Brontoforumus Archive

Game Boards => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Brentai on September 20, 2008, 03:47:03 PM

Title: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on September 20, 2008, 03:47:03 PM
I'm tempted to double back and finally pick up Twilight Princess, but I feel like that would be trying to wash down a Coors Light with a Fat Tire right now.  Yeah, it's a hugely superior beer, but... it's still just more beer.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 12:54:15 PM
Good on you.

I am playing Oracle of Seasons again (for the first time). I just went into a volcano dungeon only to find that it's full of ice. What the fuck, nintendo? I want a fucking refund, this is a slap in the face.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Friday on October 07, 2008, 12:55:50 PM
*takes a drink*
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Lady Duke on October 07, 2008, 01:59:04 PM
Nor, how can you play a game again for the first time?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Disposable Ninja on October 07, 2008, 02:01:13 PM
Ever play a game half-way through, don't touch it for a while, then start playing it again and play past where you last stop playing?

Or: Oracle of the Ages
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Lady Duke on October 07, 2008, 02:02:19 PM
I suppose that works.

I never did beat ages or seasons....and then I lent them out and the faggot lost them because he was a supreme faggot.  And that's why I never lend out games or movies anymore :3
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Disposable Ninja on October 07, 2008, 02:07:11 PM
Games are always lent to the persons who should not have games lent to them.

Take my brother, for example. I lent him Resident Evil 4. He lost it. And he also broke his gamecube somehow. And the big-screen TV he had. With an axe.

After the recent hurricane he came to me again, going all "please lend me Metroid Prime and some other games, please! I don't have anything to play!" I, put on the spot like that, lent him Metroid Prime.

Then his girlfriend bought him a PS3.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 02:09:52 PM
Or: Oracle of the Ages

This is actually correct. I could only get one when i was a wee tyke!

The difficulty in Ages is "how the cunt do i actually solve this puzzle" and the difficulty in Seasons is "jesus christ if manhandla hits me again i will die and i still don't know how to even hurt him and i don't have a potion help help help"

Both of them are pretty much better than any nintendo-made zelda games! see also: Wokami.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 02:37:39 PM
The difficulty in Ages is "how the cunt do i actually solve this puzzle" and the difficulty in Seasons is "jesus christ if manhandla hits me again i will die and i still don't know how to even hurt him and i don't have a potion help help help"

It's telling that Seasons is sort of a remake of the original LoZ (you can see where they copied some of the map designs) and Ages is sort of a remake of OoT (you can see where they copied some of the map designs and then turned them 2D).  You get a very definite Action Zelda / Puzzle Zelda schism between the two.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 03:13:53 PM
I don't know if they copied any of the dungeons directly, but yeah, it's clear that that's what they're doing.

Both oracle games also have some of the best items in zelda history. Why have we not seen the Magnetic Gloves, Roc's Cape, the Switch Shot or magic rings in later games? ANOTHER SLAP IN THE FACE.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Kayma on October 07, 2008, 03:18:29 PM
Seasons and Ages were both freaking incredible. I can't find my copy of Seasons (almost certainly lost by 4 years of moving to and from college), but I'd really love to play them both again someday.

I completely agree that it's a crime we haven't seen some of these items survive to newer games.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
Bomb+Arrow=Genius and how my clumsy self woke up the wind fish.
I'd like to see more neat combos going on.

Maybe I should actually go buy a portable Zelda from Seasons/Ages onwards before making that comment.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 04:30:27 PM
The rings were kind of widgety for the Zelda series, but the seed shooter was  :wuv:

(Am I ignoring certain posts?   :whoops:)
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 04:33:11 PM
Well i don't know about the implementation but the idea of  having little things you can equip to affect yourself in minor ways (e.g. rang rings or the whimsy ring) is fun and adds a little customization to the game, which is nice.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 05:01:37 PM
Well sure, but it doesn't fit into the series' KISS mantra very well.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Catloaf on October 07, 2008, 05:04:26 PM
I've yet to play Zelda: OoA, but I've gotten the last boss of OoS to 1/4 of his final form.  I should really play OoA.  Maybe I can beat that one.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 05:54:24 PM
Well sure, but it doesn't fit into the series' KISS mantra very well.

With ten thousand equippable items and a slew (sometimes even a bevy!) of unlockable sword attacks in every game?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 07, 2008, 07:02:48 PM
Roc's Cape
It was also in Minish Cap. Minish Cap also included the oh-so-impressive Cane of Pacci (http://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic1-030308.php).

I'd like to see more neat combos going on.
Twilight Princess had a few, including the return of bomb-arrows.

I recognize that you probably knew all of that already.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 07:31:10 PM
Well sure, but it doesn't fit into the series' KISS mantra very well.

With ten thousand equippable items and a slew (sometimes even a bevy!) of unlockable sword attacks in every game?

I admit I haven't played Twilight Princess, but what Zelda games have you been playing?  Generally the only equippables are straightfoward tunic-sword upgrades, and the rest is just a pile of widgets that perform different functions, but don't alter any intrinsic stats (and usually don't see much play outside of a handful of situations anyway).  And the only unlockable sword technique is the upgraded whirlwind thing, unless you're talking about the rhythm game special attacks in WW.

I actually got that copy of Sam and Max Season 1 working a few days ago (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=908.msg31218#msg31218). It's made me laugh out loud a few times, and most of the puzzles are actually pretty logically put together

Hell yeah.  It continues to amaze me that the adventure series most based around comic insanity actually has the most logical puzzles.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 07:51:47 PM
I admit I haven't played Twilight Princess, but what Zelda games have you been playing?

Twilight Princess.

8.8 is a pretty generous review score.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 08:01:01 PM
 :tears:
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 07, 2008, 08:07:01 PM
Minish Cap and Twilight Princess have unlockable advanced sword maneuvers (most of which, in the latter case, amount to doing Wind Waker's counterattacks manually). Twilight Princess suffers a little bit from equipment creep - the slingshot and the dominion rod were useless outside their own dungeons, the spinner and the ball & chain don't open up much beyond the obvious, and the water bomb upgrade wasn't handled well - but it's all still just widgets. And, despite Norondor, it's still a hell of a game.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McFrugal on October 07, 2008, 08:09:06 PM
I beat Oracle of Seasons, but it turns out my copy of Oracle of Ages has a dead battery!  Or, I think that's the problem.  My save erases when I turn it off.  Thank god I found that out before playing more than 20 minutes.

I haven't gotten up the motivation to buy that stupid tool to open the cart so I can replace it.  Plus I hear it could be welded in there.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 08:10:59 PM
I gave away those games.  Twice.  To pretty girls.  I'm fucking emulating it if I play them again.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Alex on October 07, 2008, 08:12:43 PM
I'm going to have to back up Norondor on TP.  I wanted to like it so much after Wind Waker left an absolutely terrible taste in my mouth, but it fought me every step of the way and won out in the end by being easy enough to put me to sleep.  The ball and chain sub-boss gave me the most trouble in the game.

the water bomb upgrade was handled well because you could at least use them for bomb arrows.

 ::D:
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 08:19:15 PM
See, Bill, just as you said, the equipment creep really pissed me off. Yeah, i know you guys like having all these new toys every dungeon, but either make them useful or just cut them, you idiots.

Also, the ultra-realistic style makes the game look horrible when you run into the unnatural-looking freaks that populate the N64-style zelda worlds. It also makes the natural-looking characters freaky -- Ganondorf's head is, like, 3 feet long.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 08:21:08 PM
I'm going to have to back up Norondor on TP.  I wanted to like it so much after Wind Waker left an absolutely terrible taste in my mouth,

FUCK YOU BUDDY, sailing may be a bit boring but the last act of that game redeems the whole thing and the dungeons are lightning bolts better than TP's.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 08:21:23 PM
Dungeons are essentially built around their contained item now.  You might as well start calling them the Bow Temple, the Hookshot Temple, the Boomerang Temple...
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 08:24:20 PM
Dungeons are essentially built around their contained item now.  You might as well start calling them the Bow Temple, the Hookshot Temple, the Boomerang Temple...

This has been the case since the SNES at least, and possibly even Zelda 2. The difference is, in TP the items in the top dungeon, stupid stick dungeon, and slingshot dungeon are never used again. They're just useless filler, and the game's dungeons are already so long that they become boring way before the last boss fight.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 08:24:49 PM
Bombchu.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 08:25:36 PM
... what about it.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Royal☭ on October 07, 2008, 08:36:14 PM
FUCK YOU BUDDY, sailing may be a bit boring but the last act of that game redeems the whole thing and the dungeons are lightning bolts better than TP's.

Hey so once Wind Waker stops being about sailing and starts acting like other Zelda games it becomes fun?  What a concept!
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Disposable Ninja on October 07, 2008, 08:38:08 PM
I liked sailing in WW.

Honestly, I liked everything in WW.

They... could have done the Triforce hunt better, I'll give you.

Everything else was right tits in my opinion, though.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 08:53:12 PM
Hey so once Wind Waker stops being about sailing and starts acting like other Zelda games it becomes fun?  What a concept!

Yeah, the larger point here is that the parts where it gets off its ass and starts being a zelda game are better than any other zelda game.

It seems that not bothering with designing and modeling a giant useless mostly-empty overworld that, and fuck you if you try to fight me on this point, is exactly as boring and stupid and pointless as a giant ocean you have to sail around, allowed them to focus on making the game look and play better than any previous nintendo-headed effort in the series. What. A. Concept.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Doom on October 07, 2008, 08:55:21 PM
Quote
It seems that not bothering with designing and modeling a giant useless mostly-empty overworld that, and fuck you if you try to fight me on this point, is exactly as boring and stupid and pointless as a giant ocean you have to sail around, allowed them to focus on making the game look and play better than any previous nintendo-headed effort in the series. What. A. Concept.

