Azeroth 5-man dungeons was buffed to Blue-level quality
-The majority of Elite monsters in old world zones were made non-elite
-Experience and rep from dungeon quests was buffed even further

Patch 2.4.3 made mounts avaliable at level 30 instead of 40 and buffed experience from Outland dungeon quests.

Patch 3.0.2, which hits before Wrath, will also decrease the experience needed to gain a level from 60-70.

After Wrath hits I'm looking forward to getting a heirloom weapon and heirloom shoulders (10% bonus xp woo) to roll up a rogue alt or something.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on October 05, 2008, 07:25:05 PM
Heirloom arcanite reaper ftw.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Romosome on October 05, 2008, 07:25:57 PM
and once a fury warrior hits level 60 they can have one in each hand.

too bad Prot looks to be the superior levelling spec for Warriors once 3.0.2 hits.  No, really.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on October 05, 2008, 07:31:27 PM
As I understand it, Prot was the same way from 60-70. I'm not exactly shocked. Between rage starvation and a complete lack of healing/defensive abilities, fury and arms are a BITCH to level. My warrior will probably never make it to 70. I'm languishing in Nagrand, switching specs every half of a level to see which does better, and honestly none of them do.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Romosome on October 05, 2008, 07:40:05 PM
No, prot (and any tank spec) sucked to level through classic and burning crusade because they can't do any damage.  High survivability and mitigation and absolutely no killing power.  Most people level as Fury, due to high damage and rage generation.

In Wrath, tanks were retooled in several ways, and one thing that is very different is there's less "this ability does almost no damage but causes a lot of threat" and more "this ability causes decent damage and has an added threat component".  Tanks are encouraged to utilize Strength more as well, and overall DPS was buffed across the board for them.

The 3.0 prot warrior, instead of being a lumbering slowpoke outside of instances that can barely solo, can now wade through a bunch of quest mobs and shield slam one for 2000 damage while the others are killing themselves from hitting him (Damage Shield, attacks that hit or are blocked deal damage equal to 20% of your block value to the attacker), and after he finishes with that pack can wade right along to find some more with less downtime because he's got so much mitigation.

Also he can use Charge in Defensive Stance and while in combat, and it breaks CC, and he will probably be hitting you in the face with his shield in PvP instead of sitting at the mailbox bored to tears between raids.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on October 05, 2008, 09:48:43 PM
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Area+52&n=Lyrai
It may be Blues, but it's Burning Crusade blues, at least. :sadpanda:

Uh, that's ~70 +dmg more than my old level 65 alt mage.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dethecus&n=Maledy
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 06, 2008, 02:54:36 AM
hey sei

get WAR
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: sei on October 06, 2008, 11:30:58 AM
norn told me to get TBC and level a character for the coming of WLK

Then again, I'd like to, you know, graduate one day.

Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 06, 2008, 11:42:13 AM
As I understand it, Prot was the same way from 60-70. I'm not exactly shocked. Between rage starvation and a complete lack of healing/defensive abilities, fury and arms are a BITCH to level. My warrior will probably never make it to 70. I'm languishing in Nagrand, switching specs every half of a level to see which does better, and honestly none of them do.


Prot didn't become a viable soloer until 2.3, when Devastate started applying sunders.  At that point it became a DW spec and did pretty well.

Now it's a 1500 DPS solo swordboarding spec with 2 silences (one ranged), 2 stuns (one 3k+ crit damage, one AoE), and higher burst potential than Arms.



Yeah I don't think I'm going to bother with WotLK guys
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on October 07, 2008, 07:55:30 AM
Not to derail the thread, but...

There is something extremely fucked up about my psyche that calls me to be an FFXI apologist to its detractors and its harshest critic to its fanboys.

So, you just about convinced me to reactivate my account with that post.  So I know what I'm getting myself into, what are your criticisms?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Romosome on October 07, 2008, 11:37:56 AM
Technically that's rerailing the thread.

I'd be fine with a WoW/Wrath thread around here to discuss latest infos but it seems most people aren't interested.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2008, 12:08:27 PM
What are you talking about? Weren't like 4 people involved in that conversation? That's a fifth of the regular posters!
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2008, 01:45:22 PM
Not to derail the thread, but...

There is something extremely fucked up about my psyche that calls me to be an FFXI apologist to its detractors and its harshest critic to its fanboys.

So, you just about convinced me to reactivate my account with that post.  So I know what I'm getting myself into, what are your criticisms?

FFXI, maybe more than any other game I've ever played other than Baldur's Gate 2, is about learning The Rules.    It never tells you The Rules; you just figure them out on your own, and once you do, it's great.  You just can't ever forget The Rules once you learn them because if you do, you either die, or worse, spend hours, DAYS, just spinning your wheels without accomplishing anything.

The two most important Rules are:

1) If you're alone, no, you can't do it.  Don't even try.

and

2) Be nice to everybody, not because being mean will get you OMG REPUTATION, but because you never know when some random person will be useful.

A lot of people complain about the death penalty in FFXI, but honestly, it's jus there to teach you The Rules.  High levels dont complain about it because they don't die.  There isn't much incentive to get good at WAR, by comparison, because death is so meaningless I use it to reduce travel time.

Since I, at this point, have learned The Rules, my biggest complaint with the game is that it a PC port of a console game and thus the UI is beyond awful.  But you already know that. 

Money is easier than it used to be (the economy is under control so farming/repeatable questing is semi-viable (sup tiger fangs)) but it's still a pain.  This is another Rule: crafting is always better than farming if you're alone. 

Most of all, you're still really reliant on groups to progress quickly (lol @ me levelling THF) and accomplishing the big hurdles assumes you have access to a half dozen people who will drop everything to help you advance, when they have their own shit to do.  I personally feel really guilty when I have to get friends to drop everything to help me with stuff.

This brings me to my biggest complaint: the playerbase is the most boring bunch of unfunny carebear faggots I've ever seen.  Bring friends or you'll lose your mind.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 07, 2008, 01:57:50 PM
I was with you up to
carebear
::(:

And now my brain's filter is automatically discarding anything you say.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2008, 02:00:32 PM
Good thing I wasn't talking to you, huh?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Guild on October 07, 2008, 02:02:53 PM
hey it's pacobird!

what's up my beat-boxin' brother!

you a lawyer yet?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2008, 02:07:59 PM
yep :>


guild you acting like a literal retard at denny's is still my favorite internet memory


(ps hey guys we ran a search for "party" on the google and hit i'm feeling lucky)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on October 07, 2008, 02:15:52 PM
So I brought up this thread to a friend and mentioned the term of the use "Carebear" in it.
He had this to say:

Quote from:
While we're traversing this sensitive area, let's not forget that PvPers are sad children with daddy issues and raiders are lifeless basement dwellers with inflict naught but cancer onto MMOs.
I more or less agree, to the degree that said PvPers being talked about are the ones that spend 8 hours a day, 7 days a week on it.
The kind that use the term "Carebear" to describe anyone who doesn't PvP, in other words.
Yes, I'm aware FF11's PvP is, for want of a better term, 'lacking', but I've seen the term carebear basically extend to a general 'burn' the hardcore like to call anyone who isn't as hardcore as they are and who just want to actually enjoy the game.

The situation you posted about after this post Nor is what I'd call a 'retard.' Knowing what to cast and when should be a god damned requirement for being in a party.

(shut up, Alex, that only lasted until like LEvel 30 or so)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 02:17:56 PM
Doubt he means carebears in that sense when it comes to FFXI. People there get seriously offended when you remind them to goddamn cast barwatera because SCREWDRIVER KILLS THE FUCKING TANK.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 02:19:32 PM
I mean, ordinarily i would not care, but I LOST EXPERIENCE FROM THAT AND HAD TO WAIT FOR A FUCKING RES AND ENDURE YOUR COMPLAINTS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE THE 18NIN/5THF TANK INSTEAD OF ME

I WILL RAPE YOU TO DEATH
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 02:19:58 PM
HEY GUYS I DON'T KNOW WHAT UTSUSEMI RANK 2 IS

LET'S GET A NIN THESE GOBLINS LOOK PRETTY FUCKING TOUGH
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 02:20:19 PM
NO WE CAN'T JUST PARTY UP NOW THAT WOULD BE INSANITY

OOPS THE WHM HAD TO GO EAT DINNER GUESS I AM OUT GUYS
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 02:20:54 PM
FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKK
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Guild on October 07, 2008, 02:22:12 PM
(ps hey guys we ran a search for "party" on the google and hit i'm feeling lucky)

note: we did not get lucky
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2008, 02:35:08 PM
Doubt he means carebears in that sense when it comes to FFXI. People there get seriously offended when you remind them to goddamn cast barwatera because SCREWDRIVER KILLS THE FUCKING TANK.

I want you to reup so bad.





I wish I knew how to quit you. :(



(confidential to newbie: noro sums it up yet again.  ffxi is hard but it isn't nearly as hard as everybody seems to think it is.)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on October 07, 2008, 04:01:39 PM
I would say problem #1 with final fantasy XI is that I need to buy gil to have fun playing this game. :( It is so hard to make money early on. Nothing drops gil, and there isn't any gil yielding quests. Any tips here?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 04:02:53 PM
uhhhh yes there are quests. bat wings. sell them. also, auction crystals.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 04:26:42 PM
Sometimes I get the impression that FFXI would actually be a really easy traditional RPG, but the inability to control the majority of your party makes it near-impossible.

Then again, FFXII is brutal.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 04:35:12 PM
No, it just is not. Cast Decoy and Reverse on anyone you like. Congratulations! now you can beat the game at level one with no equipment.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on October 07, 2008, 04:50:03 PM
ATTN: Masochists out there reading this thread, just DYING to jump on the hot shit FFXI bandwagon: 14 day free trial, no credit card required (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3170425)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on October 07, 2008, 04:53:01 PM
Fuck, I'll give it a shot.  What server do the guys that still play play on?  Because I hear they do that CoX-Exemplar/Sidekick thing these days.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 04:58:02 PM
Okay, I'll admit, I considered this for... about 10 seconds.

Probably would have gone into the negatives if I ever had to QA the damn thing.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on October 07, 2008, 04:59:15 PM
I might do it. I don't see what harm 14 days would do.

He said, shortly before shooting up.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on October 07, 2008, 05:05:59 PM
god, is there any other way to get the client than Fileplanet?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: TA on October 07, 2008, 06:25:11 PM
Oh, are they finally letting you choose which server to play on?

hahaha FFXI QoL is such a piece of shit
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on October 07, 2008, 06:45:45 PM
iunno.  What, use that linkshell shit or whateverthefuck it is?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2008, 07:42:52 PM
you silly kids.

I'm on Hades.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on October 07, 2008, 08:55:54 PM
I might give it a shot once I hit 40 in WAR (and thus will never play it again) but mostly because I've barely even so much as ever looked at FFXI and it's not like I ever have anything better to do with two weeks of my life.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 09:08:53 PM
Oh FUCK you for making me want to play it, niku. God damnit.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2008, 09:10:57 PM
Must... Free... TRY!

EDIT: I say this, but I don't know when I'm actually going to do it.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on October 07, 2008, 09:57:42 PM
WHAT DID I DO THIS TIME THEY WERE THE ONES TALKING ABOUT IT FOR 7 PAGES
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2008, 09:59:02 PM
I really like Niku's AV right now.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 10:04:16 PM
well see i can't stand playing with NIGGERFAGGOTS

but if people (PEOPLE, MIKE, PLURAL) i know play

THEN MY SOUL WILL WANDER FOR ALL ETERNITY
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on October 07, 2008, 10:05:28 PM
I really like Niku's AV right now.

i still hate you.

you should like my avatar always.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2008, 10:11:28 PM
Sometimes I gotta love it more. When it puts a panicked cowering face next to ALLCAPS. To that end: "really like" instead of "like".
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 08, 2008, 04:20:20 AM
Oh, yeah; you can choose your server now.  Just type it in when it asks you for a server.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on October 08, 2008, 07:19:25 AM
Downloading the client now. Well, I will be in 20 minutes when it's actually my turn. Thanks, FuckuPlanet!

Will be going on Hades, I suppose
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Arc on October 08, 2008, 07:25:08 AM
well see i can't stand playing with NIGGERFAGGOTS

You're at about an eight right about now. We need you at about a five.

