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[Brentai]

I'm saying it's in the game and needs to be fixed, but you can't fault the people who discovered and used the strategy, unless they're actually using it to break the game.

(Did I ever actually have these arguments with the FFXI GMs?  Hell no.  They never said SHIT about FFXI when they weren't handcuffed to their desks.  It would have been a fun argument, though.)

[Pacobird]

I'm saying it's in the game and needs to be fixed, but you can't fault the people who discovered and used the strategy, unless they're actually using it to break the game.

Again, as I said, I don't begrudge anybody for using it, and the playerbase as a whole is just happy they didn't nerf KCDRKs as a whole.  I would have felt very sorry for all those players that spent 20 million on a K Club if they had.

(Did I ever actually have these arguments with the FFXI GMs?  Hell no.  They never said SHIT about FFXI when they weren't handcuffed to their desks.  It would have been a fun argument, though.)

Despite the quality of the game, its players are the dregs of humanity.  I don't envy anybody who has to work the customer service end.

[AČ]

Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I'm just explaining the mechanics of the trick and pointing out that its fucking retarded.  Are you saying it's not?

It may be "fucking retarted" to you, but to a whole bunch more people it's "A way to kill something no one else has done."

In WoW, is killing Drak by having a Hunter kite him away to down his adds "fucking retarted?" It's the only way I ever saw people able to kill him before most of the late BC content, which simply gave players obscene amounts of defense and attack to kill the two guards quick enough.

[Air]

`Why not just let them have their AV kill combo and release a fucking Omgea AV on the next game that doesn't allow it? Drop the loot count down to 1 or 2, and everyone is happy.

Anyway, good MMOs like PSO never have this problem  .

[McFrugal]

Yeah, it's too bad you can't play it anymore.

[Envy]

You cant play official anymore. Im sure theres plenty of private servers around here somewhere.. Or if you want to support them.. PSU was a decent blackhole of time.

[Arc]

Hello Kitty Island Adventure

October 6th, yo!

I wasn't accepted into the Closed Beta.

Naturally, HKO comes out the same day as the official release of S4 League...

[Pacobird]

Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I'm just explaining the mechanics of the trick and pointing out that its fucking retarded.  Are you saying it's not?

It may be "fucking retarted" to you, but to a whole bunch more people it's "A way to kill something no one else has done."

And it's now "disabled" because it is an "unintended mechanic" that makes the fight "too fucking easy" and Square gets the "last word" because they "develop the game".

You are insufferable.

[Brentai]

You're just "berserk" because you couldn't find a "Mithra" to "grind" with.

<I don't speak> <English>.

[Thad]

Paco!  You are posting here!

Why is it a thread I am utterly disinterested in?

How are things?

[Classic]

THAD IS DERAILING A THREAD!!! 

[AČ]

Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I'm just explaining the mechanics of the trick and pointing out that its fucking retarded.  Are you saying it's not?

It may be "fucking retarted" to you, but to a whole bunch more people it's "A way to kill something no one else has done."

And it's now "disabled" because it is an "unintended mechanic" that makes the fight "too fucking easy" and Square gets the "last word" because they "develop the game".

You are insufferable.

You are acting way, WAY too butthurt about this. Seriously. It's pretty obvious Square hates their players in FFXI. THis has been the only kill, period, on this guy. You don't think there's something wrong there? The only actual kill involved something that they immediately took out?

Poor game design. Seriously, chill.

To reiterate, since the original post I made here was made in haste:
I see a number of things here
A) Very, VERY bad game design in reguards to AV. Things in your world that your players can fight should be able to be killed. If you give them something that cannot be beaten, they have no incentive to try, and in turn, no incentive to give you money.

B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, General Drakksaith, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drak is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drak? A Hunter gets Drak's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drak to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

C) Horrible playtesting. Why did no one in Square-Enix catch this? Why did no one go "Hey, guys, the Kraken Club can hit a bunch of times, and the Dark Knight ability gives HP for each hit". Are they stupid? This is something a fourth grader would have caught.

All I see here is you vigorously defending Square-Enix being a horrible company in reguards with how they run FF11.

[jsnlxndrlv]

Think of it this way.

You found God's Thunderbolt!  With this weapon, you can kill anything!  So you go around, killing shit, until finally you think--say, can this kill God?  So you take it over to God's house and kill him with it, but since he's God he just comes back to life and takes the Thunderbolt away.

Great.  You just had to go point out how awesome the Thunderbolt is and why you shouldn't be allowed to have it.

Yeah, I'd say those DRK were pretty retarded.

[Alex]

B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, Drek'Thalar, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drek is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drek? A Hunter gets Drek's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drek to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

I would personally find this easier to buy if you hadn't thrown a fit over Fel Reavers being made immune to the Universal Gnomish Remote or devs booting people from the game for going to unfinished areas and the like.

 

[AČ]

B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, Drek'Thalar, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drek is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drek? A Hunter gets Drek's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drek to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

I would personally find this easier to buy if you hadn't thrown a fit over Fel Reaver's being made immune to the Universal Gnomish Remote or devs booting people from the game for going to unfinished areas and the like.
In short: I knew it was going to be fixed shortly after I tried it and in the server logs at Blizzard HQ it'd say "A player has controlled a L72 Elite Mob"
 

Except I didn't. I may have raged over some other mage change since no two devs can seem to agree which classes need a buff and which class need a nerf, (Although WotLK makes it look like they seem to be realizing the same thing the rest of the industry is: the hardcore are unpleasable, and unprofitable, so don't cater to them) but I never raged over Engineering, despite your near constant torrent of how Engineering is 'fucking useless', even after I made you ammo.