Yeah really, we havn't had an Overworld worth exploring since Link to the Past.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 07, 2008, 08:56:07 PM
YMMV on the actual Zelda bits too though.  I actually liked sailing the most, though it was grating to have to do it so often.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Royal☭ on October 07, 2008, 08:58:30 PM
The problem with sailing is that it took forever to get anywhere (you can complain about OoT being empty, but in the time it takes to get Epona from Kokiri Village to Hyrule Castle, that's the same as going from island to island), there was nothing to do once you got anywhere except maybe find A RED RUPEE!  THAT'S WORTH 10 RUPEES over and over again, and on top of that there were a lot of monsters which once they hit you off the boat did a good job of hitting you off the boat again once you got back on.   And you could barely outrun them.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Rosencrantz on October 07, 2008, 09:00:18 PM
Yeah, it was stupid how you couldn't have any other items equipped when the sail was out. God, that was probably my least favorite part.

(We probably need a split by this point.)
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 07, 2008, 09:02:09 PM
I think I'll replay Minish Cap.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Alex on October 07, 2008, 09:03:40 PM
Sailing was food making/laundry doing/errand doing time, downgrading to simply food making time once I got the Song of Gales or whatever that teleporting song was.

The rest of the game was just not all that interesting to me as I wasn't taken in by the cel shading, the combat, the stealth segments, Tingle (and the fucking Triforce hunt) or Link's big cat-like eyes, not that I enjoyed Tobey Maguire Link in TP, who could only widen his eyes and smile stupidly at everything.

I'm really thankful it was a gift and not something I actually spent money on.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: LaserBeing on October 07, 2008, 09:05:16 PM
Isn't there already a ZELDA SUX thread? Or was that on the other board?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2008, 09:06:10 PM
I'm still not sure why the sail was in Link's inventory instead of just being held by the Kind of Red Lions. If I could have fired a bomb cannon/used the telescope while the ship was moving along at a reasonable pace, I don't think I would have been quite as bored/frustrated with many of the sea sections.

That said, I think I visited every island in that game, and liked it enough to snag about half of the "easy" figurines.

EDIT: In between writing this and getting a sandwich, this occurred:
Yeah, it was stupid how you couldn't have any other items equipped when the sail was out. God, that was probably my least favorite part.

Sorry!
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 09:07:24 PM
I scarcely remember fighting anything on the boat, except cannon fights and sometimes killing those giant octopi. I at least don't remember anything super objectionable.

Getting the teleport thing in WW definitely makes it more bearable, i will not deny, and probably a lot of my good feelings for the game stem from the fact that puppet ganon + last battle basically made me stupid for the game forever.

Really, if you want to criticize anything about the game, it might as well be the forced stealth section, which, to the best of my knowledge, no one has to date been executed for.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2008, 09:18:12 PM
Actually, WW the forced stealth section made me feel least offended. Of all stealth sections in Zelda anyhow :shrug: .

But seriously:
puppet ganon + last battle basically made me stupid for the game forever.
My exposure to modern Zelda is limited, but that may have been my favorite boss/climactic battle sequence. Ever.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Thad on October 07, 2008, 09:20:07 PM
Dungeons are essentially built around their contained item now.  You might as well start calling them the Bow Temple, the Hookshot Temple, the Boomerang Temple...

This has been the case since the SNES at least, and possibly even Zelda 2.

But it's gotten progressively worse each time.

Quote
It seems that not bothering with designing and modeling a giant useless mostly-empty overworld that, and fuck you if you try to fight me on this point, is exactly as boring and stupid and pointless as a giant ocean you have to sail around, allowed them to focus on making the game look and play better than any previous nintendo-headed effort in the series. What. A. Concept.

Yeah really, we havn't had an Overworld worth exploring since Link to the Past.

LttP is pretty much unfuckingbeatable in terms of overworld (and, for my money, everything else).  I actually liked exploring in TP, but then I found everything I could at the time and then they made me fish more and I said fuck this and I haven't played it in like a year.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Saturn on October 07, 2008, 09:29:16 PM
the dumbtop in TP could have been made more useful by simply making it NOT SLOW DOWN TO A FUCKING CRAWL after 6 feet.

Also the wolf sections were boring. (and midna's yawning gets annoying real fast)
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 09:33:10 PM
Dungeons are essentially built around their contained item now.  You might as well start calling them the Bow Temple, the Hookshot Temple, the Boomerang Temple...

This has been the case since the SNES at least, and possibly even Zelda 2.

But it's gotten progressively worse each time.

... which is more or less the point of what i said.

Though the Oracle games and WW have dungeon tools that are often useful for other things (the N64 games have "sometimes" useful tools, and TP tools are "never" useful -- which to me is the real distinction).
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Saturn on October 07, 2008, 09:41:43 PM
Din's fire was needed what, twice ever?

(more in master quest, but master quest made the fucking BOMBCHUS useful)
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 09:45:31 PM
... it's not ever needed. You just get it incidentally, like bombchus.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Thad on October 07, 2008, 09:46:20 PM
Yeah.  In LttP, there were items that were unnecessary to complete the game that were nonetheless pretty useful (Boomerang, Magic Powder, Bombos Medallion, Cape, Cane of Byrna, net and 3 of the bottles were all unnecessary, IIRC).
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: on October 07, 2008, 09:56:51 PM
I'm almost positive that there was some place that required the cape.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2008, 09:58:24 PM
They were completely unnecessary.

Then again, none of the items seemed too McGuffin-y, they all had some (semi-)viable in and out of combat applications above and beyond their dungeon's scope and were reused later. Then again, two of the dungeon items were armor/shield upgrades. Maybe that should be taken into consideration.

I'm almost positive that there was some place that required the cape.
IIRC: There is a place, but it's not in a main dungeon. Though I could be wrong. It has been a while.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Zaratustra on October 07, 2008, 10:04:38 PM
You used the cape to get a piece of heart. And I think it made a castle or two easier.

Boomerang is needed to activate a couple of switch orbs on Ganon's Tower, no?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2008, 10:05:28 PM
hey um since when am i a moderator

UH BUT ANYWAY my point was... you can't really complain about that being a dungeon item. and having items you don't need to progress but that are cool anyway is hardly anything to complain about.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Detonator on October 07, 2008, 10:09:34 PM
hey um since when am i a moderator

Quote
Posts:   777

Maybe you have all 7 fever :shrug:

Don't post ever again or you might lose it.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2008, 10:13:48 PM
I like items. I like items more when they're useful for more than one awesome boss fight.
:shrug: I guess my tastes really have no rhyme or reason.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Saturn on October 07, 2008, 10:14:38 PM
... it's not ever needed. You just get it incidentally, like bombchus.

i could have sworn you used it to get into the shadow temple, then again inside to burn some spiked wall things.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Thad on October 08, 2008, 08:47:17 AM
and having items you don't need to progress but that are cool anyway is hardly anything to complain about.

Who's complaining?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 08, 2008, 09:01:23 AM
Din's Fire was never necessary, but it made some puzzles much easier.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 08, 2008, 10:43:13 AM
So what are our favorite zelda items/utilities? What niches do they fill, and why have they been awesome?
Even as early as LttP, we've had what amounted to gimmick items. I'd argue that the first item you get, the lamp, is a gimmick item. Necessary, and torch lighting puzzles continue to be a staple, but what's its combat application? Is it more than nil? I honestly don't remember.
Bombs and Arrows (and bomb-arrows? :tears:) remain staples for their puzzle solving efficacy and combat utility. Though I'm not sure how the shift from 2 to 3D effects their usefulness.
But what else?
Heavy lifting items are basically a guarantee and so is some variant on the hook shot. Both have reasonable and intuitive puzzle and combat uses.

Can we agree that these are the Zelda game basics, and that they're strong because they have a reasonable amount of irreplacable uses?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Doom on October 08, 2008, 10:45:18 AM
The Hook-Shot is still the absolutely perfect iconic tool of the series, in my humble opinion.

That the best Zelda game, Wind Waker has two variations of it speaks sublime volumes of it.

But seriously though, I always spend at least infinite hours in each Zelda game firing the hook shot into anything and everything.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on October 08, 2008, 10:55:45 AM
of course, nowadays, the hookshot/clawshot can only be fired in to clearly marked doodads.  Granted, I haven't messed around with it much on the overworld in TP, but I just finished the Twilight Temple a few days ago.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 08, 2008, 10:59:44 AM
Well, that's the thing though, Hook-Shot is great. But why should there be two versions of it? It's a bit hazy, but did the two versions at least have different swinging mechanics? I could accept such a thing, but I don't remember for sure and for certain. I just remember OMG AMAZING FINAL BATTLE.

Also:
the hookshot/clawshot can only be fired in to clearly marked doodads. 

Is a better example of bad hookshot replication.
Though I must confess, getting the double claw and pretending to be spider-link was a guilty pleasure I still haven't quite gotten over. Problem was, you spent most of the game using a single and wondering why Link didn't do anything useful with his other arm, being pissed at not being able to get items that you should very clearly be able to get.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on October 08, 2008, 11:05:12 AM
getting the double claw and pretending to be spider-link was a guilty pleasure I still haven't quite gotten over
this
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 08, 2008, 11:35:00 AM
Again, i really prefer the hookshot replacement in Oracle of Seasons, the Magnetic Gloves. They can attract and repel marked objects in the world and be used to shove around metal enemies (Darknuts, those fuckers with the morning stars that are so impossible to kill) and they can be used as a BACKWARDS HOOKSHOT on metal posts, which totally rules.

Also, Classic, i am surprised you didn't mention the boomerang. Along with Roc's Feather it is #1 in "things i equip the most besides a sword" in every single game it shows up in. Having an infinite-ammo ranged stunning attack when your protagonist does most of his damage in melee is pretty clearly a good thing!
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 08, 2008, 11:55:05 AM
It is a game staple for exactly those reasons, but I'm not sure it's essential in the same way the hookshot is. The new multi-target systems for the boomerang make it a more potent puzzle solving tool, but until these recent developments the boomerang wasn't necessary for any puzzles and even in these examples I could imagine someone defending the claim to it's puzzle solving abilities being irrelevant to it's combat abilities and vice-versa (though, again, I wouldn't do it myself).

I excluded the boomerang from my initial list purposefully because I wasn't convinced it was "essential" in the same way that arrows, bombs, and hookshot (which I missed due to senility). My :wuv: for the boomerang is pretty potent and was also a factor in second-guessing it's place on the "essential" list.