Yeeeaaahhh.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on October 08, 2008, 09:06:04 AM
Stuck in update hell. God save us.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 08, 2008, 10:03:47 AM
Yeah, get used to that. Maybe go get a book.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 08, 2008, 10:06:03 AM
imo start in bastok for supafast zeruhn mines levelanz
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on October 08, 2008, 10:44:12 AM
I can't decide if I should be a sexy hume female or a sexy mithra. The hardest part of MMOs is deciding whether or not I'm a furry.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on October 08, 2008, 10:57:21 AM
Is there ANY other place than fileplanet to get the fucking client?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on October 08, 2008, 11:02:36 AM
Is there ANY other place than fileplanet to get the fucking client?

Well, assuming the client isn't any different than the retail version (and I don't believe it is), you could probably just find a torrent for it, then get your trial code from the website.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on October 08, 2008, 11:09:36 AM
Actually the client is different the way you set up your account is through a trial version of playonline it seems. I thought i could do the same with my old disc but i couldnt register for the free 14 day trial.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on October 08, 2008, 11:13:27 AM
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
You're losin' me, Squeenix.
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 08, 2008, 11:53:32 AM
Oh, right, there was anything and everything that has to do with playonline, too.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on October 08, 2008, 12:32:18 PM
Buuuut don't you just put in the free trial code as opposed to the code in the book? Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know!
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on October 08, 2008, 05:52:48 PM
...I can't get more than 40 MB of this client.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: sei on October 10, 2008, 02:46:29 PM
Checking my vending mule, which S-E had the balls to charge me for (seriously, a monthly fee for an extra character slot? cocks) wound up being more fun than playing the game.

Which wasn't saying a lot.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on October 10, 2008, 07:53:36 PM
I've remembered something important!


I don't enjoy this game. It frustrated me before, and now I'm just too used to WoW. I want buttons on the screen to cast my spells!
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Classic on October 10, 2008, 08:02:18 PM
Panzy. I remember the days when you had to cast your spells through a command line. When you had to put in the X and Y coordinates of your spell! Those were the real days of MMOs. With blackjack and hookers.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on October 10, 2008, 08:41:23 PM
...you're making half of that up.  But can you tell which half???
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on October 11, 2008, 03:30:43 AM
...you're making half of that up.  But can you tell which half???
Id say the blackjack, and x&y coordinants.. Theres always going to be some hooker trying to cyber with you to get some gold.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on October 11, 2008, 03:56:40 AM
oh, crap.  I forgot about the cyberhookers.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on November 05, 2008, 08:01:02 AM
This just in:

December patch to revise/update low-level game and introduce "new systems", presumably to ease money concerns. (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Main_Page/News)

More as this story develops.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on November 14, 2008, 12:25:17 PM
First details of December update released: player-generated dungeons.  Unknown if this will be RPGMaker levels of control or randomized with player input.  Looks to be the former, but it would be a ridiculous hit to the game's vaunted difficulty if players were suddenly able to control the enviroments in which they fight when so much of the challenge comes from being largely at the mercy of said environments.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: EmaWii on November 25, 2008, 08:20:58 PM
So, out of guilt, I have ordered a 360 version of this game so I can play it before heading off to the Fan Festival. I actually have it for PC, but I couldn't take the controls. Does anyone have some noobie characters who would want to run around together? I'm gonna make a monk. Game's supposed to get here on Friday, but I don't think I"ll get to play really until the 1st...which, really only gives me like four days to try to get a feel for it. I guess I should've thought of this a while ago. Maybe too little too late.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on November 26, 2008, 10:49:11 AM
Why would you go to the Fan Festival if you've never played the game?  You are not going to have the slightest clue of what anybody is talking about.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: EmaWii on November 26, 2008, 12:31:33 PM
It's for work. I was there last year and did ok. It's more of a broad report on the event itself, as opposed to nitty-gritty details of the game.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on November 26, 2008, 12:45:44 PM
Oh, so your interest in the game is professional, then.  Fair enough.  I would be happy to play a low level character with you and tutor you in the mechanics of the game for a small consulting fee.  I'm serious.  PM me and we'll discuss the details.

...

SIKE

Everyone has a price, sure, but the amount of money I would have to be paid to explain everything you need to know about FFXI to establish context for something like Fan Festival in four days is probably going to be way more than you could expense to your employer.  As it stands, you are better off not playing at all, establishing zero context, and objectively reporting on them as the catass freaks they are.  Would be a much better read.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Sharkey on November 26, 2008, 06:59:17 PM
Just poking my head in. Still crazy hardcore, and by crazy hardcore I mean you can't do clever things to have extra fun times. Which is why my interest in MMOs has steadily dwindled in recent years. If I'm not herding everything in a zone for purposes of crowd surfing, giving fake-quest notes to level 1 mobs as a prank on the next newbie who kills the thing, leading an orc into my house and surrounding him with bookcases to keep him as an ornament, or kicking guys off the side of a mountain pass with a horse, well, the game just missed the point for me. I miss the kitchen sink approach to MMO design, which was more a lack of design than anything. Throw a bunch of people and a bunch of toys in a room and see what emerges. Then throw in more toys to keep it interesting.

But increasingly the focus has been on confining players to a straight and narrow path of progression, and when punishing them for deviating from it didn't work, more effort was put into making deviation impossible. Deviation, however, is the essence of adventure. If forced cooperation and measured progression were rewarding enough I wouldn't need escapist entertainment.

I was watching Gilliam's interpretation of Barron Munchausen the other night. That's what I like to do in these things. Get dropped into a ridiculous, artful fantasy, and then ride a cannonball across a battlefield full of people who didn't realize you could do that. And I guess the damn thing of it is that after years of finding new ways of riding cannonballs, they've nearly all been nerfed out of everything. They've become safe, but less exciting worlds for it, and I'm starting to feel old.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on November 26, 2008, 07:42:58 PM
Too bad the opposite end of the spectrum is Second Life.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Friday on November 26, 2008, 07:47:06 PM
A balance between sandbox and game must be reached!

No, I'm not talking about Spore.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on November 26, 2008, 07:51:03 PM
I know I say it a lot, but Star Wars Galaxies was pretty awesome about that.  There was a lot of non-killshit stuff you could do that didn't involve fucking with other people.

Also, you could fuck with other people.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on December 10, 2008, 10:57:01 AM
Square, you're neat. (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Fields_of_Valor)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on December 10, 2008, 11:52:55 AM
The important thing: Do you get Netherchocobo mounts after you complete a few months of those dailies?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on December 10, 2008, 12:02:35 PM
I really need to replace my absurdly out-of-date Netherwing mount.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on December 10, 2008, 12:33:23 PM
Incidentally, you can download the 2008 Collection (game + all four expansions) on the gamestop website for 20 bucks.  I downloaded WAR from there and it's way better than fileplanet, assuming anybody cares.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on December 10, 2008, 12:35:59 PM
Every fucking time I say that I'm done with FFXI forever, they introduce a neat update. I thought about destroying my CDs after I quit last time so I couldn't do it again, but if I can download the whole thing plus two expansions I don't own for $20, then that doesn't matter. And now Winter break is about to start with its long days of little to do. I... must... resist.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on December 29, 2008, 12:44:25 PM
/sh I humbly apologize for this shout.
/sh First off, this shout I have decided to do today is most selfish in nature, only for my own personal gain.
/sh As such, I realize I am causing everyone a great deal of trouble.  I beseech you to find it in your heart to forgive me.
/sh Also, this shout, being of my own personal matter, may cause discomfort or be unpleasant for some people.
/sh If you find this to be true, please do not hesitate to add me to your blacklist by typing /blacklist add <myname> or report me to a GM.
/sh I don’t mind if you talk behind my back and tell everyone about me on a bulletin board or some other thread.
/sh When I decided to make this /shout, I did so fully aware of the consequences it might bring and take full responsibility for my actions.
/sh At this time, I would like to talk about the reason for my /shout today.
/sh [Teleport-Holla] [Can I have it?]
/sh Thank you for your time and once again, I apologize most deeply for having /shouted.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on December 29, 2008, 10:30:50 PM
i really hope you have that macro'd
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on January 13, 2009, 11:17:55 AM
FFXI remains the king of timekilling games, which is to say games you can boot up and idly play while doing something else, like cooking dinner, a small workout, or just watching TV or reading.  There's something indescribably charming about gaining 2000 exp by setting my dude to auto-attack a Fortification in Campaign while I go cook lasagna.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on January 13, 2009, 12:00:55 PM
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd145/Brentai/progress-quest-screenshot.png)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on January 13, 2009, 12:02:21 PM
Revised: FFXI is Progress Quest with actual things to do with the exp you semi-bot.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Friday on January 13, 2009, 12:31:01 PM
holy crap brentai is a talking pony wearing plasma in his chest slot killing porn elementals

I knew it
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on January 22, 2009, 11:49:17 AM
Estimated 1/4 to 1/3 of NA/EU raiding community banned (http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/ffxi-advanced-player-discussion/68831-lm-17-a.html)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on January 22, 2009, 01:49:27 PM
Quote
Originally Posted by Apelila 
SE to the players: Our drop rates are supposed to be horrible and you will love them. Suck our dicks

OH GOSH I FORGOT WE WERE PLAYING FFXI FOR A MINUTE THERE
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on January 22, 2009, 02:16:42 PM
Estimated 1/4 to 1/3 of NA/EU raiding community banned (http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/ffxi-advanced-player-discussion/68831-lm-17-a.html)

Quote from: Square-Enix
We banned people who were duping items
Quote from: The people who duped
WAAAH IT'S NOT OUR FAULT WE EXPLOITED. IT'S SQUARE-ENIX'S FAULT
::(: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on March 01, 2009, 11:46:19 PM
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Nikumatic/unamused.jpg)

Well played, Square-Enix.

Well played.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 02, 2009, 06:08:35 AM
yayayaya

Hades server; we are starting in San d'Oria.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on March 02, 2009, 10:00:16 AM
you have ten minutes to tell me how to make my controls and resolution not all the way retarded before i delete the playonline folder.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on March 02, 2009, 10:14:58 AM
Estimated 1/4 to 1/3 of NA/EU raiding community banned (http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/ffxi-advanced-player-discussion/68831-lm-17-a.html)

Quote from: Square-Enix
We banned people who were duping items
Quote from: The people who duped
WAAAH IT'S NOT OUR FAULT WE EXPLOITED. IT'S SQUARE-ENIX'S FAULT
::(: :facepalm:

It actually pains me to agree with Lyrai, but for real guys.

What shocks me is that Squenix actually had the rocks to ban that many paying customers.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 02, 2009, 10:32:31 AM
you have ten minutes to tell me how to make my controls and resolution not all the way retarded before i delete the playonline folder.

You are playing a console game, so you're not going to be using your mouse.  You move with the number pad; go to the config option on the second page of the status menus for a rundown of the controls.  I'll explain more when I get home; it's way different from any other CGame I've played (due to no mouse) but it gets really intuitive really quickly. A decent rundown of the basic controls is here (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI).

As for resolution, http://wiki.windower.net/windower/latest .  You can change resolution/windowed mode through the General FFXI Config program accessible through the POL folder in your start menu, BUT Windower adds a bunch of other addons and shit that make the game better.

Quote
It actually pains me to agree with Lyrai, but for real guys.

What shocks me is that Squenix actually had the rocks to ban that many paying customers.

Only the truly retarded are saying SE was somehow wrong to punish dupers.  It's the inconsistency of the bannings (repeat offenders getting a warning, others who did it once as a guest on a friend's run and may or may not have known what the fuck was happening and getting no loot regardless eating permas) that had people irked.  At any rate, it's not like the super hardcore who ate it aren't already levelling new characters.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on March 03, 2009, 02:04:24 AM
okay, having it running in windowed full resolution with non hideous textures and a ps2 controller plugged in is helping some.  At least, it is easier to hit rabbits in the face with a tiny dagger.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 03, 2009, 03:43:54 AM
FUCK those rabbits
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 03, 2009, 04:27:54 AM
Notably, FFXI does not have the syncronized progression of WoW and its copiers.  The story and quests progress separately from leveling, so punching rabbits feels pretty damn pointless admittedly.   Partying is pretty fun though.  Also, it sounds like you've picked THF; I recommend playing something else.  Having leveled one to the mid-60s, it lacks any real way to deal damage outside of a party until 60, and even then, it seriously lags behind other damage dealing jobs.  I love the job but it is a pretty bad choice for a primary job.  All 19 others are probably a better choice for your first.