[Pacobird]

Does killing the damn thing get you ANYTHING but bragging rights?  You're acting incredibly butthurt that a bunch of people got an unimpressive kill that gained them no edge over anyone else.

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I'm just explaining the mechanics of the trick and pointing out that its fucking retarded.  Are you saying it's not?

It may be "fucking retarted" to you, but to a whole bunch more people it's "A way to kill something no one else has done."

And it's now "disabled" because it is an "unintended mechanic" that makes the fight "too fucking easy" and Square gets the "last word" because they "develop the game".

You are insufferable.

You are acting way, WAY too butthurt about this. Seriously. It's pretty obvious Square hates their players in FFXI. THis has been the only kill, period, on this guy. You don't think there's something wrong there? The only actual kill involved something that they immediately took out?

Poor game design. Seriously, chill.

To reiterate, since the original post I made here was made in haste:
I see a number of things here
A) Very, VERY bad game design in reguards to AV. Things in your world that your players can fight should be able to be killed. If you give them something that cannot be beaten, they have no incentive to try, and in turn, no incentive to give you money.

B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, Drek'Thalar, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drek is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drek? A Hunter gets Drek's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drek to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

C) Horrible playtesting. Why did no one in Square-Enix catch this? Why did no one go "Hey, guys, the Kraken Club can hit a bunch of times, and the Dark Knight ability gives HP for each hit". Are they stupid? This is something a fourth grader would have caught.

All I see here is you vigorously defending Square-Enix being a horrible company in reguards with how they run FF11.

All I am seeing here is someone who not only refuses to acknowledge a simple concept of game balance, but is acting like its my fault she doesn't get it.  You have spent this thread acting obtuse and being gloriously indignant about it and yes, that's pretty insufferable.  There is nothing frothingly SE-fanboyish about me being annoyed with a total cunt.  If you honestly think a mechanic (ONE mechanic) that reduces fights from a matter of hours to a matter of seconds isn't blisteringly overpowered (and more importantly, renders irrelevant all those players out there that aren't KCDRKs), then is it that you can't see 6 inches past the edge of your sense of entitlement or are you just a sped?

See doom's comment Re: Night Elf Hunters and Newbie's Re: God's Thunderbolt.  KCDRKs are rewarded in many ways, just not this way.  The developers are the only fair arbiters of what is "fair" or not.  Yes, Drak kiting and KCDRKing both went live and were in the game at some point.  C'thun also used to spawn 800 tentacles in his stomach and Vashj would immediately repop after dying.  It's a good thing there are these things called "hot fixes".  The KC zerg, in my opinion, is the very definition of overpowered, and when Drakkisath started leashing so you couldn't kite him halfway through the instance while you offed his guards, well, I guess it's time for you to stop being terrible and learn how to do the fight at the intended difficulty level, isn't it? :( 

EDIT: You didn't come up with the Hunter-kites-Drak strat.  Rote repetition of another's strategy is not creativity; it is, in fact, just the opposite.


ps hi thad :>

[Rico]

B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever. This is, in my book, wrong. No exploit was used. In WoW, a boss, Drek'Thalar, has two guards with him, who are lesser versions of him. (They have very powerful attacks). Drek is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to kill with those two. The most common way to kill Drek? A Hunter gets Drek's attention, and then backtracks halfway across the instance with him in tow, while the rest of the party quickly kills the two guards. Once they're down, the hunter Feigns Death, causing Drek to run back to the main party, where he can be killed with relative ease. This is creativity. Creative analyzation of monster behavior, and creative use of player abilities.

And, just so I get my turn at being an insufferable cunt: The Drek'Thar kiting strategy had nothing to do with Hunters or FD and was pretty clearly intended (lol yelling flavor text).  General Drakkisath was never mechanically hard enough to need the strategy though it did make the fight easier; people are just ridiculously bad at the game (lol Holy-spec Fortinbras outDPSing Rogues)

[Brentai]

A) Very, VERY bad game design in reguards to AV. Things in your world that your players can fight should be able to be killed.

Not necessarily true.  EQ had The Sleeper, and it was fairly popular.  There are countless examples back in the MUD days, too, but things were more chaotic in general then.

If you give them something that cannot be beaten, they have no incentive to try, and in turn, no incentive to give you money.

I'm gonna have to go with Paco Loco on this one: we're talking about one hidden boss in an MMORPG that's been steadily growing for half a decade.  Did you refuse to play FF7 because of Ruby Weapon?

B) Even worse game design as to how the breaker was handled - immediate removal of it. No. Bad. You do not punish your players for being clever.

Removing the broken strategy and punishing the clever players who used it are two completely different actions.  We just had that argument, god dammit.

C) Horrible playtesting. Why did no one in Square-Enix catch this?

...

Lyrai.

You really do not want to go there.

There is nothing frothingly SE-fanboyish about me being annoyed with a total cunt.

...man, when someone lets you have the moral high-ground you just go BASE-jumping right off it, don't you?

[Defenestration]

A) Very, VERY bad game design in reguards to AV. Things in your world that your players can fight should be able to be killed.

Not necessarily true.  EQ had The Sleeper, and it was fairly popular.  There are countless examples back in the MUD days, too, but things were more chaotic in general then.

Well, the Sleeper was eventually killed... with a few expansions worth of preparation. If I recall, there was a big hullaboo when a GM despawned it after he realized that they were *actually going to be able to kill it.*

[Pacobird]

...man, when someone lets you have the moral high-ground you just go BASE-jumping right off it, don't you?

I've gotten way too old to take arguing about video games on the internet seriously enough to worry about how I look doing it.