I agree with you that the Roc's Items have been some of my favorites, but this might be because I really enjoy mobility altering/enhancing items. One of my favorite items in LttP remains the Pegasus Boots. CHAAAAAARGE!
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Thad on October 08, 2008, 11:57:46 AM
Well, that's the thing though, Hook-Shot is great. But why should there be two versions of it? It's a bit hazy, but did the two versions at least have different swinging mechanics?

Yeah.  One was the grappling hook.

Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 08, 2008, 12:01:09 PM
I agree with you that the Roc's Items have been some of my favorites, but this might be because I really enjoy mobility altering/enhancing items. One of my favorite items in LttP remains the Pegasus Boots. CHAAAAAARGE!

Agreed but i really dislike using them in tandem with the Roc's feather/cape for super jumps, given how pits in the GB games suck you in.  :humpf:
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 08, 2008, 02:22:58 PM
Boomerang is the iconic Zelda tool, mainly because you get it so early in the first game, it's in nearly every one, and it's unique enough to stand on its own (everyone has bombs).  Plus it continues to be amazing that you can grab items from way over there wooooooah.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: François on October 08, 2008, 02:28:49 PM
The boomerang is Link's trusted sidekick. He's always there for you, and he'll even find his way back if you leave the screen while he's out. Sure, sometimes you throw him at a bad guy and he makes that "tink" sound and does nothing, but that's okay. He tried his best. And even then he's still better than the bow, that money-grubbing mercenary guaranteed to let you down as soon as your funds run out.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Royal☭ on October 08, 2008, 02:48:51 PM
bow has the guts to do what boomerang can't.


Kill a man.
Bow/Palin 08!
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on October 08, 2008, 02:57:22 PM
in b4 sokka :approve:
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Detonator on October 08, 2008, 04:00:23 PM
You do always come back! ::D:

Hookshot was great in LttP and all, but I think it's acceptance as a series staple has diminished its impact.  I would rather see something brand new next game, even though the "new" stuff in TP was kinda lame.

I don't even remember the special items in Phantom Hourglass.  Was there anything significant?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 08, 2008, 05:33:50 PM
A top you can ride on and a magic cane that's even more useless than the cane of pacci, if you can believe that.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Detonator on October 08, 2008, 05:36:05 PM
I don't even remember the special items in Phantom Hourglass.  Was there anything significant?
A top you can ride on and a magic cane that's even more useless than the cane of pacci, if you can believe that.

That was Twilight Princess, or did they do it AGAIN?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 08, 2008, 05:46:22 PM
oh UH i misread that good work me

Phantom hourglass, unless i am totally blanking on something, had NO unique items. The one that's made the least appearances is the hammer. However, they are all used in various awesome ways with the touchscreen, which kind of makes up for it?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 09, 2008, 06:10:47 AM
Phantom Hourglass had, I guess, the boat? But that hardly counts.

The spinner was great fun in the few places that you were able to use it.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on October 09, 2008, 07:58:29 AM
Like that boss fight.  I totally dug the boss fight in the dungeon with the Spinner.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: MadMAxJr on October 09, 2008, 10:10:46 AM
The gameboy one with the windfish (Oh god I can't recall the actual name).  Flying chicken.  Throw boomerang.  Pick up flying chicken.  Boomerang is now a tiny angry god below you that will viciously murder anything you fly over.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on October 09, 2008, 10:18:00 AM
link's awakening
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 09, 2008, 10:25:42 AM
THANKS MCDOHL!
And oh fuck had I forgotten about how awesome that was.

Still couldn't kill anything though.

The (2d) boomerang does have one slight change in utility that some of the other weapons don't, in that by moving link after throwing the boomerang, you can cause it to arc and hit oddly placed strike-switches. Which was pretty cool, but I don't think required for any dungeons (in LttP).

I never got to play it at length, but was Majora's mask awesome?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Thad on October 09, 2008, 11:11:26 AM
Phantom Hourglass had, I guess, the boat? But that hardly counts.

Grappling hook was distinct enough from Hookshot to count I think.

And oh fuck had I forgotten about how awesome that was.

Still couldn't kill anything though.

Yeah it could.  The Boomerang in Link's Awakening actually dealt massive damage to most things (and in fact killed the last form of the last boss in one hit).  It was the best weapon in the game.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on October 09, 2008, 11:13:40 AM
It was solid.  Definitely different.  The whole Groundhog Day-style "3 DAYS 3 DAYS" thing was an interesting gimmick, and the challenges were spaced so that you had solid milestones that lasted a cycle.  (Get a particular item, learn a certain ocarina song, get a mask, etc)

Also, Fierce Deity Link owning bosses. :D
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Friday on October 09, 2008, 11:17:11 AM
Majora's Mask had some of the most fucked up shit in any video game. Some of that game could have been carted off and put into Silent Hill with absolutely no changes made.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Kayma on October 09, 2008, 11:32:02 AM
Majora's Mask had some of the most fucked up shit in any video game. Some of that game could have been carted off and put into Silent Hill with absolutely no changes made.

That's a fact. I really enjoyed he dark, strange tone this game had.

Still never finished it...
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on October 09, 2008, 11:35:24 AM
hello thread

The Hookshot represents both the best and the worst elements of the Zelda series.  It is at once an interesting and useful ability, while simultaneously heralding really mindless lock-and-key dungeon design.

To me Zelda is always at its best when it deviates the most from established formula.  Majora's Mask and Four Swords Adventure take the series in almost opposite directions, but for all their flaws, I'd rather play either one over just about any other game in the franchise.

Four Swords Adventure turns the usual Zelda quest structure on its head.  You don't get to keep your treasures; they're distributed throughout the dungeons not far from where you'd need them.  It's level based; the force gems you find under a rock or in a hard-to-reach chest only matter in this level, and since you have to get 2000 before the level's end, it doesn't feel as gratuitous.  It's like the Zelda equivalent of a brawler.

In Majora's Mask, the item-trading quest from Link's Awakening evolves into a full-on adventure game: a network of NPCs whose lives and schedules progress over the course of three days, and whose stories often interconnect in surprising ways.  This is often (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights) promised (http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=24) but seldom delivers anything (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenmue) interesting (http://eblong.com/zarf/gamerev/lexpress.html).  Majora's Mask balances this both by allowing you endless attempts to influence the network of interconnections, but also soaking the whole thing in a palpable dread.  The world is going to end in three days, and so convincing a young woman to wait for her beloved while her family flees the town without realizing that I still have to break the curse on him--well, let's just say that no other game has so impressed on me the feeling of being the progenitor of tragedy.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Friday on October 09, 2008, 11:55:15 AM
I like Majora's Mask mostly because of Tatl's sarcastic "help". I still remember laughing when I asked her about strategies for defeating a bone fish or somesuch and she just replied with "what the shit, Link. how the hell should I fucking know this shit! you figure it out."
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on October 09, 2008, 12:31:43 PM
I played 4 Swords once with 4 people and 4 GBAs.

 ::D: ::D: ::D: ::D: ::D: :ohshi~: :ohshi~: :ohshi~: :ohshi~:
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Fredward on October 09, 2008, 12:35:31 PM
I played 4 Swords once with 4 people and 4 GBAs.

 ::D: ::D: ::D: ::D: ::D: :ohshi~: :ohshi~: :ohshi~: :ohshi~:

So did I. After about 3 hours, we were, respectively, :angry:, :MENDOZAAAAA:, :THATWAY:, and :;_;:. That game nearly ruined our friendship.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 09, 2008, 12:37:37 PM
at least you didn't play with me

i am the helpfullest person in the world when i have bombs
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on October 09, 2008, 12:52:11 PM
:objection: LIES
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on October 09, 2008, 01:12:15 PM
MEDIC
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 09, 2008, 01:14:05 PM
I want there to be a hundred games that unapologetically rip off Majora's Mask.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: on October 09, 2008, 01:16:08 PM
Shadow the Hedgehog II: Mijola's Mask.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Thad on October 09, 2008, 09:14:04 PM
Sharkey kept throwing me into the wall.   :sadpanda:
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on October 09, 2008, 09:25:10 PM
Four Swords Adventures brings back happy memories of Chip and Dale: Rescue Rangers.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Norondor on October 09, 2008, 09:49:56 PM
Happy is maybe too strong of a word.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Classic on October 10, 2008, 12:49:25 AM
FatCat was my BITCH*.





*And also maybe my younger brother did most of the "work".
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Guild on October 31, 2008, 10:18:02 AM
I'm on the last dungeon of Phantom Hourglass and I've nearly completely lost my will to play it.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Arc on October 31, 2008, 11:26:08 PM
I'm on the last dungeon of Wind Waker / Ocarina of Time and I've nearly completely lost my will to play it.

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/Bon_Bon_2009/scruffy-1.jpg) Next to last technically, but I know the feeling.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: on November 04, 2008, 12:02:46 AM
Arc just what is that Thread Icon from.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Guild on November 04, 2008, 12:16:11 AM
Clearly it's Zelda with the family jewels on her forhead.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Dooly on November 04, 2008, 09:33:44 PM
Arc just what is that Thread Icon from.