Speak to a gate guard (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/San_d%27Orian_Gate_Guard) to start the first mission for your nation.  The missions are the various storylines for the main game and its expansions.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 03, 2009, 05:31:27 AM
Actually I think he went RDM, which is a little better; i have a scroll of Blind i can pass along later.

You'll also want to talk to the NPC near the crystal at the exit to West Ronfaure in Southern San d'Oria -- she'll give you a little newbie quest chain that will get you, among other things, some good levelling food and a bonus EXP ring. When you get outside, hug the wall and look for  a book mysteriously hovering in space, and talk to it -- you can get hourly quests from it that grant free exp and gil, and you can also get it to cast long-duration buffs on you (regen, protect, even reraise!) after a few of these.

This is all just until we get to about 10, at which point we can hit La Theine Plateau and start moving on to bigger and better things, eventually getting dual-classing at 18.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 03, 2009, 05:36:24 AM
Oh, uh....RDM is the best class in the game.  Carry on.

Doom, when you're ten, go to one of the guards that gives you signet and tell him you want to spend conquest points.  You can buy the Royal Archer's Cesti, which are great fist weapons for your level.  Notably, once everyone's 10, we can start level-syncing.

I am going to level marksmanship a bit, which I have been seriously putting off, so that when we party together I can use acid bolts to speed things up.  And don't worry much about cash.  I'm going to send you guys some when I get home from lunch.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 03, 2009, 05:39:07 AM
Also, if you're in San d'Oria, there are a few quests you'll want to do to help you out early on -- there's Growing Flowers, (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Growing_Flowers) which'll take a few hundred gil to buy an item from the AH before you can get started but lets you teleport around town; The Brugaire Consortium, (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Brugaire_Consortium) which gets you a starter shield, helpful if your class can use one; The Pickpocket (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Pickpocket) which gets you a good warrior axe (which will also sell on the AH if you don't need it); and the combination of The Merchant's Bidding (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Merchant's_Bidding) and A Taste for Meat (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/A_Taste_For_Meat), which both give you free money for killing rabbits, which you're already doing.

Also, i am presently Norondor, level 10 mnk and level 5 whm.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 03, 2009, 05:48:06 AM
Oh, and there's no way i can say this enough: until you're REALLY REALLY SURE about the level ranges of everything in the area you're levelling in, be careful to check everything before you attack it. Two rabbits with the same name can be a couple levels apart and this can make a big difference.

Also, "Even Match" doesn't mean what it sounds like. It means "there's a 50-50 shot of you dying if you are at full HP going into the fight" generally.

Also also, assume that beastmen are one rank higher than it appears when checking them. Undead are two or three; never fight them.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 03, 2009, 05:57:33 AM
Why doesn't Salted Hare stack Ż\°_o/Ż
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 03, 2009, 06:01:52 AM
wiki.ffxiclopedia.org is the best database out there on this game right now; you can find everything you need on there.

Niku, I need your character's name prz.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on March 03, 2009, 06:09:21 AM
STOP MAKING ME WANT TO PLAY THIS AGAIN GOD FUCK YOUR EYES   :enraged:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 03, 2009, 06:13:28 AM
I kept trolling about it because 8 people were like MAN I KIND OF LIKE FFXI BUT I DONT WANT TO PLAY IT UNLESS EVERYBODY ELSE DOES

Which is totally reasonable.  But we're doing Chains of Promathia and it will be glorious.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on March 03, 2009, 06:46:01 AM
 :oic:  :fuckyou: :MENDOZAAAAA: :fukit:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 03, 2009, 06:51:15 AM
Noro finished his installation around 11 PM last night and had MNK at 10 before he went to bed.

I think you will find your experience in Vana'diel much less frustrating this time around~
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Superface on March 03, 2009, 07:37:31 AM
Noro finished his installation around 11 PM last night and had MNK at 10 before he went to bed.

HOLY SHIT I'm getting back in on this. I soloed a hume monk to 12 the last time I played a few years ago... took me about 3 real-world months at 12 hours a week. For real.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 03, 2009, 08:19:57 AM
Yeah I soloed a THF to 60 in about that time

You should look at the new exp charts for comparison, if you remember the old numbers for Easy prey off the top of your head:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Experience_Points   Scroll down a bit; big changes were to base experience.

EDIT: sent money to the bank of Noro; you can only send money to one person at a time as an anti-gilfarmer measure.  Once he takes it out of his delivery box, I'll send some to kasari.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on March 03, 2009, 10:01:42 AM
Niku, I need your character's name prz.

same as in WoW.  Level 4 RDM at the moment.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 03, 2009, 10:03:51 AM
Niku, I need your character's name prz.

same as in WoW.  Level 4 RDM at the moment.

k.

I recommend grabbing a bronze sword off the AH if you haven't already (daggers are ass) and browsing the selection at the magic shop in port sandoria, which will be marked on your map.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 03, 2009, 10:58:41 AM
Like I predicted (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=1370.msg47294#msg47294), I caved in and resubscribed a couple of months ago, but as soon as winter break ended I had absolutely no time to commit to the game. ...Or any game that isn't portable, for that matter. And now that my wedding is months away, I shouldn't be spending the $13 per month.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on March 03, 2009, 11:47:56 AM
When's the wedding?  You should webcam it to us. :D
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 03, 2009, 11:51:37 AM
Probably August 9th and it'll be outdoors, so I have no idea how I could do that.  :nyoro~n:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on March 03, 2009, 01:23:30 PM
At least share pictures.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Lady Duke on March 03, 2009, 01:29:56 PM
Yeah, pics :D
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 03, 2009, 01:30:06 PM
Sure, in a more appropriate thread.  :itsmagic:

FFXI related: Corsair was fun to play, until I had to level up Ranger and my Marksmanship skill and then start using guns. The damage is pretty good, but goddamn does it cost a lot of money. I even spent weeks building up my Alchemy and Goldsmithing skills to create my own bullets, but that only lowered the cost of a stack of 99 bullets to about 4000 gil instead of 6000 gil. I made a small profit selling them at the AH, but not enough to keep up with the amount of bullets I went through just leveling up. I still think that Phantom Rolls are a cool ability... I just wish that shooting wasn't such a waste of money.

Dancer sounds really cool, and the last thing I did a few weeks ago before canceling my account was to get the job and gain a level or two.

It'll never happen, but I would love a FFXI private server.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 03, 2009, 01:35:42 PM
Congratulations, Rosencrantz!


To be fair (and I think I've mentioned this elsewhere), the ToAU jobs, having come out 4 years after launch, assume to a certain degree that you're already established in the game before you level them.  PUP attachments are really expensive, BLU assumes you've got high level friends to help with your spells, and COR assumes you are either filthy rich or have leveled one of the four jobs with Crossbow access so you can get Marksmanship up without spending several million gil on bullets.  You see it a bit to a lesser degree with some Zilart jobs, like NIN and SMN.  As it stands, nobody really expects COR to do damage; once your skill's capped, you really only bust out the gun for Quick Draw and Light/Dark Shot. 

Not saying this is good design (and was since rescinded, as DNC and SCH are easy job quests with very little overhead), but there you go.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on March 05, 2009, 03:55:12 AM
I dont remember much about this game but moat carp. I spent way too much time fishing in this game for a fishing pole.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 06, 2009, 10:54:26 AM
Fields of Valor to be expanded. (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/2009_-_%2803/06/2009%29_Let_There_Be_More_Fields_of_Valor_and_Treasure_Caskets%21)  I could now see getting to max level conceivably not taking too much longer than it would take to get there in WoW.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 06, 2009, 01:54:09 PM
teleport back to your home city... from EVERY ZONE?  :scanners:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on March 08, 2009, 07:05:21 PM
Just got a part time job so ill probably be getting back into this. Free trials are not working so once I get my last unemployment WHM will be go go go.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 10, 2009, 12:30:50 AM
subjob get  :victory:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 10, 2009, 10:18:02 AM
so after going 12-18 WHM in one day and getting my subjob i jumped to war/mnk and went 10-21.
 
:HUGE: {VALKURM DUNES} {EXPERIENCE POINTS} {PARTY} {DO YOU NEED IT?}

Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on March 10, 2009, 11:16:00 AM
VALKURM DUNES
:ohshi~:  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 10, 2009, 12:14:05 PM
now now

valkurm's fine when there are like 4 dudes in it
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 10, 2009, 12:48:54 PM
the second i finally left my party i got three invites to qufim

aaaa
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 10, 2009, 12:52:59 PM
Rumors say people are riding Qufim all the way to Aht Urghan in the low 50s now.  So retarded.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 10, 2009, 12:57:40 PM
Christ. I always got sick of Qufim after a couple of levels. Kazham was always a pleasant change of scenery after that (although it was annoying in its own special ways).
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 10, 2009, 01:11:11 PM
i ended up turning down all the nice people because i don't remember how to get to Jeuno.  :nyoro~n:

MIKE HELP ME GET TO JEUNO AND ALSO DO THE CHOCOBO LICENSE QUEST
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 10, 2009, 01:50:14 PM
hit the wiki for maps bro

As for why people ride qufim so hard now, it's the last convenient camp that has FoV quests.  Beaucedine and Xarcabard are a tough trip, and Kazham may be nice and all but the Field Manual Refresh alone justifies trying to stick around.

This will probably change next patch as more zones get FoV manuals, but for now it's worth it to hang out in qufim as much as possible until 50, at least until you get to 37-40 and can hit the Ladybug/Colibri camp in Past Ronfaure.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 10, 2009, 02:42:52 PM
No moth axes on the sandy AH :(
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on March 10, 2009, 02:50:14 PM
i am still level 4.   :slow:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 10, 2009, 02:51:28 PM
if you get to ten things take off pretty darn quick let me tell you
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 11, 2009, 04:23:24 AM
IT'S CHOCOBO TIME MOTHERFUCKERS
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 12, 2009, 02:20:44 AM
Niku in case you were planning to ever log in again i found someone selling scrolls of somewhat pricey RDM spells up to about level 10 very cheap and mailed them to you, including Barsleep which is pretty fucking handy if your group wants to fight sheep
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 12, 2009, 06:00:52 AM
Yet another price drop. (http://www.gamestop.com/browse/search.aspx?N=0&Ntk=TitleKeyword&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntt=final%20fantasy%20xi)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Superface on March 12, 2009, 02:23:07 PM
Yet another price drop. (http://www.gamestop.com/browse/search.aspx?N=0&Ntk=TitleKeyword&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntt=final%20fantasy%20xi)

Huh, that's weird. Did that many people really buy PS2 hard drives?

The PS2 Vana'diel Collection is the only one that's Currently Not Available Online, and hasn't undergone the price drop. Mebbe they're really just trying to clear out inventory?

OH GOD IS THIS GAME DYING OH FUCK

EDIT: If so, Square, here's an idea: License PlayOnline to some other MMO maker so we can do something with it besides cursing it while trying to play FFXI. Aeria Games? Nexon? Surely you can find someone...
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on March 13, 2009, 12:18:05 PM
Hmm picked up a copy of the vanadiel collection today. Still installing and waiting.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 13, 2009, 01:14:10 PM
Yet another price drop. (http://www.gamestop.com/browse/search.aspx?N=0&Ntk=TitleKeyword&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntt=final%20fantasy%20xi)

Huh, that's weird. Did that many people really buy PS2 hard drives?

The PS2 Vana'diel Collection is the only one that's Currently Not Available Online, and hasn't undergone the price drop. Mebbe they're really just trying to clear out inventory?

OH GOD IS THIS GAME DYING OH FUCK

EDIT: If so, Square, here's an idea: License PlayOnline to some other MMO maker so we can do something with it besides cursing it while trying to play FFXI. Aeria Games? Nexon? Surely you can find someone...

Reason why no PS2 price drop: the NA PS2 disc has been out of print for years.

Reason why SE will not abandon POL: the largest group of FFXI players is, somewhat paradoxically, the PS2 crowd.  The majority of Japanese players play on the PS2 and the disc hasn't been discontinued over there, to the best of my knowledge.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 13, 2009, 02:46:48 PM
worst valkurm dunes group ever :(

OTOH, PLD17 \o/
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 17, 2009, 10:40:36 AM
April update to introduce something like WoW Jewelcrafting/Enchanting (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/2009_-_%2803/17/2009%29_More_Malmage_from_Your_Equipment_with_Augmented_Items%21), which could either prove completely useless or totally gamebreaking depending on how it's implemented.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on March 17, 2009, 11:19:58 AM
I would expect underwhelming, given most gear bonuses.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 17, 2009, 11:53:14 AM
The issue is that a few points of a given stat can make a huge difference in this game.  1 accuracy translates into .5%, and stat modifiers on weaponskills coupled with how freely you can swap gear in and out could make a huge difference.  For instance, the final Samurai weaponskills get huge modifiers from STR, to the point that one point of STR equals about 20 damage.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on March 17, 2009, 11:51:17 PM
Also monks in late game that spam chi blast can have a even higher mnd stat. Paco already stated that but if say there were haste enchants, one of the smallest percents came be pretty big.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on March 25, 2009, 12:50:14 PM
Happy day, went 1/1 VE and 1/1 Leaping Lizzy. O.kotes your next.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 26, 2009, 05:51:29 AM
White Mage to become god mode. (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/4266/detail.html)

Auspice in particular is fucking incredible.  Monsters (including boss monsters) use their special abilities based on the amount of TP they have, and their primary means of gaining TP is from players hitting them.  A spell that reduces the amount of TP everyone feeds monsters is potentially game-breaking.  This is to say nothing of CURE SPELLS APPLYING STONESKIN WHAT THE FUCK.

Red Mage and Black Mage updates still to come.  Buffing the back line buffs everyone.  The April update is shaping up to be a WoW 2.0 or 3.0 sea change.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 26, 2009, 06:38:02 AM
Holy FUCKIN' shit

So much for Scholars as the end-all, be-all casters, eh?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 26, 2009, 06:45:57 AM
Interestingly, there's nothing here about increasing WHM MP efficiency, which was the primary source of penis envy when looking at RDM and SCH.  So I think for overall efficiency, RDM and SCH will still be superior, but WHM is totally the go-to healer for overall fight control now with the ridiculous status removal abilities and TP control.  That's a solid niche, because it finally allows RDMs, SCHs, and WHMs to all compliment one another in a major fight: RDMs as the mana battery, WHMs for keeping melee up and moving, and SCHs as a midway point between the two.

Again, RDM is in line for a buff, and smart speculation says some sort of late-game super-enelement spells because there really is not much else to give them.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 26, 2009, 06:51:53 AM
Giving the entire party Subtle Blow seems like a good way to improve mana efficiency to me!
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 26, 2009, 06:54:28 AM
Well, yeah, anything that reduces damage intake is by definition a MP efficiency buff, but it's nothing compared to Refresh and Convert.

Waiting for one of the RDM "buffs" to be "Convert now available at level 35".
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Jkid on March 26, 2009, 06:19:30 PM
I got the 2008 collection last week for the PC, even though I use the PS2 one. I haven't installed it yet. I need to clear my Hard Drive off some things.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on March 31, 2009, 01:10:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhQg7PC3CDY&feature=channel_page
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 31, 2009, 05:36:31 AM
Made funnier by the announcement of new enspell ranks.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 04, 2009, 06:02:51 PM
Eisenplatte get!  :victory:

... as well as a couple smokin' deals on Kampfplatte because there were like 25 kampfschuhs and kampfhentzes up and almost none of the normal-quality versions so the +1s were cheaper! :victory: :victory:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 06, 2009, 10:32:22 AM
As you pass 40, you may consider soloing a good ways through the next bunch of levels so as to make some cash.  From the low 40s to 50 (I would say start around 42 or 43), do tiger training regimes in Beaucedine to get fangs for the repeatable quest.  At 50, go to East Ronfaure in the past and kill Ladybugs for their wings for the next 10 levels; they are 45-47 and only have like 1200 HP.  It's glorious.  I was doing 6.5k/hour solo as a THF in the 50s.

EDIT: In the short term, when you hit 32 or 33 you might want to run around punching those Lycopodiums you found yesterday while LFG.  You're in a really convenient spot for joining groups that way, and the hella weak MNK-types can help you train up your all-important Shield skill.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on April 06, 2009, 03:18:10 PM
Hit 45 monk yesterday earned my brown belt.  Managed to sell ram skins for 1k a piece while hunting for my purple belt quest. 30k an hour got me my snipers ring in no time flat. The fact I have a pair of ochiudos and can sell em off anytime for 600k is tempting but damn +20 attack is hard to give up. Its like holding a kraken club. Then deciding to own face with it...or sell it for 30 mill.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 07, 2009, 04:59:48 PM
OH GOD THE PARTY INVITES NEVER STOP COMING I CAN'T EVEN REFRESH MY SIGNET
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 07, 2009, 08:08:11 PM
{Paladin}35! {Auto Refresh} {fun} {excitement}
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 07, 2009, 08:54:38 PM
Patch tomorrow!
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on April 08, 2009, 01:44:14 AM
Cant wait, I leveled up to 50.. So close to goal.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 08, 2009, 06:07:20 AM
Envy, are you on Hades?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 08, 2009, 07:36:39 AM
Why is Roar so fucking hard to interrupt  ::(:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on April 08, 2009, 04:48:34 PM
No im still on fairy where I reactivated my old account. Ive got tons of friends and my linkshell apparently moved on up to dyna. Im still the leader?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 09, 2009, 06:54:08 AM
The mini-expansion is really short (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:A_Crystalline_Prophecy_Missions), and apparently very easy for how stupid awesome the rewards are.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 09, 2009, 08:04:47 AM
I'd buy it but i'm poor
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on April 10, 2009, 01:46:41 AM
So Square-Enix thinks I signed up for this and is now charging my credit card.

How, exactly, do I log into their site when the last time I used a PlayOnline ID was a few months ago?

EDIT: Turns out it was just Credit Card Fraud.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 12, 2009, 08:16:31 PM
I am fucking cursed. Killed three times soloing EP tigers tonight. I swear to fuck.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on April 12, 2009, 08:17:18 PM
WHOOPS I BETTER DELETE THIS CHARACTER TOO
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 12, 2009, 08:21:31 PM
AND AN EP BA :)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 12, 2009, 11:19:40 PM
And then of course i got a really great Yhoator jungle group and got WAR35! :D :D
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 12, 2009, 11:24:04 PM
Then immediately died and levelled down fighting another easy prey tiger. I quit forever.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on April 13, 2009, 03:35:20 AM
Learn to love yhoator till your around 50+. Getting a higher level group beyond 40 is insane. Later on you can just find a skillup group.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 13, 2009, 04:32:10 AM
{Summoner} {Experience points}
{party}
{Korroloka Tunnel}
{Do you want it?}

{You can have this.} 50,000XP/HR



:)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 13, 2009, 05:48:51 AM
I need NIN and SAM and my aht urhgan pass and shit
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 13, 2009, 06:01:51 AM
Internet went down Thursday because someone is stealing it, apparently.  Supposed to get rewired today.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 13, 2009, 01:11:27 PM
oh, awesome
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 14, 2009, 10:04:44 AM
lol, comcast
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 16, 2009, 02:35:18 PM
today's mission: get passport to Al Zahbi. IT'S FARMING TIME!
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 16, 2009, 11:27:08 PM
Actually i found out when i got the gusgen mines that it's my week for RSE. Magna Chausses get! :victory:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 17, 2009, 05:32:59 AM
I guess if i had to describe the Blue Mage flag quest in one word, it would be "faggoty cocks in your hair and face forever."
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 21, 2009, 10:14:16 PM
Died twice trying to get my RSE in maze of shakhrami; fuck this stupid place.

Mike did you get your internet back
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Bal on April 21, 2009, 10:32:50 PM
ITT: Norondor play FFXI with the only other person in the world that plays FFXI, Norondor.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Brentai on April 21, 2009, 10:34:08 PM
He signed up for FFXI twice by mistake.

Now he's...

ON THE PHONE WITH SQUARE-ENIX'S BILLING DEPARTMENT.

FOR MONTHS.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 21, 2009, 10:41:36 PM
It was funny because eventually when i got through to someone who could cancel my account, it had already been canceled on its own for no clear reason.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 22, 2009, 06:33:48 AM
internet is back

did you hit 50 yet?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on April 22, 2009, 07:06:06 AM
G1 sucks.. I hate ninja tanking. I still hate the dunes no matter how fast I get out of there. I dont care if you have a PL utsu tanking still sucks.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on April 22, 2009, 10:18:40 AM
The only nice thing I can say about the dunes is that they are right next to Selbina, which has the best music in FFXI (pre-WotG, anyway).
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 22, 2009, 10:31:08 AM
I am partial to Kazham's music myself.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on April 22, 2009, 10:40:42 AM
Yeah, maybe I should have just said pre-expansions or something.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 22, 2009, 11:10:44 AM
internet is back

did you hit 50 yet?

i should be 40 today. I've been farming and levelling various useful subjobs a lot. ... do i need to be 50 for something? D:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 22, 2009, 11:12:41 AM
1) Limit Break 1, with which I assume you want my help.  I'll do it for you tomorrow afternoon.

2) Assault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(!)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 24, 2009, 01:26:40 PM
I tried to defeat a malboro and was devoured for my hubris.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 24, 2009, 07:19:47 PM
yeah there is shit that does not fuck around
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on April 25, 2009, 08:29:43 AM
There is a reason you beat up crabs forever.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 25, 2009, 05:42:33 PM
I actually killed like three of them as DNC/NIN, but THOSE ones didn't use Bad Breath. Probably should have had the wherewithal to remember that this is a final fantasy game and you do not mess around with malboros ever
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: McDohl on April 26, 2009, 07:43:21 AM
Can a Blue Mage learn Bad Breath?

'cause that'd be awesome.  I'd like to roleplay a blue mage.

"Hey, come with me!  I must expand my knowledge of monster abilities!  Ooh, a Bomb!"
"OH DEAR SWEET JESUS TACKLE THE BLUE MAGE"
*Exploder*
TPK

:D
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on April 26, 2009, 08:06:11 AM
You can! (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?ffspell=658)  Only really bad effects are silence and paralysis.  Any decent effects will probably work for shit against mobs, anyway.  JUST LIKE EVERY FF   ::(:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 26, 2009, 09:11:56 AM
Everyone one of those effects is good, sir! However, it has like a 9-second cast time, so some of them are irrelevant most of the time (bind? uh ok). It does decent earth damage though.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 26, 2009, 02:12:25 PM
Slow, weight, and Blind are all probably more useful in any situation in which you'd use bad breath.  Slow is probably the most important debuff of them all at high levels, because most slow effects stack with each other.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 28, 2009, 06:05:34 AM
Right after getting my Paladin AF weapon, I randomly changed to Dancer and got an invite to a party in East Ronfaure (S)... where i jumped from level 35 to level 42 in less time than it took to eat 6 pieces of tuna sushi. Seven levels in three hours? {Yes, please.}
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on April 28, 2009, 07:44:41 AM
less time than it took to eat 6 pieces of tuna sushi ... three hours
:slow: rondor
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 28, 2009, 07:48:23 AM
But that's how long it taaaaakes :(

(however i did take so long getting to the group that it nearly disbanded before i arrived)

(partly this was because i went to buy cake and eat cake)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on April 28, 2009, 07:52:47 AM
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 29, 2009, 08:35:49 AM
Limit Break 1 complete!  :victory:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 30, 2009, 09:50:35 PM
Slaughtered by a Cactuar. Note to self: Don't fuck around with classic FF monsters!
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 01, 2009, 12:29:59 PM
oh god is it G2 time already D:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on May 04, 2009, 06:17:09 AM
Dan, you're most certainly high enough to solo exp on ladybugs in E Ronf S now.  Go check it out when the moon's close to full or new and make some $$$.  They only have like 1200-1500 HP, too.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Ted Belmont on May 05, 2009, 08:15:56 AM
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/BBLegs/DownloadFOREVER.jpg)

 ::(:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 05, 2009, 08:53:30 AM
yeah that sucks a little, sorry.

come play on hades! :D
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Ted Belmont on May 07, 2009, 09:48:59 AM
No WASD controls?  ::(:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on May 07, 2009, 10:11:44 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on May 07, 2009, 10:20:29 AM
I recommend using a controller if you've got one, preferably a Dualshock via USB.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 07, 2009, 11:47:19 AM
or just use the numpad. takes about a day to get used to, but it is a perfectly useable control solution.

useful, perhaps, to note that F8 will auto-target the nearest monster within view (i.e. more or less the direction you're facing). Also, if you are on Hades, what is your character name and where'd you start?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Ted Belmont on May 07, 2009, 12:58:17 PM
I'm on a netbook, so no numpad.  :nyoro~n:

My character is named Vinson, human RDM, started in whatever that mining town is called.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Doom on May 07, 2009, 01:03:05 PM
So, what, Click To Move?