Quote from: Thread Topic
Zelda Sucks

I'd imagine it's Zelda... sucking... uh, something...  :>_>:
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on November 04, 2008, 09:45:09 PM
A delicious chili dog.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Disposable Ninja on November 04, 2008, 09:48:52 PM
Hylian slang for Dodongo Dong.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: on November 04, 2008, 09:49:39 PM
Actually, Alex found it. There's no sucking going on, just standard fucking.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Alex on November 04, 2008, 09:52:08 PM
It turns out that we'd been misled this whole time! (http://rule34.paheal.net/post/view/113925?search=Princess_Zelda)

Also, nsfw so I made it a link instead!  Good for me!  :wheeeee:
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Defenestration on November 04, 2008, 09:52:40 PM
Still, artful image editing.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Spram on January 27, 2009, 06:24:38 PM
playing this horrible and unfun Zelda 2 arcadey game (http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/freeware_game_pick_the_legend.html) and watching how link has to (SPOILER)turn on torches to open a door made me realize that a new Zelda game doesn't need new ideas, they just need to get rid of some old over-used ones. LIST:

The next Zelda game should not have:

01. Puzzle where you must light a torch to open a door.
02. Secret Found jingle every time you do anything.
03. Keys in Dungeons*
04. Treasure chests**. Ok, maybe one or two, but every item doesn't have to be in one.
05. Bosses that are weak to the item you found in the dungeon.
06. Slingshots, it's just a shitty bow and arrow.
07. Pressure Buttons
08. Hyrule Fields
09. Dungeons that are disconected from the rest of the world.
10. Elemental Dungeons.
11. All Dungeons.
12. Pretending to have a story, instead of  shit story I rather just start outside the sword guy's cave.
13. Coming of age story
14. Zelda not playing an active role.
15. Pushing Blocks
16. Heart Pieces (give me the full thing)
17. Secret caves with worthless shit in it.
18. The Master Sword.
19. Half-assed attempts at continuity.
20. Ugly Villagers
21. Map and COmpass for every dungeon (if there are any)

*First three dungeons in Ocarina managed to have no keys
** First two Zeldas had no Treasure Chests

I would actually like to see these things come back:

1. Burning Trees
2. The Ladder
3. Roc's Feather

Also, there's a arcadey sidescrolling Zelda here just in case you scroll past my nerd list: http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/freeware_game_pick_the_legend.html

http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/freeware_game_pick_the_legend.html

http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/freeware_game_pick_the_legend.html
http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/freeware_game_pick_the_legend.html

FREE GAME (http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/freeware_game_pick_the_legend.html)
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on January 27, 2009, 07:52:16 PM
That guy honestly seems skilled enough that he doesn't have to resort to transparent plagiarism.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Lady Duke on January 27, 2009, 07:56:41 PM
I loved Roc's feather.  It was my favorite.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: LaserBeing on January 27, 2009, 08:13:40 PM
That guy honestly seems skilled enough that he doesn't have to resort to transparent plagiarism.

That's a pretty unfair assessment of a free piece of fanart he made in his spare time out of affection for the series and to take his mind off the stress of the actual project he's working on.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on January 27, 2009, 09:06:24 PM
But it's not fanart.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Zaratustra on January 27, 2009, 09:21:03 PM
it's art and made by a fan

and it wouldn't be a tenth as popular if it didn't have the zelda theme
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on January 27, 2009, 09:23:17 PM
A fan of what though?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Niku on January 27, 2009, 10:30:13 PM
I kind of enjoyed it until I got stuck underwater forever somehow.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Arc on January 27, 2009, 11:04:31 PM
and it wouldn't be a tenth as popular if it didn't have the zelda theme

Precisely. It works as a sly introduction to his other works, (http://www.konjak.org/index.htm) which in my eyes present a bit of a prodigy. They animate equal to that of Paul Robertson's works.

Quote from: Joakim Sandberg
My name is Joakim Sandberg, I am 22 years old and I dream of making games, plus I do make games.

Games I've done work for include:

American Dragon - GBA
X-Men 3: The Official Game - GBA
Justice League Heroes: The Flash - GBA
Contra IV - NDS

I'd murder one thousand baby robots to have a focus such as his.


Quote from: Joakim Sandberg
There's more but I can't remember!

:nyoro~n: M-maybe he's just trying to act cool?

The website's minimal, super tiny text styling alludes to such.

Or he doesn't want to admit to other projects.

But he admitted to The Flash & X-Men 3, so...

:shrug:
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on January 27, 2009, 11:19:48 PM
Huh, this is the second day in a row that WayForward Technologies (http://www.wayforward.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=4&Itemid=96) has come up.  Is it a sign?  Should I finally pursue my dream of humping Jake Kaufman's leg?

Anyway, I suspect you could throw a handful of darts at that list and have a pretty good idea what he's leaving out.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: patito on January 28, 2009, 02:39:43 AM
Man, how did those guys managed to get away with Contra IV and Shantae.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on January 28, 2009, 10:59:08 AM
Not very well.

PS now that I played that LoP game I realize it was an obvious parody.  For some reason in the Youtoob it just looked like a straight knockoff.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Detonator on January 28, 2009, 04:49:43 PM
Huh, this is the second day in a row that WayForward Technologies (http://www.wayforward.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=4&Itemid=96) has come up.  Is it a sign?  Should I finally pursue my dream of humping Jake Kaufman's leg?

Jake Kaufman makes regular appearances at MAGFest.  Jus' sayin'.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: yyler on March 17, 2009, 03:02:47 PM
http://8tracks.com/teamteamwork/the-ocarina-of-rhyme
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Spram on March 19, 2009, 05:15:27 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like the Wind Wanker, but wouldn't this be annoying?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Spram on April 20, 2009, 05:38:09 PM
Link's Awakening Koholint Island in 3D (http://www.infendo.com/zelda/mithoskuus-3d-links-awakening-map-is-finished/)
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: McDohl on April 20, 2009, 07:05:05 PM
Nintendo C & D in three...

two...
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Romosome on April 20, 2009, 09:43:44 PM
Link's Awakening Koholint Island in 3D (http://www.infendo.com/zelda/mithoskuus-3d-links-awakening-map-is-finished/)

Never realized just how closely-hewn to the Link to the Past map that little place was.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Detonator on June 04, 2009, 10:29:51 PM
First artwork released for new Wii Zelda. (http://kotaku.com/5279554/first-look-at-new-zelda-games-concept-art)  Master Sword-Girl confirmed as annoying talking companion.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Romosome on June 04, 2009, 10:31:43 PM
It just looks like a Wind Waker style Great Fairy, she could be anything.

(not as hot as Midna though)
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Detonator on June 04, 2009, 10:32:55 PM
It just looks like a Wind Waker style Great Fairy, she could be anything.

(not as hot as Midna though)

If she's not the sword, where is the sword?
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Brentai on June 04, 2009, 10:33:08 PM
It's the Queen of Fairies. (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/images/games/tww/characters/queenfairy.png)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_hdTMM9qaU

She bought some nice jewelry for herself.

And considering her only role in WW was related to the bow...
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Detonator on June 04, 2009, 10:52:03 PM
Interesting to note that Link is holding the shield in his left arm, implying he will be right-handed in this game.  Makes sense, considering he was a righty in Wii Twilight Princess, and there's no Gamecube version this time.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Romosome on June 04, 2009, 11:43:42 PM
Link's more noteworthy than Great/Queen fairy there.  He's identical to his Twilight Princess appearance.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: yyler on June 05, 2009, 01:38:45 AM
I thought this was going to be a Steampunk Zelda with a guy who thinks he's Link but isn't
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Romosome on June 05, 2009, 02:03:19 AM
I thought this was going to be a Steampunk Zelda with a guy who thinks he's Link but isn't

my favorite thing about the internet is how fan ideas made up entirely on the spot just because someone thought it was cool become popular enough to grapevine into "THIS IS WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEING MADE"

It's happened to specifically Nintendo a lot
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: yyler on June 05, 2009, 02:04:44 AM
well I knew that wasn't true

but anyway i just remembered the steampunk zelda was already revealed, and it has toon link, so it's better
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Romosome on June 05, 2009, 02:06:08 AM
well I knew that wasn't true

but anyway i just remembered the steampunk zelda was already revealed, and it has toon link, so it's better

...jesus christ you're right

that's hilarious
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Dooly on June 06, 2009, 09:01:45 PM
I thought the boat in Phantom Hourglass skipped steam power and went straight to internal combustion.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 07, 2009, 06:47:34 AM
Spirit Tracks. It has a train.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: François on November 04, 2009, 07:51:54 AM
Man don't I wish I had 340 moneys. (https://www.first4figures.com/component/option,com_myphp/Itemid,3/product,75/)

(http://zedpower.dreamhosters.com/images/misc/vertical_06.jpg)

Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Niku on November 04, 2009, 10:58:00 AM
First4Figures' stuff has definitely been improving from the shit they started out with.
Title: Re: Zelda Sucks
Post by: Dooly on December 09, 2009, 09:21:41 PM
For the most part, Spirit Tracks is a thorough improvement over Phantom Hourglass, and I liked Phantom Hourglass.  The only low point in the game is that it has a lot more sections that require you to blow in the DS microphone.  That shit was annoying in Phantom Hourglass, a pain in the ass in Bowser's Inside Story (specifically the Giant Bowser fight against the train where you could ONLY breathe fire to damage it and had to get Excellent on EVERY attack to win), and it can get downright infuriating in this game.  The rest of it is good enough to make me want to get past the blowing sections, though.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 09, 2009, 09:31:22 PM
Topic title made more appropriate.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 09, 2009, 09:32:58 PM
No, the blowing is easy. This is the least amount of blowing I've ever done. If anything, the train is the worst part--Nintendo has somehow made traveling even more boring, which I thought impossible.

I did have trouble playing songs where you skip a note, but then I figured out that the metronome is there for a reason. I guess before I figured that out, it was frustrating... but once I got that down, it was no problem. I have heard reports that kids with only half a lung can't play it but dang who cares.

It's a really good game, though.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Dooly on December 09, 2009, 09:57:50 PM
Well, the mic in my DS might be a little wonky after I used a can of compressed air to get past the Mike section in Wario Ware Touched because I hated that shit even back then.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 09, 2009, 10:02:42 PM
No, the blowing is easy. This is the least amount of blowing I've ever done.

I'm so glad that you are yyler.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 09, 2009, 10:04:51 PM
Well, I mean, I've blown. I've blown harder for less. This is good.

It turns out that the same guy who produced TP did PH and ST, which kind of weirds me out. TP is terrible, just completely awful. But PH and ST, while slightly flawed, are so so good (considering they are Zeldas).

He's also producing the Wii sequel to TP. I'm nervous for it.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on December 09, 2009, 10:34:42 PM
He also did like half of Wind Waker and a goodly chunk of Majora's Mask. He's pretty much in charge of the series these days.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 09, 2009, 10:35:39 PM
Yeah, he did most of MM and OOT. Actually, I was thinking that ST feels like MM sometimes yesterday, though I can't place why.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Smiler on December 10, 2009, 08:17:24 AM
What did they do in Spirit Tracks that reminded you of Majora's Mask? I wonder this because Majora's Mask is the only Zelda game I liked enough to not quit halfway through.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on December 10, 2009, 09:28:54 AM
I always used to be on a plane or sitting at my desk at work whenever I needed to blow my DS.  Then I swapped out the case and pinched the microphone wire real bad and it doesn't work so good now. So problem solved except now games suck even more when they need me to blow them.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 10, 2009, 09:52:59 AM
What did they do in Spirit Tracks that reminded you of Majora's Mask? I wonder this because Majora's Mask is the only Zelda game I liked enough to not quit halfway through.
I think at first it was the music, but there were things beyond that. Like I said, hard to place. But you do do a lot of work helping people to gain access to more spirit tracks, which I guess counts, and the design on the super evil dude's train kind of reminds me of the moon. I guess I can't really think of anything concrete, but just a lot of things ping my MM memories.