Kill yourself.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 07, 2009, 01:36:07 PM
you can put it on "compact" mode, which is for laptops
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 08, 2009, 08:10:58 PM
YO TED HIT ME UP ON AIM WHEN YOU'RE ONLINE OK BRO
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 09, 2009, 08:13:53 PM
I think i would have a lot less of an issue with levelling Ninja if Utsusemi didn't make a really loud farting noise for no clear reason.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 09, 2009, 10:23:53 PM
Firefly (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Firefly) AND Phlegethon's Trousers (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Phlegethon's_Trousers) in one night? everything's coming up ninja!
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on May 10, 2009, 06:57:52 AM
Phlegethon's Trousers are hilariously the best SAM WS pants in the game if you have a SCH.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 10, 2009, 11:21:24 AM
TIME TO GIVE MY MOOGLE SOME BUTTER
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 10, 2009, 11:21:30 AM
IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on May 10, 2009, 11:21:43 AM
(also a shrimp lure)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on May 10, 2009, 05:44:43 PM
if you know what i mean
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on May 10, 2009, 05:45:07 PM
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=babydick
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Ted Belmont on May 10, 2009, 05:47:34 PM
Yeah so I decided to play God Hand instead
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on July 21, 2009, 12:20:37 PM
(http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo23/loltreg/yonin_GM.png)

context (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Yonin)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on July 21, 2009, 05:26:28 PM
holy shit
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on July 22, 2009, 10:40:53 AM
The awesome thing is that people are not actually sure it isn't a bug so BlueGartr (the FFXI Elitist Jerks) is all OMG DONT USE YONIN SE WILL BAN YOU

i swear this game has gotten hilarious
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: on July 23, 2009, 11:05:54 AM
So Square-Enix thinks I signed up for this and is now charging my credit card.

How, exactly, do I log into their site when the last time I used a PlayOnline ID was a few months ago?

EDIT: Turns out it was just Credit Card Fraud.

Or not. (http://kotaku.com/5302333/square-enix-sued-for-5-million)
Quote from: TFA
    The deceptive advertising, unfair and undisclosed business practices, and concealment concern, among others:

    i. Licensing of the online games software disguised as a sale;
    ii. Monthly fees ("fees") to play the online games;
    iii. Penalties for late payment of the fees;
    iv. Interest charges for late payment of the fees;
    v. Charges while the online game account is suspended;
    vi. Termination of the right to use the online games for late payment of the fees;
    vii. User restrictions and conditions related to the online games;
    viii. Termination of game data for payment of the fees.
(http://doom.pyoko.org/heftylol.jpg)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on September 22, 2009, 04:36:38 PM
Beastmaster is really, really fun now that the game is easy as hell.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on September 22, 2009, 05:02:14 PM
My ex has been paying for my account for two years  :perfect: and beastmaster is SUPER FUN and I have dreams about having crawler pets.


But the game was a lot more fun when I basically lived with 5 people who agreed that staticking for hours on a Saturday night in the living room was the most fun that could be had.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on September 23, 2009, 01:52:35 AM
Damnit mce i did not know you played this

what server btw
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on September 23, 2009, 03:16:08 AM
My ex has been paying for my account for two years  :perfect: and beastmaster is SUPER FUN and I have dreams about having crawler pets.


But the game was a lot more fun when I basically lived with 5 people who agreed that staticking for hours on a Saturday night in the living room was the most fun that could be had.

That this is true is why FFXI ruins lives.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on September 23, 2009, 05:30:47 AM
Damnit mce i did not know you played this

what server btw
Leviathan! Let's play!

Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on September 23, 2009, 05:53:41 AM
Actually, pretty much everybody I know on Hades quit the game a while ago (I have pearls/sacks to no less than 4 completely empty linkshells) so if you've got a fairly stable group of folks I'd be happy to transfer.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on September 23, 2009, 05:57:23 AM
I don't have a group at all anymore, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on September 23, 2009, 06:04:49 AM
That's alright, too.  Literally everybody I knew on Hades is gone so I've been looking for an excuse to leave, assuming you're still interested in playing.

dnrl reactivate and transfer to leviathan with me

we will have adventures :)

(we need sea okay)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on September 23, 2009, 06:12:24 AM
Things are crazy at the moment but I'll try to reinstall it this week and let you know when I succeed!  (This may take one million years, judging from the last time I tried to install it)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on September 23, 2009, 11:43:30 AM
... well, you'll understand if i'm reluctant to delete my paladin.

not that i won't, but.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on September 23, 2009, 11:51:28 AM
I'm a warrior with an axe! :hi5:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on September 23, 2009, 12:10:45 PM
I have a almost 40 monk that sit's around doing nothing wearing some ochiudos kotes. My server pretty much died. If one of you want some Ochiudos I could give ya them.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on September 23, 2009, 12:31:21 PM
Well, not to sound like a broken record but if we consolidated location (Noro, FFXI has open server transfers and I would not mind fronting the cash) it wouldn't matter how dead or not dead Leviathan was, because one of the game's biggest strengths is that you can do literally 90% of the content at all levels of the game with like 6-8 people.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on September 23, 2009, 12:33:40 PM
oh, i didn't think that SE POL would actually have implemented anything good or useful.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on September 23, 2009, 12:34:43 PM
I've heard that the level sync is actually really good!
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on September 23, 2009, 12:39:20 PM
It is in fact the feature that saved the game.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on September 23, 2009, 12:43:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXu7wkzaC8

Or ruined it, depending on who you ask.
















Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on September 23, 2009, 12:44:23 PM
OH MY GOD A USE FOR SUMMONERS

THIS IS IT; SQUARE-ENIX IS FINISHED
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on September 23, 2009, 12:59:54 PM
Well, there was a concern that since parties could now be formed across a wide spectrum of levels, there would emerge the sort of retarded min/max WAR OR SAM ONRY OH AND WE NEED A BRD OR COR OR ELSE IM NOT GOING shit one sees in merit parties, and that less optimal exp/hr jobs would be left in the cold.  I really haven't seen it materialize but then I've been leveling COR recently so the invites come fast (20 levels in 3 days lololol) and I'm still never getting invites on THF so maybe????
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on September 23, 2009, 01:02:31 PM
The worst thing i've run into is all the paladins levelling something other than paladin for god's sake who have already got max enmity merits playing DD jobs FUCK YOU ALL
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on September 23, 2009, 01:02:57 PM
oh god i'm a ffxi retard
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on September 23, 2009, 01:07:21 PM
Is FFXIV out yet?  :;_;:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2009, 09:21:48 AM
Apparently the total value of my gear in the current market was 12 million gil.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2009, 09:42:14 AM
holy
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2009, 09:43:41 AM
Hagun alone was 3 million.

Basically what I'm saying is that I'm out for good.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on October 07, 2009, 10:10:56 AM
YOU'RE RICH
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2009, 10:45:55 AM
Basically what I'm saying is that I'm out for good.

sure thing
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2009, 10:52:12 AM
account is deleted bro
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2009, 10:57:15 AM
i believe you
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2009, 10:57:28 AM
i mean it's not like they have account recovery services now
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2009, 10:57:43 AM
or that you're likely to backslide in a moment of weakness and reup or anything like that
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2009, 11:00:18 AM
I mean I actively deleted Scaevola.  You can't recover characters you actively delete; I did the same thing with Melendi years ago and couldn't get her back.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on October 07, 2009, 11:11:16 AM
welcome to the clubhouse brah
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2009, 11:19:53 AM
the problem is nobody posts about this game but me :(
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Bal on October 07, 2009, 11:24:19 AM
Lets all play FFXIV, which by the way is so far along in production that there are rumors going around that Squeenix is pissed off at the XIII team, because their game  is taking so fucking long that XIV might be ready to launch first
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on October 07, 2009, 11:31:33 AM
Haha, really?


Would lend credence to the speculation that XI is a seven-year-long beta test for XIV.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2009, 12:05:24 PM
I would be totally ok with that, in the end
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on October 07, 2009, 09:56:42 PM
Hey, some new info on the FFXIV classes. (http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on October 08, 2009, 01:37:21 AM
Quote
To take an example, let us follow a day in the life of Leeroy.

oh SNAP
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on December 16, 2009, 05:01:47 PM
FF14 beta signups have begun! (http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on December 16, 2009, 05:56:02 PM
If I don't get in I'm gonna kill myself
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on December 16, 2009, 06:03:02 PM
let's make a suicide pact
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on December 16, 2009, 06:34:11 PM
let's make a suicide pact
(http://www.newprophecy.net/suicide_club.jpg)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on December 16, 2009, 09:57:46 PM
God help me, I'm in on this. :loser:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Niku on December 16, 2009, 10:00:22 PM
I signed up :(
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on December 16, 2009, 10:10:06 PM
Me too, god help me.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on December 16, 2009, 10:42:29 PM
If I must..again..
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Kayma on December 17, 2009, 05:46:00 PM
Absolutely signed up. I can't wait to have my heart broken again.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on December 17, 2009, 10:54:31 PM
I almost hope I do.  It's probably better, that way. :nyoro~n:
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on December 18, 2009, 01:37:07 PM
Signed.  Hopefully a bunch of us can bro out in the beta for the solo-friendly ff mmo.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on December 18, 2009, 05:01:05 PM
solo-friendly

we'll see about that
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on December 23, 2009, 04:50:55 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion the "solo friendly" aspect of FFXIV will play out like the "solo friendly" classes in FFXI did. The second I start hearing conversations about kite soloing for one tenth the exp rate of grouping, I'm out forever.

Prove me wrong, Square-Enix. I'm begging you.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on December 23, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
Even when I had a stable bi-weekly group in FFXI, it was still a huge hassle. Having to schedule play times like that just kills the fun for me and makes it a chore. If I can truly play the game whenever I want and not take a significant hit to my exp rates or whatever, then they've got me playing for a long time.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 15, 2011, 10:10:58 AM
Quote
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

As I mentioned in GND, FFXI's servers have been taken down to reroute electricity after the earthquake.  In light of this downtime, I figure now might be as good a time as any to give an update to anyone curious about the radically-changed state of the game; most MMOs periodically change to sell NEW!! and BETTER!! mechanics to fresh meat, but in the past year FFXI has gone through the most radical changes a major MMO has seen short of EVE.  I figure there might at least be some academic interest in what's going on, so why not post about it!!!

First of all, the biggest overall change is that the level cap has been increased for the first time since NA PC launch in 2003.  They've been doing it in 5-level increments up to 99; current cap is 90.  This means a bit more than just saying "we're letting you get bigger numbers" or even "we're adding new content WoW-style"; 7 years of endgame had been built up around a 75 cap and SE was notorious for bending over backwards to keep old content relevant.  A level in FFXI means a lot in terms of power, so incrementally bumping the cap by 5 levels every few months sends a pretty clear statement that they were ready to completely punt the old game to make way for something new.  And oh, did they make way for something new.