Having gotten to the end game I'd say this currently stands as the best handheld Zelda. It started out laughably easy and steadily progressed to where I was stumped for 20+ minutes at a time.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Catloaf on December 10, 2009, 09:55:22 AM
I'm loving Spirit Tracks except of one thing.  The fucking Train.  
Nintendo has somehow made traveling even more boring, which I thought impossible.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/Bon_Bon_2009/scruffy-1.jpg)

I can even tell that they went out of their way to try and make it not boring, but it is.  

If you have no direct control of movement, it should at least get you to where you're going quickly.  Not in this game!
Slow and monotonous!?  
60% of the gameplay!?  
Other trains that you simply cannot get around that kill you instantly if you hit them and their faster than you!?  
What!?  There's a part with said death trains with a time-limit on it too!?!  
What's that?!  The train that is in the way in that part just waits for you until you're too close to escape!?
THIS GAME IS FUCKING TROLLING ME!
 :perfect:
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 10, 2009, 10:04:42 AM
Pff there is one timed mission and it is two seconds into the game. Plus you can slow those trains down by shooting them; it's just in reverse you go at speed one and can't really outrun them. In truth they travel at about speed 1.5, I think. Anyway, hit them four times and they break for a while, but you can't kill them :[

Trains aren't so bad once you can warp, but they are still annoying. I'd have preferred the Wind Waker style, where you warp to certain points from anywhere, rather than certain points from certain points.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Smiler on December 10, 2009, 10:27:22 AM
I think Nintendo is slowly trying to perfect the worst traveling system in any game ever. Wind Waker was okay until I had to find every fucking triforce piece under the sun, and then in PH I got sick of it at the fog (It didn't help that I was fed up with the rest of the game way before that), and Spirit Tracks sounds more of the same.

"HEY GUYS WHAT CAN WE REPLACE A BOAT AND AN OCEAN WITH?" "TRAAAAAAAIN!"  :happy:
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Metal Slime on December 10, 2009, 07:20:33 PM
I liked Wind Waker. I really did........but yes, the Triforce gathering killed it. I also just finished Phantom Hourglass recently, it was mind numbingly easy for the most part, almost to a point that it felt insulting unless maybe I've just played so many Zelda games over the years that I know what the likely solution to a puzzle is the first moment I see it, still at least Twilight Princess occasionally made me think.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 11, 2009, 03:42:40 AM
So final boss etc

[spoiler]First, INVINCIBLE ROCKET TRAIN? THIS MAKES UP FOR EVERYTHING, NINTENDO. JESUS CHRIST

Second, SIDE BY SIDE TRAIN RACE SHOWDOWN TO THE DEATH WITH A HAUNTED STEAM ENGINE? PERFECT

Third, DO SOME GARBAGE meh ok

Fourth, PLAY THE FLUTE gtfo i hate doing this when it skips notes

Fifth, WHAT THE FUCK THIS BOSS IS ACTUALLY HARD? I AM SHOCKED/ANNOYED AND SHOULD HAVE COME PREPARED[/spoiler]

caps lol
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 11, 2009, 08:01:29 PM
I stopped playing Wind Waker the moment the Triforce hunt started.  Apparently I stopped at the perfect time oh except the very last bit is really the only worthwhile part.

:mahboi: This series is bullshit!
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on December 11, 2009, 08:04:14 PM
are you guys really all this averse to reading a FAQ for maybe 1-2 hours

or did you all enter into a suicide pact where nobody can ever admit it
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 11, 2009, 08:05:52 PM
honestly grabbing the eight shards of whatever piece of triforce took about 10 minutes because i had all the warps

so yall are chumps
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Disposable Ninja on December 11, 2009, 08:25:00 PM
I usually start the Tri-Force hunt before the Earth Temple, when you get the map from Tingle.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 11, 2009, 08:29:01 PM
I didn't actually stop playing because of the Triforce hunt.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Royal☭ on December 11, 2009, 08:31:50 PM
Man, Wind Waker could have been such a great game if it weren't for the goddamn water.  I almost wish for a game of that scope and breadth but instead all connected.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Disposable Ninja on December 11, 2009, 11:24:12 PM
Was sailing really that ball-stomping unpleasant? I thought it was actually pretty fun. More fun than the horse, at least.

Not as much fun as a fully upgraded Druid-Plow while listening to Dragon Force.

Which in turn pales in comparison to running on water as a wolf goddess.

I think I need to make a chart.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 11, 2009, 11:52:36 PM
I think Nintendo just has kind of a hard time balancing scale and travel time. Players want a large, open world, but if you warp through it constantly or travel too quickly the world quickly seems much smaller. Epona was nice in a way, at least in OoT, because Hyrule Field didn't feel overwhelming on foot until you got her, and ever after you got her it wasn't too bad. Epona also helped to enlarge the world by giving you access to the desert and the lake.

Now, say Nintendo wants to make a game where the world is flooded. They can't bar your access to places with pits or walls, like in OoT, so they use plot devices. And they give you your travel method right away rather than later, so they start the world a bit scaled up. This means that at first, you don't mind spending a minute to sail from one island to the next, like running around in OoT. But unlike OoT, you don't get faster transport and it never gets better. It gets mind numbing. WW and PH suffer from that, I think. It doesn't help that PH's warping system is merely a sidestep from WW's already mediocre system. All this could have been solved by giving the player magic sails or something, so they can scoot around faster.

In Spirit Tracks, why don't they let you upgrade your train's speed along with its cars? If some people give you passenger or freight cars, why can't they give you a better engine? It's especially frustrating because END GAME SPOILERS [spoiler]at the end you go REALLY REALLY FAST. It makes me want to find out if there are Action Replay codes to just go that fast in the rest of the game.[/spoiler]

So, yeah, Zelda's traveling system of late is annoying. Notably I haven't played very much of TP, but as I understand Epona is awful in it. It's kind of sad that even though Hyrule Field in OoT is a giant wasteland where the last seven flying sawblades in existence go to die, even that is better than everything else we've ever gotten.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bleck on December 12, 2009, 01:09:12 AM
Which in turn pales in comparison to running on water as a wolf goddess.

I think all third person games could benefit from ripping Okami (or Devil May Cry [or whatever game it was that first did this]) off and having the system where 'the longer you move, the faster you go'.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Norondor on December 12, 2009, 01:23:03 AM
At this point i am inclined to think that the Zelda series could be best improved by Nintendo never making another one. We have reached the absolute limits of what can be done with sword and shield and boomerang and bombs. There isn't anything left anymore, and giving Link a new wind instrument won't change anything.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on December 12, 2009, 01:28:52 AM
Except by and large it's not the puzzles - the things that actually use the bombs and boomerangs - that are getting stale. Phantom Hourglass excluded, those things have been steadily improving. Rather, the things you do in between the puzzles are getting a bit fatigued. Any moment not spent overcoming an obstacle or interacting with an NPC is a moment spent retreading old ground, either from earlier in the series or earlier in the game.

To make the overworld interesting, you have to fill it with obstacles. Which means making it smaller, as you can only make so many small puzzles that can easily be circumvented later on before they start seeming samey.

Incidentally, Twilight Princess missed a great opportunity to have spinner rails leading from everywhere to everywhere.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Norondor on December 12, 2009, 01:36:13 AM
The things you do in between dungeons are original, but not interesting. The things you do in dungeons are interesting, but not original. What a tough.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Disposable Ninja on December 12, 2009, 01:40:25 AM
So, what? Stick puzzles all over Hyrule?

That'd actually be pretty awesome, actually.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on December 12, 2009, 01:50:18 AM
Maybe not anything as flashy as a puzzle, per se, but if you look at the world maps of all the 2D ones, there are obstacles everywhere that require a certain item to solve. Even back before they invented puzzles, Zelda 1 had really tough enemies impeding your advancement until you got certain upgrades. This holds true even for the non-Nintendo-developed ones, though I don't know if it's the same way in Four Swords Adventures.

They considerably decreased the number of overworld roadblocks in the 3D ones, even in the relatively limiting Majora's Mask (can't get into the mountains without arrows, can't get to the canyon without a horse, etc.). Majora's Mask, incidentally, had the smallest overworld of all the 3D ones.

The situation doesn't look much different if you consider the "overworld" to consist of anything not inside a dungeon or dungeon-like cave, but the huge sparse hub is a unique feature of the 3D games of the series.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on December 12, 2009, 04:05:07 AM
Zelda games have steadily given you more obvious assistants and companions, and I feel like they have been improvements in general. I guess I kind of want to find the new Hyrule, crusing on the pirate ship, letting Tetra's crew handle the bullshit if I don't want to. Make them self-sufficient enough that I can trade in 5 minutes of scenic travel and/or minor encounters for a 1 minute loading screen if I see fit.

Or perhaps, a legend of zelda where the overworld, dungeons, and dark world are all connected. Above and below ground. I might be willing to do some knytt level backtracking for those kinds of things.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 12, 2009, 04:49:14 AM
Classic, there are plenty of Zeldas where the overworld/dungeons are connected. The series is called Metroid.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on December 12, 2009, 08:25:01 AM
Alternatively, they can make more Zeldas if they go balls out insane with them ala Majora's Mask.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2009, 11:08:33 AM
Zelda's got a decent enough format now that they can milk it for another decade or so without anybody complaining, as long as they don't go the balls-out Megaman or Tomb Raider route and start copypasting assets.  The only problem is making the Overworld interesting, which they've been obviously trying to fix, albeit awkwardly.  It's a pretty 3D-specific problem which I assume is the result of not being able to constrain outdoor environments as easily (as opposed to OH THERE'S A LAKE TO YOUR LEFT AND A MOUNTAIN TO YOUR RIGHT AND SOME TREES DOWN BELOW GUESS YOU BETTER GO UP).
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on December 12, 2009, 01:33:31 PM
Classic, there are plenty of Zeldas where the overworld/dungeons are connected. The series is called Metroid.