The focus of max-level FFXI is almost entirely on small groups (as in, 2 to 4 players) and in many cases solo work.  In fact, a major criticism lodged at the game right now is that it's too easy, and this isn't simply culture shock; it is in no way an exaggeration to say a MNK and a WHM can duo 90% of the content available with the right buff setups (I'll get to that) and even those who like the current situation agree the game will live or die based on what opens up from 90-99, because the right now is untenable.  Ideally, the current content will be a jumping off point for a true 99 endgame: essentially an extremely deep, complex, and fun take on WoW's badge system.  If not, FFXI will last about as long as WoW would with nothing beyond said badge system.  But even so, the content itself represents some innovative ideas by people who Learned Lessons, so it's worth taking a look at.

Anyway.  There are a few different aspects of FFXI's current endgame, but two major ones: Trial of the Magians and Abyssea.  Trial of the Magians is a weapon upgrade system, and Abyssea is a sandbox.  I'll start with Magians


Trial of the Magians: When Did I Start Playing a Solo Game

When the FFXI devs were coming up with Abyssea, which would be the focus of their new game, they were presented with a few problems.  Weapons are so important; how do we stop a bottleneck?  How do we add customization now that everybody's capped merits?  What do we do with people outside Abyssea, anyway?  How do we assure the people who invested a year or more into making a relic or mythic weapon their time was not wasted (well, not wasted in the context of the game, which would be the ultimate insult)?

They basically answered all of these questions with Trial of the Magians.  TotM is pretty simple: you take a weapon, get a trial for that weapon, complete the trial, and it upgrades, at which point you get a new trial to upgrade it further.  In practice, it looks like this (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dagger_Trials).

As you can see from the chart, there are a bunch of different options.  Different weapon paths are better for different jobs, but it's worth noting that with some exceptions (staves, for instance, get spelldamage enhancement paths) everyone has the same range of changes in trial paths.  You can make an evasion weapon for your Dark Knight by following the wind elemental path for Greatsword or Scythe, or make a +magic attack weapon for your Thief (elemental WS, brah) by going ice with a dagger.  You might pursue other avenues first (giving a Ninja two katanas with +20 evasion and +9 AGI each is every bit as game-breaking as it sounds), but there's no restriction on going after them if you want, which has at least led to some pretty entertaining theorycraft.

Generally speaking, there are three groups of Magian trials: the elemental group, the weaponskill group, and the NM group.  The elemental group involves killing specific types of monsters on a given gameday of the week or under that weather condition.  So, for instance, if I want a STR/Attack weapon, I follow the fire path, which involves killing designated mobs on firesday or under fire weather.  This can be easy or obnoxious, though it's worth noting that if you kill a mob under the weather condition rather than the day, you get credit for killing 5.  It's grindy, but this is an MMO, and it's substantially LESS grindy than making a kajillion gil for a BiS weapon.

At any rate, if the elemental group is too grindy for you (the day-of-the-week thing is really annoying for trials where no good zone exists for that weather type), you might try the weapon skill path.  These weapons are generally slightly weaker than elemental weapons (emphasis on "slightly") and have MUCH less variety, but are generally quicker and infinitely more flexible.  The just involve using a given weapon skill on a given type of mob x number of times, or killing monsters with weapon skills.  Much more straight-forward; still grindy, but you can do it entirely at your own pace and the MMO Guilt ("fuck me lightningsday is in a half hour") never enters your mind.

Finally, the NM group.  These trials involve killing NMs with the trial weapon equipped a few times per trial.  Most of the early ones involve 1-hour repops that are mercifully useless for any function other than the trial*; the later ones involve various NM-related drops for the superpowered rapetrain-special-WS weapons (the Dagger is Twashtar with the Rudra's Storm WS) or a whole ton of normal mob kills for some multihit, kraken-club-style options.

Of particular interest in this whole system is the fact that you can use it to upgrade relic and mythic weapons, which were the best weapons at 75 and represented downright terrifying investments of time and resources.  Spent a year and a half on making a Mandau for your Thief?  No problem!  You can level it up to 90 along with your Thief itself.


I'll talk about Abyssea later.





*and with all trials, you can group freely and still get credit, so the whole system strongly encourages cooperation
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on March 15, 2011, 01:30:49 PM
I bought FFXI during the last steam sale. How's the 1-75 grind? Did they ever make it so you could get advanced jobs/subjobs before some arbitrary level point? I haven't installed it or used my key yet, it's just sort of sitting on the back burner.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 15, 2011, 02:40:19 PM
The subjob/advanced job prereqs haven't changed, but it's offset by how much faster the leveling process has become.  Just recently, SE doubled xp outside Abyssea, and you can now get skillups up to the cap from DC mobs rather than just EM or higher.  It barely matters, though, because the increase is offset by the fact that nobody does traditional parties anymore; we're leveling in Abyssea, which absolutely destroys outside partying (skilling up still happens outside, though).

This is a good segue into Abyssea, though.  Abyssea represents not only a huge shift for FFXI, but maybe the genre in general.  It's totally changed the game and how people play it; the Burning Crusade shift maybe begins to approach its impact.

Basically, there are two central realizations at work in its design:


1) as much as people enjoyed the FFXI level grind (and a lot of people did), the system was tired and was based on partying assumptions that were no longer valid.  Not only did a faster system need to be put in place, but it also needed to reincorporate casters, who had fallen by the wayside as melee just took over and hogged all the invites, and

2) it's okay to give players the opportunity to be absurdly overpowered and crush everything so long as you limit that overpoweredness to a particular venue, and then limit access to that venue. 


I'll start with XP.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 15, 2011, 03:00:38 PM
ABYSSEA ACCESS

I want to start with a quick discussion of Abyssea access because it affects the rest.  Basically, Abyssea is an alternate universe Vana'diel that's been ruined by invading monsters.  The nine Abyssea zones are carbon copies/reskins (PS2 memory limitations, lol) of Vana'diel zones populated by various mob camps and questgivers in the form of refugees from the three major cities.  In order to access them you need to "buy" time with stones you get from an NPC in Jeuno.  Each stone buys you 30 minutes of time and you get one every 20 hours; however, items exist (Abyssites, which I'll explain later on) that let you get stones more frequently and get more time per stone.  I get about 2 hours a day, and it accrues quickly, as you can imagine.  I have about 200 stones in storage, waiting to be used.  The stone mechanic is a good way to make time more meaningful in a high-power situation, but I think they screwed it up in allowing you to get too many items allowing you more time faster.  Still, nobody's complaining.

The big thing here is that upon zoning in, no matter how many stones you have and how much time you have left over from the last time you were there, you can't start with more than 120 minutes.  This becomes really important for XP, as I'll explain.

Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 15, 2011, 03:09:16 PM
ABYSSEA XP

You are probably familiar with the FFXI XP chain (kill another mob fast enough and you get bonus XP), but Abyssea is built around a different kind of chaining, which actually most closely resembles the FFXII chain mechanic, but with XP rather than items.  Basically, mobs start at a predetermined level, and each successive mob you kill of that type grants more XP, up until you kill a different kind of mob or you zone.  The mobs slowly power up too, but it's never a big deal.  The mob XP you get per kill caps at about 630. 

630 a kill should be surprising enough, but even more significantly, this mechanic functions regardless of how many people are in your group; XPing in a full alliance of 18 is now the norm, though people periodically join and leave and the process can easily happen with much less.  It's easier get a party (75+, at least) than it's ever been, thanks to the fluidity and flexibility of this mechanic.

"But wait!" you say.  "Getting 630 a kill is great and all, but surely this takes time, and how do we not run into that 120 minute barrier, resetting everything?"  The answer is time extensions, which are obtained through the treasure chest mechanic, which is up next.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 16, 2011, 06:08:36 AM
LIGHTS AND TREASURE CHESTS

Details about lights are here (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Abyssea_Lights).

Every time you kill a monster in Abyssea, everybody in your alliance in the zone gets a light, and the monster has a chance to drop a treasure chest.  There are four types of lights, each based on killing a monster with a different type of damage:

Azure: comes from killing a monster with a nuke; increases frequency/rewards for blue chests
Ruby: comes from killing a monster with a physical WS; increases frequency/rewards for red chests
Amber: comes from killing a monster with an elemental/magic WS; increases frequency/rewards for gold chests
Pearlescent: comes from killing a monster with regular autoattacks; increases frequency of all chests

The chests themselves are as follows, and are opened with a quick number-guessing minigame (high/low, guess with hints, etc.):

Blue: contains XP, cruor (Abyssea currency), or temp items; more azure lights mean more XP or cruor, and eventually they start giving 10-minute time extensions
Red: more lights
Gold: various kinds of items, both gear and pop items for NMs

The flow of an XP alliance is generally to build up azure and pearlescent lights, to maximize time extensions.  In this way, you can build up to 630 XP a kill and keep going long after the 120 minute mark.  This is a great system, because not only is the number of people of party (or their levels!) irrelevant, but it also encourages a mix of jobs; you need nukes to build your azure lights but also melee to get pearl going.  There's a place for everybody.  There's even a place for a few people to leech experience on low-level jobs, otherwise in charge of opening chests, keeping track of lights, and finding replacements. 

You can go with the full alliance if you want, or just go solo after you gain some power; I commonly bring linkshell friends who want XP along to open chests for me while I solo.  Got some solo farming to do?  Join an alliance in the zone in which you want to farm to help them out for a bit and build some lights, so you can get your own time extensions when you break off to solo.

It's a beautiful system that resolves many if not all of the problems of rigidity FFXI partying used to have, and throws you a staggering amount of XP in the process; 50-60k/hour is pretty weak in Abyssea.

The best part is that I haven't even gotten in to the actual content yet.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 16, 2011, 10:28:51 AM
ATMA AND ABYSSITES: WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?

I have mentioned several times that Abyssea lets you have a staggering amount of power for an FFXI game mechanic, and the means through which this happens are special Key Items you get from adventuring, completing quests, killing nasty NMs under special conditions, and so forth.  They are called Abyssite (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Abyssite_#Visitant_Abyssite) and Atma (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Atma).

Abyssite are a category of 80-some key items that have a variety of effects; some increase the number of stones you get (Celerity) or amount of time per stone (Sojourn), some increase HP and MP by 10% (Merit) or all stats by 10 (Furtherance), some reduce the XP death penalty by 10% (Lenity), and so forth.  They are all cumulative; getting all 6 Merit Abyssites, for example, increases HP and MP by 60% while in Abyssea.  You can sort of think of Abyssites as Abyssea Pokemon: a major long-term goal is to, well, catch 'em all. 

One specific type, Lunar Abyssite, allows you to use Atma (also key items) to get big stat bonuses, like this (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Atma_of_the_Razed_Ruins), or this (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Atma_of_the_Minikin_Monstrosity).  There are three Lunar Abyssites, so eventually you can set up to 3 Atma at once.  It's fucking unreal.  I crit regular attacks with a dagger on my 90 DNC for upwards of 200 damage a pop on Incredibly Tough mobs and Evisceration frequently lands for 2500.  I've seen Black Mages cast Blizzard V for over 5000 damage.  It's Atma that makes the Abyssea formula so fun, because we're all deliriously overpowered but that can only get us as far as the rewards Abyssea gives.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 17, 2011, 09:47:19 AM
NOTORIOUS MONSTER STRUCTURE AND REWARDS

Abyssea, naturally, has rewards, mainly in the form of drops from Notorious Monsters.  The NMs themselves are arranged in a tiered system.  The first tier is made up of NMs that either respawn in the middle of camps of related mobs every 15 minutes (a group of lizards, for instance, might have a lizard NM in it), or are spawned from a pop item that drops from those related mobs, usually at about a 20% droprate or so.  These first tier NMs have about a 50/50 chance to drop, among other things, a key item that is used to pop a second tier NM in conjunction with a few others, and they are usually close to each other. 

For instance, one NM "cluster" is based around a big tier-2 minotaur NM named Bukhis.  Surrounding Bukhis's pop point are three mob camps: one for gargoyles, one for minotaurs, and one for bats.  The minotaurs and gargoyles drop pop items to spawn Terrortaur and Quasimodo, their respective NMs.  A third NM, a vampire named Lord Varney, pops among the bats every 15 minutes.  Kill all three NMs for their key items (you may have to kill multiples if you're unlucky), and you can pop Bukhis.  Pretty simple.