TEHRE ARE NO SOARDS IN METROID!!! WTF ARE YOU TALKIN BOUT!?!

Also I just got a horrifying image of zelda+qtes for some reason. :scanners:
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Royal☭ on December 12, 2009, 01:45:54 PM
Zelda games seem to be increasing the world size, but narrowing the focus of that world down to dungeons.  My favorite Zelda was Link to the Past because even though the game world was relatively huge, there was a lot of stuff to do.  Fights were simple, easy to ignore if you chose, and there were plenty of side dungeons and stuff to explore in-between each dungeon.  Wind Waker was notoriously bad at this part, because sailing just felt empty and the little islands and ships were pretty much all the same thing.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2009, 02:14:44 PM
I think that's the nail on the head there.  The sailing isn't what's wrong with Wind Waker, it's the sailing and then finding nothing.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on December 12, 2009, 02:56:08 PM
I think that's close to it, but not actually the truth of it.

(http://doom.pyoko.org/seaChartMap.gif)

Don't forget to add finding the Map Fish to almost every single tile.

It bugged me over time and it really bugged the Hell out of me in Ocarina of Time, but I think the real diminishing joy from the Zelda series harkens back to LttP again. Back when the Overworld was itself a massive mega-dungeon full of incredibly fun bonus rewards and challenges and stuff.

What bugged me about Ocarina of Time was that the world was hollow. Exploration almost always yielded nothing of import save for Heart Container Pieces. If you were really astute, you could find an extra shield or a bottle or something, but who cared? Ocarina of Time was easy for it's time and money was thrown at you faster than you could ever hope to use it, particularly since, surprise, there was nothing to use it on.

Then Majora's Mask hit and somehow, we had a Zelda game that "got it." What was that it? All the extra stuff. All the extra powers and side-quests(many of them better written and more interesting and powerful than the storylines of entire Zelda games, past or present.) The extra masks, many of which actually gave legitimate tweaks and benefits! I can't recall entirely, but I also believe they actually expanded on the use of money a tiny bit and thus that held more weight as well.

This brings me to that map above. I felt Wind Waker was a bit of a compromise. The ocean was not as tedious or empty as many people feel, but it creates an illusion of such because it was about half as empty as you thought. Doesn't make sense? Consider, say... the Beedle Boat Shop. How many of us actually went for his SUPER BONUS MEMBERSHIP CARD? It was a bitingly clever joke and parody, but it was ultimately hollow: your money was next to meaningless and never really needed and the things he sold you weren't all that important unless you were some sort of clown who chronically ran out of basic materials. And those were probably in bushes anyway.

There's a world of difference between finding a new Mask, killing a Biiiig Octo, and discovering an interesting island vs... another heart container piece(which is a terrible focus of exploration, in my opinion. Your brain eventually begins to figure that only one in every four discoveries was worth the time.) I think that's the crux of it.

So more Majora's Mask. More options. More things that aren't strictly necessary to beating the game, but can satisfy a wide variety of curious players and play styles! I want to see a map like the one above with an extra 50% of the nodes colored in with [FANTASTIC GAMEPLAY ITEM]!
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 12, 2009, 03:09:30 PM
Majora's Mask has always been and probably will always be the best Zelda, in every sense, and anyone who does not agree is either an idiot or stupid. The only improvements any Zeldas have made are PH and ST in terms of reusing items from old dungeons in new dungeons, but MM is still better than those. And it was created in under a year!

I think the problem is that OoT was considered so good by almost everyone, and the short turnaround and series-disjointed premise turned a lot of people off of Majora's Mask. Besides, why care about the sequel when even after its release people are still raving about the first one? Even today, on best-of lists, OoT is high up the list and MM is low, if it even places. It's disgusting.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on December 12, 2009, 03:36:47 PM
I went for the Beedle membership card... because I used lots of bait. Not just for fish-guy, but also for Fun With Seagulls and screwing with mice's heads.

I don't mind heart pieces as such, because the challenge is its own reward for me, but absolutely yes are masks the best thing the series ever had.

The Gamespite Fun Club recently played Twilight Princess, and at the end, we concluded that the biggest single problem with that game was that they had all these interesting subsystems and minigames, but they gave you the tutorials for all of them right at the start of the game, rather than at the moment where they were actually used.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on December 12, 2009, 07:52:17 PM
When they were quite content to give you a new explanation on what the hell a red rupee was every time you booted the software.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Royal☭ on December 12, 2009, 09:30:59 PM
Basically, instead of giving us Epona to traverse a huge landscape, they should just give us a smaller landscape with things to do.


Also rupees should stop being used as rewards.  It's dumb and makes me disinclined to do things.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2009, 09:40:55 PM
Heart Pieces aren't a whole lot better.

Missiles in Metroid are somewhere between heart pieces and rupees.

Point being, if Nintendo wants us to scavenger hunt, they need to start coming up with stuff that's worth scavenging.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on December 12, 2009, 09:45:41 PM
Every time I start a new Zelda game I realize I can't jump and start throwing a fit until my brother tells me to shut up because you can never jump in Zelda games.  But it gets me every time.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Disposable Ninja on December 12, 2009, 09:56:25 PM
I want to see more weapon diversity in Zelda, myself. I'm always disappointed when I find out that my badass new dungeon item (be it the Megaton Hammer or stylish Morning Star) isn't and never will be anywhere near as efficient as the Master Sword.

In the next Zelda, let Link choose between the Master Sword (medium damage, 3-4 hit chain), Megaton Hammer (heavy damage, 2-3 hit chain), and battle gauntlets (light damage, 5-6 hit chain). And then let him learn (read: find) new combat techniques for each weapon. And then find upgraded versions of each weapon while exploring Hyrule.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Norondor on December 12, 2009, 09:58:01 PM
In the next Zelda, let Link choose between the Divine Mirror (medium damage, 3-4 hit chain), Glaive (heavy damage, 2-3 hit chain), and Prayer Beads (light damage, 5-6 hit chain). And then let him learn (read: find) new combat techniques for each weapon. And then find upgraded versions of each weapon while exploring Hyrule.

swell idea
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on December 12, 2009, 09:59:04 PM
Go play Devil May Cry.

Rather, Link should be able to use his tools to circumnavigate or gain awesome advantages in combat. Instead of the current system of "Use X to break X Obstacle, Use Y to break Y Obstacle, never use anything but Sword to fight." Link to the Past did this exceedingly well, as did Majora's Mask and Ballad of Windfish. (biiiig spells, charge boots, roc feather, maaasks and fooorms)

I can't recall the last time the Bow and Arrow wasn't used exclusively for puzzles, Light Arrow gimmicks, or "Generic Out Of Reach Enemy."
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on December 12, 2009, 10:15:38 PM
Be careful doom. You are edging dangerously close to suggesting that there be a link without a boomerang. That would be sacrilege.

EDIT: Yes you twats, I am indeed suggesting that sacrilege is a good idea.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 12, 2009, 10:15:56 PM
in oot the megaton hammer does the same amount of damage as the master sword just as fast but you cant shield with it so ???

the giant blade though, that thing hurts baaad
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on December 12, 2009, 10:18:23 PM
Yeah I think the "moar weapons" boat has sailed and somehow it hit an iceburg and there were no survivors.

Oh cool, a sword that's twice as strong as my default sword and jeopardizes a too easy game! Awesome! That quest chain was worthwhile!
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: LaserBeing on December 12, 2009, 10:33:58 PM
Weapon variety is not the issue. The issue is that every boss battle is a puzzle with only one solution, and that solution is always blindingly obvious (i.e. use whatever weapon you just found in the current dungeon, hit monster in large googly eye, whack it with your sword while it's dazed, repeat). In the original Zelda, you could use arrows to beat the boss or you could use bombs or the rod or whatever. Nowadays if you do not follow the exact step-by-step plan that is clearly laid out for you, you will not pass. Essentially, Zelda boss fights are not enough like Metal Gear boss fights.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on December 12, 2009, 10:37:10 PM
I think that the bow was used to passable effect in the moblin shootout sequences in TP. I also think Doom neglects that the bow is very useful against most enemies, just not necessary.

I think that alternate forms are a BAD idea given what we are complaining about in the zelda formula. Though it will take me a minute to explain quite why.

I think that if Zelda wants to keep having Link ride on transportation the key is to ensure that this mode of transportation is a useful constant, and not in any way feel like it limits my choices. If I am going to be crusing around the ocean on the king of red lions, I had better be well able to fire arrows, look through my telescope, at the very least not constantly have to use the sail to keep the boat moving.

If I am going to be riding around with Epona, Epona had better not be useless for more than half the game while I am a fucking (badass) wolf. I'd better be damned good at getting on and off (haha) so that the transition between walking and riding isn't jarring. I also want destroying enemies on horseback with my arrows and boomerangs and bombs to be just as possible as on foot.

Riding a mode of transportation should augment my mobility and versatility rather than strictly limit it. Note: Haven't played the DS zelda games.

While alternate forms are used to great effect in MM, it seems like they run the risk of being just as restrictive and frustrating as the transportation schemes we're complaining about. As cool as being a wolf was initially, the wolf form became stale towards the late game. Sections where I was forced to use the wolf form seemed obnoxious to me because I traded in virtually all of my normal toolset for nothing worthwhile in exchange (except perhaps to see more of Midna). More forms seems like inviting an even more limited array of tools with substantially less versatility involved. Or worse, dungeons where the reward is simply a rehash of something you've already gotten for your new form, e.g. the bow being a replica of the slingshot in OoT.

Finally, while I would like tools to be of more use in terms of exploration or problem solving (esp. "solving" moblins. Fuck those guys) outside of the dungeon that they're found in, my instinct says that even if this were done, to great effect, Yahtzee would still complain about other weapons having no point, echoing everyone else. I haven't played enough games lately... I'm not sure what makes weapons and tools unique, useful, and increase in usefulness as you explore their potential without encouraging the kind of over-specializing in one tool that makes people annoyed when using a different set of tools is required, or worse forget that the other tools are at all useful.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2009, 10:41:06 PM
Combat is a concession to the series' roots at this point.  Any combat that isn't integrated with the puzzles (like most bosses) is basically short and to the point.  Link can beat everything by jumping-slicing and that's just the way Miyamoto likes it.

The 2D Zelda games, at least up to the Advance generation where I haven't had a chance to sample, all made very good use of the various items having their advantages and drawbacks in combat.  Hell, the GB/GBC games made it viable to fight without the sword equipped at all!  I think like Doom said, if you need your 3D combat system to be rounded out you should go play an actual 3D combat game.  The 3D Zeldas are basically Adventure games with some vague Action thrown in to keep the "ADVENTURE GAMES ARE DEAD" people off their scent.


...I am not reading the 2 replies that popped up while I was typing this as they seem like a load of toss.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on December 12, 2009, 10:48:29 PM
Lee-Ham's is spot on, Classic's is on par with whatever the fuck Classic posts(he likes to hear himself talk about things he is wrong about?)

Also I was dismissing Disposable Ninja for proposing that Link should have the Master Sword and an option to swap to Athena's Blade/Ifrit Gauntlets. In Link to the Past, I could brandish an Ice Rod, a Fire Rod, three different colossal fuck AoE spells, charge at my foe with Pegasus Boots, my titan gloves could throw rocks at enemies(in all 3d games, they're used exclusively to move puzzle objects), I could throw bombs, a boomerang, shoot it with the hookshot, shoot them with the bow and arrow at range, hell I could summon a magical barrier around myself and bump into shit or use another rod to produce a magical red block to also throw, turn INVISIBLE!, sprinkle them with magical dust for almost no real reason, or actually stab them with my sword.

Seriously look at this inventory. (http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda03Items.php)

In almost every current Zelda game, cut away everything but "throw boomerang, bomb, or hit with sword." Most enemies are in fact invulnerable to most applications of arrow/hookshot.

If anything I'm wondering why in a move to a "greater" game engine(2D to 3D, given common wisdom and not my own) that my Zelda games are worse off than my Devil May Cries, where I get my choice of 3-10 weapons and 5-10 guns and so on.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on December 12, 2009, 10:52:53 PM
Looking over and comparing item lists, it's weird that Ocarina of Time has almost as many miscellaneous and wacky items, but they're invalidated infinitely faster. Several of them don't last you past the tutorial dungeon. What is the cause of this, built into the very game itself?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Disposable Ninja on December 12, 2009, 11:06:42 PM
When I suggested a more weapon variety, I was going off what Doom wrote about there not being enough rewards from exploration, not out of some inexplicable desire to see the game turn into a Devil May Cry clone.

I was thinking about how in Twilight Princess you would find the Sword Master found all across Hyrule, and how he'd teach you a variety of techniques. I just figured, hey: triple that.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on December 12, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Improved Link Combat would be nice. Wind Waker did it a little too subtle, but it was a nice nod to the player that the only way to actually beat the game was to be capable of performing every combat move in the game.

I was more ragging on you for combat variety. Link works well with his iconic style, now if only that style involved more than Jump-Slash or Slash-Three-Times. At most, I'd suggest maybe a single dramatic update(option to drop shield for off-hand short sword? Working Bow and Arrow/Boomerang/Hookshot into active combat and combos, not one shot uses for stuns?)

Exploration for combat rewards adds something slightly more interesting than Heart Pieces/Rupees, and if you have split paths of progression(beat Tutorial Dungeon, Dungeons 1 and 2 open up. Beat Half-way point, Dungeons 6, 7 and 8 open up) would allow unique styles to emerge. Guys who find the Arrow Master and clear Dungeon 7 first for Sword Technique Alpha will be different than guys who found the Double Long-Shot and beat Dungeon 8 first.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on December 13, 2009, 01:18:38 AM
Edited previous post to contain less crazy and possess something resembling a cogent argument. Thanks to doom for pointing out it did not actually make any sense.

I like the WW approach to fighting, where combat is made breezy and awesome by a consistently applied QTE. What surprises me looking back at Link's Awakening (that's the one with the wind fish) in contrast to LttP/OoT is that the latter is more interested in making using your tools convenient for you. Whereas the former makes up for its apparent item limitations by giving you fuck-awesome combinations of shit to do with your items. Bomb+arrows being amongst the most entertaining. With the option to have three items ready at a time, I'd really like to see more practical and fun item combinations. The TP hook-dealie would be awesome if you could use it in tandem with any kind of offensive tool, instead of just pretending to be a green spider-man. The spinner would be a tiny miracle of awesome if you could use it and bombs in tandem to make ridiculous jumps.

Finally, I had really forgotten how much I missed having screen clearing spells. As well as the option to use the screen fire spell to instantly light every lightable thing in a dungeon room. ::(: I wonder why the series is moving away from Link having a magic meter.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on December 13, 2009, 09:10:51 AM
Your post makes a bit more sense but I must contend that you are lumping in Majora's Mask Transformations(the one example of Alternate Forms being absolutely awesome) with all other instances of Alternate Forms. We're arguing for more variety and use of items and Majora's Mask was pretty much King in this regard.

They added the three forms of Deku, Goron and Zora without impeding the natural flow of traditional items you find in dungeons and added all the masks on top of that! (http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda06Masks.php)

I can recall that all three were useful at various points in combat and that I would swap constantly, rather than other 3D Zelda Games practically punishing me for not going Sword and Board.

So yeah Combat is the best when the player is allowed to paint the picture in items!
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on December 13, 2009, 09:54:05 PM
The only problem is making the Overworld interesting, which they've been obviously trying to fix, albeit awkwardly.  It's a pretty 3D-specific problem which I assume is the result of not being able to constrain outdoor environments as easily (as opposed to OH THERE'S A LAKE TO YOUR LEFT AND A MOUNTAIN TO YOUR RIGHT AND SOME TREES DOWN BELOW GUESS YOU BETTER GO UP).

Most of the complaints in this thread go back to "more 2D Zeldas please".  I am okay with that.

I would add "make the minigames optional."

Also, I am gathering from the chatter here that I really need to play Majora's Mask.  I have a copy of the Cube release that I got as some kind of preorder bonus with Wind Waker or something; maybe I should bust that out one of these days.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on December 13, 2009, 09:58:34 PM
The Gamecube version has some crash bugs, some of which are unpredictable, all of which are irritating due to the limited save system. You can lose a lot of progress. I have noticed one thing that consistently causes a crash, though. When you're using a powder keg, don't let the explosion appear on-screen. (I've heard that the Ocarina of Time ports to the Gamecube have similar issues, less commonly.)

It's quite unfortunate (and uncharacteristic of Nintendo) that the port is so buggy. The version on Virtual Console doesn't have this issue, and also runs at a higher resolution, but N64 Virtual Console games don't support rumble for some dumb reason, and it's obviously not an option if you don't have a Wii sitting around, or don't want to spend ten bucks.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Norondor on December 13, 2009, 10:01:23 PM
Most of the complaints in this thread go back to "more 2D Zeldas please".  I am okay with that.

Sort of; though mine was subtle, i think that it would be best if NINTENDO stopped making Zelda games, because apart from MM, all the best ones were by Capcom or Clover.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 13, 2009, 10:10:24 PM
I finally managed to beat Spirit Tracks tonight; the final boss comes in multiple parts, which is fine, but half of said parts are annoying. Then again, the other half fucking rule.

Still, I liked it a lot. Handheld Zeldas tend to be better than console ones, I think.

Anyone who hasn't played Majora's Mask should play it, as it is definitely the best Zelda, no question. I am always so mad when I see people rank OoT higher than MM, or worse, don't rank MM at all. Fucking philistines.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Lottel on December 13, 2009, 10:49:58 PM
MM is my second favorite Zelda. Riiiight behind Link's Awakening.

But then again, I have a massive, raging hard-on for LA. So my view on the matter is somewhat skewed.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Norondor on December 13, 2009, 11:04:27 PM
i have probably played Link's Awakening around 100 times. It is a good one.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Disposable Ninja on December 13, 2009, 11:20:55 PM
I haven't had a chance to play Majora's Mask, yet. I tried to get it on Gamecube, but got cockblocked by a couple of Gamecrazy employees who were kind of maybe sure that I could only get a copy if I bought a new Gamecube.

That said, even with all the praise it's gotten, I'm not sure I'd like it more than Wind Waker. For all the complaints against it, justifiably even, I still fucking love it. I liked Sailing, especially during the night phase, even if there weren't that many things to find. I enjoyed the dungeons, mostly for the aesthetics.

Hell, if it weren't for the lack of VA, I thought the cutscenes were some of the best directed sequences in any video game ever.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 13, 2009, 11:34:50 PM
I guess I should play Link's Awakening.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: TA on December 13, 2009, 11:52:36 PM
Is Spirit Tracks's control at all like Phantom Hourglass's?  Because I could not fucking play that game.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Lottel on December 13, 2009, 11:57:26 PM
What is wrong with you people?
Sure there was a learning curve for the stylus. As in you had to play the game for about 5-10 minutes before it was second nature. If it took longer than that, you may need to see a doctor.
How hard is it to tap or move a stylus around? It was precise enough and you moved well enough to do everything nicely. Even attacking was well implemented.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on December 14, 2009, 12:42:51 AM
They changed how you roll, and said they tightened it up a bit, but I don't notice a difference. It's the only stylus controlled game I like using the stylus for, including TWEWY.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on January 03, 2010, 08:49:05 PM
Some people redid the OOT soundtrack with actual instruments because they care too much and it sounds nice sometimes http://www.zreomusic.com/
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Rico on January 05, 2010, 03:20:09 PM
Some people redid the OOT soundtrack with actual instruments
Your ears are bad and you should feel bad.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on January 05, 2010, 03:30:31 PM
that's not what i meant to type
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Burrito Al Pastor on January 05, 2010, 09:06:28 PM
I bought Spirit Tracks because I love Wind Waker, I loved Phantom Hourglass (yes, even the timed super-dungeon), and I love trains.