Now, as for loot, all NMs have one or two unique drops (the tier 2s have two or three), but they also drop various items used to upgrade class-specific armor, which is the general loot incentive for Abyssea.  The basic class-specific armor is purchased with Abyssea currency is mainly for looks: here's (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ravager's_Armor_Set) the Warrior set as an example.  However, you can upgrade it through the items NMs drop. 

The tier 1 NMs all drop various kinds of seals, which are used to upgrade the base set to the +1 version.  All seals correspond to a particular slot of a particular set; for instance, if our Warrior wanted to upgrade his boots, he would go after Ravager's Seal: Feet.  Each NM can drop four different kinds of seals and the zones in which they drop usually correspond to a slot; for instance, all feet upgrade items drop in the Abyssea - Vunkerl zone, which is where Bukhis is located, among other things. 

So the Warrior who wants these feet seals has a few options.  He can go after an NM in Vunkerl that drops Warrior seals as one of the four alone, but that wouldn't be ideal; even if he's certain he can solo it, it would take a while.  Instead, he'll pick a particular NM that drops seals, note the three other types of seals it drops, and make a group based on what others want.  Ideally he picks up 3 other people who want other seals, they change jobs as necessary or able (after all, leveling in Abyssea is super-easy), and farm that NM until all four of them complete their boots.  The Warrior does this for all slots and ends up with this vastly-improved set (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ravager%27s_Armor_%2B1_Set), which blows almost everything else out of the water.

But this is not enough!  The Warrior can now upgrade to a +2 set if he wants, which is, for pretty much every class, the best armor set in the game (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ravager%27s_Armor_%2B2_Set).  In order to do this, he repeats the process, but now focuses on items that drop from Tier 2 NMs, like Bukhis.  In this case, though, he can put together his group, saying "I want Bukhis's items to make +2 warrior feet, but anybody who joins me can have access to any other Bukhis loot and also the +1 seals Varney, Terrortaur, and Quasimodo all drop."  To sweeten the deal, Bukhis, like all Tier 2 NMs, has an Atma, and when you force an NM to drop an Atma (i'll get to that), everyone in your alliance gets it

This is GREAT; it gives random people just starting out a reason to help seasoned players get +2 items without leaving the seasoned players any disincentive for doing so.  By the time you've helped a bunch of folks get +2 items, you have a bunch of Atma and experience fighting these NMs, so you can start leading your own +2 runs and bringing along the next round of pugs.  It's a little embarassing it took so long for somebody to come up with this structure.

Eventually though, you might see a problem arise: if it's this easy to become powerful and eventually solo stuff, wouldn't the whole thing fall apart once people just decide to go solo everything without the X Factor of a new player?  Abyssea accounts for this as well, though: there is a Weakness Trigger system in place that ensures it is ALWAYS better to bring other people, no matter how easily you can solo your target or how inexperienced the people you're bringing.  I'll talk about that in the next post.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 17, 2011, 04:25:26 PM
Good stuff; keep posting. I've heard of some major changes to FFXI in the past year or so, but I didn't know just how big the changes (and additions) were. FFXIV is taking large strides towards becoming a decent game, but that's still going to take at least a year (probably much longer) before that happens... so at some point in the future I'd like to play FFXI again.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 17, 2011, 09:35:55 PM
how about when the servers come up

i'll play :)
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 18, 2011, 05:52:47 AM
how about when the servers come up

That'd be nice, although the actual odds of me playing an MMO while in school and raising a baby are slim to none. I just like to dream...
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Friday on March 18, 2011, 06:57:22 AM
My friend does it with WoW, but he only gets to play about 5-8 hours a week, tops. Luckily, that's all you need in order to progress in PvP gear.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 07:02:44 AM
Yeah, keep in mind that all this content is built around a forced limitation on playtime: it starts at a 30 minute limit every twenty hours, and even with a bunch of the time extending abyssites (3/3 Celerity, 4/6 Sojourn), I only get about 2 hours a day.  I wouldn't recommend most of the elemental Magian trials for someone with a limited play schedule (wind and lightning might be okay, because some zones have that shit all the time), but otherwise the content's designed to be bite-sized.

That said, your kid is obviously way more important.

EDIT: Apparently someone on the NEW OFFICIAL FORUMS HEYOOOO just posted that SE will be reevaluating the power situation on March 22nd to see if they should reactivate.  That's much sooner than I thought they would (after all, they've already comped everybody April so they don't stand to gain much financially by bringing servers up early except to keep people from just drifting away), but with the way FFXI revenue is carrying the company right now it makes sense they'd want to try to lose as few people as possible.

So, comping us a month for maybe 2 weeks of downtime, committing a 100 million yen donation to the relief effort, and letting XIV players convert crysta to red cross donations, despite having gotten slaughtered on the Nikkei since September; SE is a company I suddenly feel pretty good about supporting.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 18, 2011, 08:34:51 AM
It's not so much about the free time as it's about my schedule being sort of random. My wife is actually fine with me playing an MMORPG, but the hard part is that if something ever suddenly comes up, I have to drop whatever I'm doing to help the kid. Being unable to pause is a problem. Actually, I was soloing in WoW for the first few weeks after Zach was born (because it's not a big deal if your character dies because you had to jump off the computer), but I had to quit due to school projects.

Aaaanyway, sometime after the servers are back up I'll give it a shot and see what I can do. I think my highest leveled job is around 37 (Ranger), with a few others (Corsair, Blue Mage, Red Mage) somewhere around 30. Is it possible to get any of those classes up to 70+ by soloing? I've also heard that Dancer is a great solo class.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 08:50:15 AM
NOTORIOUS MONSTER WEAKNESSES

Every Abyssea NM is weak to one physical WS, one elemental WS, and one spell/song, and triggering each weakness causes a "!!" to show up on the mob, seals some abilities for a short time and forces it to drop more loot.  Each weakness is randomly selected from a list of possible ones at the time the NM is claimed/spawned.  A detailed explanation, as well as the list of possible weaknesses, is located here (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Stagger).

The three types of weaknesses are as follows:

Red: Inflicts the Terror status, totally immobilizing the NM for 25 seconds.  Triggering the Red weakness forces the NM to drop all potential key items, including pop items (though only to the person who claimed it), Abyssites, and Atma.  Pops and Abyssites have a not inconsiderable chance to drop without Red triggers, but Red is the only way to get an Atma to drop.  It's triggered by one of 13 possible elemental weapon skills, the selection of which is totally random as far as anyone can tell.  Notably, however, a WAR and a NIN with properly-leveled combat skills and enough time can cover all 13 between the two of them.

Blue: Inflicts Amnesia for 25 seconds, preventing the use of any TP abilities.  Blue !! raises the possibility of the NM dropping any unique weapon or armor drops to around 80%; you'll usually go for it when hunting for a particular accessory or something.  It's probably the hardest to trigger, because it's triggered by a physical WS, of which there are 3 groups of 15 possible.  The particular group is determined by the time of day you pop/claim; 23:00 to 7:00 is Blunt, 7:00 to 14:00 is Piercing, and 14:00 to 23:00 is Slashing.  As you can see, you usually need a bunch of classes to land Blue, though notably one of the best things about the MNK + WHM duo is that they can hit all possible Blue triggers if they claim during Blunt time.

Yellow: Inflicts Silence for 25 seconds.  Yellow !! increases the number of class-specific upgrade items a given mob drops.  Without Yellow !!, for instance, Tier 1 NMs drop 0-2 seals; with Yellow, they drop 4-5.  It's triggered by spells; the specific spell will be determined from the list in my link based on the day of the week you pop/claim.  It will be either the element of that day, the day before, or the day after.  For instance, if you claim on Windsday, the Yellow trigger will be wind, water, or ice. 

The drop benefit is negated if you trigger the same weakness more than once on the same NM, but they don't, as far as anyone can tell, affect other weakness pops.  So if you want an Atma from an NM and don't care about anything else, you can chain Silence him by continuously proccing the Yellow weakness, though they do build resistance and the durations get shorter.

Basically, the idea here is to incentivize bringing more people so that you can trigger weaknesses and get more loot.  Though I personally can solo most tier 1 NMs, for instance, if I want seals, I'd consider it a waste of time to go farm them without a BLM or BLU in tow to help trigger Yellow; ideally I bring someone who wants different seals, but even if there's a conflict, the difference between proccing yellow and not proccing it is so big that I'm still ahead of where I would have been alone.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 08:58:57 AM
Also, my main is Dancer.  It's a wonderful solo class, and actually a top-tier damage-dealer in Abyssea because the existence of the Razed Ruins atma I linked means the whole thing heavily favors DDs with a strong crit weapon skill (Evisceration).  I have no real complaints about it, though I personally feel Ninja is overall stronger, definitely at BiS; NIN +2 feet, for instance, give Utsusemi another shadow.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: TA on March 18, 2011, 09:00:33 AM
The drop benefit is negated if you trigger the same weakness more than once on the same NM, but they don't, as far as anyone can tell, affect other weakness pops.  So if you want an Atma from an NM and don't care about anything else, you can chain Silence him by continuously proccing the Yellow weakness, though they do build resistance and the durations get shorter.

Do you mean here that you only get the drop benefit for the first time that you trigger a Weakness?  Or do you mean that triggering the Weakness a second time negates the drop benefit from the first trigger?  Because one of those is okay but the other is really really bad.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 09:17:09 AM
On any given NM, you get the drop benefit of a particular weakness the first time you trigger that weakness; it is negated if you trigger it on the same NM a second time.  The weakness system is reset for every NM you fight, every time you fight it, if that's what you're asking.

Basically once you find a given weakness, you can choose between going for the drop and exploiting the actual weakness effect.  Most of the time you're going for the former, though some exceptions exist (smart people will try to find out what the red weakness is for really strong NMs that go completely apeshit at 20% and then wait until they're low to trigger Red and zerg it down).

EDIT: Each weakness trigger is randomized every time you claim an NM, if that helps explain.  If you fight Bukhis two times in a row, both times will have different weaknesses.  If you were to wipe to Bukhis and reclaim him before he despawned, he'd lose all his procced weaknesses and get new ones.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 09:47:04 AM
Also, Rangers have...problems.  Because ranged attack damage suffers horribly at melee range, they have huge problems soloing, and at max levels, they derive no benefit from Haste, which becomes the bread and butter of the game.

I know some people who play RNG and swear by it, but it's telling that they usually hop on their MNKs and WHMs for Serious Business.  Same as it ever was.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 18, 2011, 11:27:02 AM
I only leveled Ranger because I was told it was the best subjob for Corsair by my old group. I hated every minute of it! Corsair was fun, but I wouldn't want to solo as that job.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 11:34:28 AM
Most melee jobs can solo pretty well in most situations thanks to /DNC to cover healing, though of the ones you listed I'd say BLU is overall the strongest right now.  Recent cap increases have introduced a few four-digit-damage spells, and Cocoon stays great for survivability the whole way up.  Really, the biggest disadvantage BLU has is that it's an MP job; in Abyssea, the only consequence of that is you need a Refresh atma so you're basically running two offensive atma while the DDs get 3.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 12:07:07 PM
PROGRESSION/STORYLINE

I guess the last thing to talk about is the quest structure.  Each zone has a bunch of repeatable quests, some of which have a chance to award a seal on completion; it's semi-viable to make +1 armor this way but it's not anywhere close to as fast (or as fun) as NM hunting.  There's a loose overarching story, too, that mostly functions to give you some feeling of progression.

All 9 zones have a boss target you need to kill to advance the story.  You can kill them in any order and you receive the quests for them automatically the first time you zone in to each area.  Each one you kill gets you a new Abyssite in a predetermined order; you can see them on the Abyssite page I linked.

Kill all nine and you're given a new quest to kill 6 NMs called caturae, who are big and nasty and can be pugstomped to death like everything else in Abyssea.  Do that, and you get access to the guy who was either behind it all or is like the harbinger of Abyssean doom or whatever, I am not totally clear on this point: [spoiler]Shinryu.[/spoiler]

SPOILERBOSS is actually hard, but has amazing loot, can be spammed (though each fight takes one of your stones), and grants you two Abyssite rewards the first time you win: one grants hints about the element/weapon type of a given weakness trigger when fighting an NM, and the other reduces the cost of Primeval Brew (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Primeval_Brew) an Abyssea-only item that grants you a 3-minute godmode (we are talking invulnerability and 20k damage weapon skills) from 2 million cruor to 200,000.

After that point you've beaten Abyssea, so farm [spoiler]Shinryu[/spoiler] for loot (easily soloable with Brew, lol), farm cruor for more Brew, shit on everything, use the auto-reraise effect on [spoiler]Shinryu's[/spoiler] Atma to grief Germans, etc.

That about wraps up Abyssea talk.  As you can probably see, it might strike one as a little anticlimactic, but I would argue it makes sense and is really well-designed if considered a jumping-off point or training ground for bigger things to come.  Provided those things actually come, of course.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on March 18, 2011, 12:26:29 PM
So is Mnk/Whm still pretty boss for soloing? I got to around 45 or so before I quit.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 12:40:17 PM
I'd prefer MNK/DNC, but with Fields of Valor buffs allowing you to take a one-hour 1 MP/tick Refresh, /WHM's fine.

Again, soloing is easy now.  It's as easy as it is in WoW.  The problem is jobs don't have specs, so soloing as, say, a WHM or a BRD goes about as well as you'd expect soloing leveling a Resto Druid or Holy Paladin to go.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Shinra on March 18, 2011, 12:42:09 PM
When do you start in Abyssea? How fast is the low level business now? Is soloing actually possible prior to high level content?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 12:53:23 PM
Soloing is easy; it's been easy since about 2005.  It's just a question of how fast you go.

Last month, the experience for an Even Match kill was bumped from 100 to 200.  Also the time restriction on Fields of Valor regimes (repeatable kill quests for XP) was lifted, so you can kill like 8 guys for a scaling-by-level amount of XP.  I tried soloing EPs in the mid-50s (target level: 47-49 vs. my 55-56) as a NIN and was getting about 7k an hour.  A level in the mid-50s is about 11k.

It's much faster than it used to be, but I'm honestly not the best person to ask; I tried it for maybe two hours and it still felt glacial to me so I went back to what I had been doing to level low jobs: abusing a particular Abyssea mechanic that may or may not be intentional for 20k an hour.  I'm probably spoiled, but this would be like the fifth time I've taken a job through the worst stretch of solo leveling in the game (mid-50s to mid-60s) and I'm pretty over it, let me tell you.  I know finding gear on the AH can sometimes be a problem, but ultimately all you really need are weapons and if you really need something crafted, everyone hangs out in Port Jeuno now so you can go there and shout.

Low level parties happen, though not especially often, as there just aren't enough people leveling anymore to support it regularly.  If you were following this thread initially you probably remember Norondor raving about level sync and it's a pretty jazzy idea, but the reality is its probably outlived its usefulness; with XP doubled, a level sync group levels out of its chosen camp in less time than it takes to put it together.

You can zone in to Abyssea at level 30, but the mobs aren't ever below 73 or so in even the lowest-level zones.  70-75 is about when you can expect to get Abyssea XP alliance invites, though I've started seeing them on my NIN at about 63 (people know I'll quickly get to a functional level shortly after joining at that point).
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 18, 2011, 01:20:47 PM
Oh yeah, I wanted to ask if there's a decent way to make money to afford weapons and armor. Right before I quit, I raised my crafting skills high enough to be able to craft bullets for my COR/RNG and also sell the extras for a small profit on the AH, but it took forever to raise the cash to even get my skill level that high in the first place.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 18, 2011, 01:54:46 PM
Sounds good.

...You weren't kidding about most people not using ranged classes anymore. I just checked FFXIAH.com and it looks like nobody's buying bullets anymore. They were selling like hotcakes about three years ago when I needed them (until, of course, I learned to make and sell them myself, at which point the demand dropped). And DAMN, holy waters look like a great way to profit.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 18, 2011, 02:32:30 PM
Some abyssea nmms use doom, which can be removed via HW or cursna, but isn't 100 percent, and cursna has a cool down.  Doom is use a third of a stack of holy waters or die. 

I mostly meant vendoring but they do sell.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Dooly on March 18, 2011, 06:46:28 PM
North American players have always been connecting to servers in Japan to play FFXI and FFXIV?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 18, 2011, 06:55:11 PM
Everyone has, yeah. That's why there's a little bit of lag; it's unavoidable.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 21, 2011, 06:52:48 AM
Oh, also, for those curious, most of the story content can be soloed at 90, and the level caps on story mission battlefields have all been lifted.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Cobalt on March 21, 2011, 03:36:47 PM
Does it let you alt+tab or run it in windowed mode?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 21, 2011, 03:56:16 PM
Does it let you alt+tab or run it in windowed mode?

I'm curious about the alt+tab thing myself, because FFXIV would crash every single time you did that.

Also, P. Birdy and anyone else who is/will soon be playing this: What server(s) are you on? My character is on Ramuh.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 21, 2011, 04:15:45 PM
I am on ramuh.  Relocated to play with the talking ty.rants but they aren't on much.

Starting up on ramuh might be problematic, as it's been slated to be merged with bahamut and new character creation has been frozen on both servers until the merge happens in may.   

Ffxi has windowed mode, but it barely mattered because i can't imagine playing without the windower program.  Apradar is worth checking out, too.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 22, 2011, 07:36:01 AM
Servers announced to come back online on march 25
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 26, 2011, 04:40:52 PM
I'm back in action on Cerberus; Paco said he may well jump back here once transfers are open from Ramuh again.

New EXP rates make duoing VERY attractive, and warp/reraise scrolls are free now. \(╹Д╹)/
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 26, 2011, 05:08:44 PM
Likewise, I started playing on Ramuh again today. I got Dancer from level 1 to level 8 in about fifteen minutes, so I feel a lot less bad about only being able to play at totally random times.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 27, 2011, 01:11:29 AM
also i maintain that level sync is in fact the shit because i got in a valkurm dunes party that took my samurai from 27 to 32.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 28, 2011, 06:28:19 AM
Yesterday I decided to try to fight an NM that is literally impossible to hit with physical attacks.  I got him to 90%!

Then I died like a chump!

Rosen, before you do anything else, you should make the time (provided you have at least one Abyssea expansion activated) to go talk to Joachim in Port Jeuno on a 30+ job.  Do his initial quest really quick and you'll start tallying Abyssea stones, meaning you'll have like a hundred in stock by the time you're actually ready to do anything and time will never be an issue.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 30, 2011, 11:30:56 AM
Rosen, before you do anything else, you should make the time (provided you have at least one Abyssea expansion activated) to go talk to Joachim in Port Jeuno on a 30+ job.  Do his initial quest really quick and you'll start tallying Abyssea stones, meaning you'll have like a hundred in stock by the time you're actually ready to do anything and time will never be an issue.

Thanks for the tip; I made sure to do that yesterday.

I'm gaining levels quickly enough that I don't feel the need to upgrade my equipment every time I can equip a new set, but whenever I do need to upgrade, it's a big pain to actually find equipment now that the auction houses are barren (at least for low-level stuff). Any advice? Right now I'm level 17 and fighting Tough enemies in the dunes. I love having what amounts to basically unlimited healing with Curing Waltz, but I'm still wearing level 10 armor and I'm spending more time healing than attacking now.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 31, 2011, 09:44:08 AM
Don't fight things harder than EM; Signet's your armor, and the added XP from harder targets will soon be heavily outstripped by killrate on weaker targets + FoV, if it hasn't already.

There's nothing to be done about the low level armor issue other than shout for a crafter.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on March 31, 2011, 10:06:09 AM
Ok, thanks. Like you said, I ended up just fighting weaker mobs much quicker and just toughed it out with the weaker armor until level 21, and fortunately I had a few pieces of Beetle armor saved in my Mog House. I used to have a bunch of sets of armor from different levels, but I got rid of it 3+ years ago when I thought I was settling on COR/RNG. Ah, well.

I love these Super Kupowers. Swift Shoes is great for running around when I can't warp or ride a chocobo, and Ease of Exploration makes travel between the starter cities and Selbina painless.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 31, 2011, 10:14:43 AM
Kupowers are pretty handy, yes.  Also, keep in mind you can get weapons and armor from Conquest vendors along the way if you're particularly hard up.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on March 31, 2011, 03:18:25 PM
Well, the cheap copy of Rift I got has failed to hold my interest for even one day, so I may be trying this again. How soon can I expect to actually be able to make a character that can see any of you jerks?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on March 31, 2011, 03:32:24 PM
Go to Cerberus.  Noro is on Cerberus, where I played until a few months ago.  I transfered to Ramuh to play with Rosen's Talking Time friends but they don't really do a whole lot and Cerberus is a much more active server.  Further complicating things is that Ramuh, ghost town that it is, is getting merged with Bahamut six weeks from now so nobody can transfer to or make a new character on either server.  I'll be heading back to Cerberus once I'm elgible to transfer again in a few weeks.  Maybe 3?

Noro is currently 66-67 on Dancer, which is smack dab in the middle of the worst grind in the whole game, so I think I can speak for him in saying he'd be thrilled to level sync with you.  Level sync becomes available at level 10, which is literally a half hour of grinding for someone who is familiar with the controls.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on March 31, 2011, 05:40:14 PM
Aye aye, cap'n. Setting sail for burning Saturday and getting farther behind on the domestics.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: norn on March 31, 2011, 06:32:35 PM
i need to stop reading this thread.

stop posting, mike.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on March 31, 2011, 06:35:25 PM
fucking do it norn
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Classic on April 01, 2011, 06:22:31 AM
You gotta man up...
To man down???
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 01, 2011, 12:36:17 PM
Forum announcement today that Adventuring Fellows are getting buffed!  Soloers rejoice!

Adventuring Fellows are basically pets you can summon to fight alongside you, heal you, make skillchains with you, etc. for a given amount of time, until you kill a given number of mobs, or they die.  You summon them with an item with a 20 hour cooldown, but once a week you can do a five-minute quest to get a supplementary summoning item with 5 charges and a CD of only 10 minutes.  They take 30% of your XP for the privilege, but level up on their own and gain XP as if they'd killed the target alone. 

The current level cap for Fellows is 70; the next update is bumping that to 85, doubling the amount of time they can stay out, and tripling the number of mobs they can kill before they leave.  This is huge for Magians stuff, if that weren't obvious, but moreover it basically means in practice that your Fellow is now a permanent fixture while you solo unless you die or warp a lot.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rosencrantz on April 01, 2011, 03:18:51 PM
Things keep looking up for soloers!

I'm level 28 now and things are starting to really slow down. That's the way it goes, I suppose. The new changes to the Fellows should help a bit, though.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 01, 2011, 03:45:11 PM
Viewed as a piece of gear, it's easily the most powerful in the game.  They liked the idea so much they expanded on it in ToAU, resulting in Puppetmasters.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Envy on April 01, 2011, 04:59:12 PM
I'm really trying to fight my will to return, how easy is it to start as a red mage. I lost my play online account and there is no way to retrieve it or so I'm told so I Cannot access my old monk.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 01, 2011, 07:38:02 PM
uh yes there is

square-enix account page, log in, bottom option on the left for playonline info

alternately you can give customer support your credit card number if you have actually lost everything forever
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 01, 2011, 09:18:21 PM
also rico you can probably guess how to contact me imo
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on April 02, 2011, 10:09:47 AM
I bought this on Steam why does it still take 8 hours to update afterwards why?
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 02, 2011, 10:29:36 AM
:(
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Rico on April 02, 2011, 09:48:37 PM
Aaaaaaaaand the UI and control scheme are just as bad as I remember.
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 02, 2011, 11:08:44 PM
mouse just isn't useful but that's not so bad
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 02, 2011, 11:08:50 PM
i mean imo
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Norondor on April 03, 2011, 02:17:16 AM
anyway i got distracted today but i'll try to be on tomorrow morning/night
Title: Re: Let's Play Final Fantasy XI
Post by: Pacobird on April 08, 2011, 06:14:48 AM
Roadmap for the next year (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4937-The-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-roadmap-for-the-twelve-month-period-commencing-April-2011) announced; level 95 in August, no new expansion, questionable whether new story content will be released ("The Last Stand"?).


So yeah, no rush, dudes.  The Voidwatch announcement had a screenshot of guys fighting Gilgamesh, though <3