I beat two dungeons, then traded Spirit Tracks to a friend for a sushi dinner. I enjoyed the sushi a lot more than I enjoyed Spirit Tracks.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Rosencrantz on January 05, 2010, 10:40:22 PM
I finally got around to playing through the forest dungeon. It... was very bland and boring.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: yyler on January 05, 2010, 10:47:06 PM
the first dungeon is awful

the second is not much better

it's a game aimed at women and children, so that's to be expected
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: François on March 20, 2010, 04:30:51 PM
I love Zant. Or rather, I don't love Zant, but I love the role he plays.

The guy is bloated with power he didn't earn, doesn't deserve, and can't handle. He is unworthy of the authority he craves, and he knows it. The flashback to his meeting with Ganondorf is one of the scenes I found the most memorable. It's such a demonstration of sheer frustrated impotence! He will never get the throne. He will always serve people he despises. Things will not change. And he can't take it. He walks outside, alone, facing the terrifying infinite void of the twilight realm. He screams, he cries out in his pitiable high-pitched voice. He throws himself to the floor, bashes his own face on the cold stone in a berserk fit of self-loathing. In a way, on the surface, it's almost comical, but it's a display of crude emotion you don't see often in this medium.

And the thing is, Zant is not crazy. Once he gets his undeserved power, he tries to act like he's worthy of it. For a long time, he completely keeps his cool. There are setbacks, but he sees them as temporary. The way he allows Zelda to live, it almost looks like he's humoring his enemies; just after reviving Stallord, he makes a point of turning his back to Link before teleporting away. But at the final showdown in the twilight palace, it becomes obvious that he's a sham. His façade cracks. He can't resist ranting at Midna, he leaps about in the most undignified way, he contorts his body in positions that make no sense. It's like he's back on that balcony, face to face with his own pathetic self. He's been driven out of two worlds, cornered in the last room of his last fortress, without a hostage or an escape route, without imagination or skill. The only trials he can think of putting Link through involve obstacles he's already defeated, and when that fails, all he has left is a pair of swords he clearly has no idea how to use, another man's brute force, and a natural propensity for flailing around in blind, spastic rage.

And what happens at the very end? His false benefactor is beaten; his god is nailed to the ground by the sword stuck through his gut. Zant realizes, in a rare moment of true lucidity, that Ganondorf isn't worthy either. The Gerudo is confident, cunning, talented, almost suave, everything that Zant is not, but he too uses borrowed power to selfish ends. In a suicidal act of spite, he deals the final blow, and destroys the source of his own immortality. That was the only last word he was ever going to have.

Yeah I've been watching a TP LP, how'd you guess?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on May 30, 2010, 09:44:30 AM
Did you hear about rumors (http://www.zeldainformer.com/2010/05/more-zelda-wii-information-leaked.php)?

I bet we learn more about this game at E3.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on May 30, 2010, 12:58:58 PM
Quote
The current name of the girl in the picture is Adelle.

Oh great, as if I didn't have enough trouble finding porn of the chick from FFTA2.

Closest I've seen is the one where she's a Malboro.

You know the one.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on May 30, 2010, 07:57:21 PM
No, no I don't.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Smiler on June 13, 2010, 07:29:03 PM
http://www.zeldainformer.com/2010/06/breaking-news-latest-zelda-wii-rumors-confirmed.php (http://www.zeldainformer.com/2010/06/breaking-news-latest-zelda-wii-rumors-confirmed.php)

It's not a lot of info, but now you get to hear this stuff again at E3.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bleck on June 13, 2010, 07:32:07 PM
I really, really hope that the motion controls don't ruin this.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: blah on June 13, 2010, 08:08:33 PM
Hope this is all true. Drastic changes like these will make Zelda relevant again.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on June 13, 2010, 09:02:41 PM
(http://hundredcoins.org/brentai/images/zordiana-zordon.jpg)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on June 14, 2010, 08:11:46 PM
I really, really hope that the motion controls don't ruin this.

They could.  Or they could be the best thing to happen to Zelda since 1993.

I've read Miyamoto's talk about how Zelda's gotten too complicated and needs to be simplified.  Really that could mean one of two things:


OR
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Smiler on June 14, 2010, 08:27:30 PM
They are adding a HERO MODE! Which will probably just be a normal mode. All it does is make the monsters have more health and get rid of the super guide thing.

The super guide isn't a tutorial, so you will probably still have those out the ass, even if you aren't playing wussy fairy mode.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 14, 2010, 09:49:27 PM
When they said it had gotten too complex, I interpreted that to mean that there was too much extraneous bullshit that they felt they needed to explain. Too many collectibles, so that it was no longer feasible to expect the player to remember what each one does - hence telling you what every one of them is when you pick them up. Too much distance between destinations, so your sidekick keeps telling you where you're going and why. Too many stock puzzle elements that only do one thing, so that every time they show up they give a brief primer so you're not sitting there trying to remember what that particular geegaw does.

The remedy to that kind of complexity is streamlining: Just a few basic kinds of resource, with multiple uses. A re-tuning of the storyline and overworld, so that the challenge is not "where am I going" but "how do I get there." A few kinds of general puzzle element that interact in complex ways. With a reduced need for making sure the player actually knows how to play, more gameplay value can be found in demanding the player play well, which recent games have shown that Nintendo hasn't yet forgotten how to do.

I see nothing but good things coming from that perspective, provided that's what they meant by complexity. And I'm fairly confident it is; the other kind of complexity hasn't increased in half the series' length.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: blah on June 14, 2010, 10:18:31 PM
When they said it had gotten too complex, I interpreted that to mean that there was too much extraneous bullshit that they felt they needed to explain. Too many collectibles, so that it was no longer feasible to expect the player to remember what each one does - hence telling you what every one of them is when you pick them up. Too much distance between destinations, so your sidekick keeps telling you where you're going and why. Too many stock puzzle elements that only do one thing, so that every time they show up they give a brief primer so you're not sitting there trying to remember what that particular geegaw does.

The remedy to that kind of complexity is streamlining: Just a few basic kinds of resource, with multiple uses. A re-tuning of the storyline and overworld, so that the challenge is not "where am I going" but "how do I get there." A few kinds of general puzzle element that interact in complex ways. With a reduced need for making sure the player actually knows how to play, more gameplay value can be found in demanding the player play well, which recent games have shown that Nintendo hasn't yet forgotten how to do.

I see nothing but good things coming from that perspective, provided that's what they meant by complexity. And I'm fairly confident it is; the other kind of complexity hasn't increased in half the series' length.
If this were any company other than Nintendo I would have said it might be time to bring another dev in to add some new ideas to the series.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on June 14, 2010, 10:37:42 PM
Zelda's entire problem is the fact that Miyamoto kind of gravitated away from it and let a man who claims to hate the first game take control.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 15, 2010, 12:05:59 AM
I dunno, I kind of feel like Aonuma would have been fine if he'd been able to run things his way from the beginning, rather than being ritually indoctrinated with the WAY OF MIYAMOTO as soon as he started working on major Zelda sequels. The original Zelda, Link's Awakening (and ALttP, I guess) and Majora's Mask all represent steps in good directions, but none of them are moving in the same direction.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 15, 2010, 01:36:55 AM
Frankly, I hate the original Zelda too. Eiji Aonuma wasn't just responsible for Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks; he was also the director of Majora's Mask, which is my favorite because of reasons that are not present in the Miyamoto-directed ones, and Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, each of which could also have been my favorite if he'd just finished the damn things.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bleck on June 15, 2010, 01:45:17 AM
Sometimes I play the original Zelda and wonder how such a long and prolific series even spawned from it.

...no, wait. That was Final Fantasy.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Shinra on June 15, 2010, 02:16:26 AM
I think anyone who hated the original Zelda is a huge faggot. I haven't enjoyed a single 3d era zelda. Getting lost and dealing with a camera sure is fun, am i rite?

This, by the way, is why 3d castlevania will never be successful unless presented in a 2d format, like the PSP Dracula X remake.

Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: patito on June 15, 2010, 02:27:11 AM
Original Zelda is actually a big pile of shit, getting lost and having to bomb every single square of the map sure if fun, am I rite? (This also applies to original metroid by the way, though that one still managed to be somewhat fun.)

LttP is the best implementation of Zelda I think, you actually know what you're supposed to be doing and where to go, items have more varied functions that later games, even if that one rod that made square blocks was terrible.

And on the Castlevania topic, the original series is pretty much dead. All we have now is SotN clones, which aren't the same thing, but are still fun for different reasons. 3D castlevania could be fun if they'd try to make them their own thing instead of trying to recreate SotN in 3D.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Detonator on June 15, 2010, 04:50:14 AM
Yes, 25 year old games sometimes age poorly, that doesn't mean the central themes behind them aren't solid.

Yeah, Metroid had a lot of bullshit, but the principles it was based on later spawned Super Metroid.  If someone who hated Metroid took over the series, they would have made a game like Metroid Fusion.

Now I don't know the story behind the director of Zelda saying he hated the first one.  Maybe he liked the ideas, but hated the bullshit that caused it to age poorly, or maybe he hated the ideas.  It could make a world of difference.

Even though I don't enjoy playing the original Metroid, I wouldn't say that I hate it because I appreciate the concept and ideals that weren't quite implemented to their full potential.

tl;dr, stop being stupid
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Royal☭ on June 15, 2010, 05:10:28 AM
I don't think Zelda's biggest problem is a director who hates the game so much as the fans who hate the game.  Wind Waker was one of the best since the SNES era*, with a bright, colorful world and a real focus on exploration.  But fans reacted negatively to the cel-shaded graphics and focus on exploration over combat.  So now Nintendo is focusing more on Ocarina of Time style Zelda, which is darker and more combat oriented.  Whether you enjoy the first game or not, there's a clear difference in how the post-64 Zelda games are geared towards combat and dungeons versus the pre-64 focus on exploration and puzzle solving.



*Though not without problems, such as its too large world map.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: blah on June 15, 2010, 06:25:50 AM
Frankly, I hate the original Zelda too. Eiji Aonuma wasn't just responsible for Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks; he was also the director of Majora's Mask, which is my favorite because of reasons that are not present in the Miyamoto-directed ones, and Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, each of which could also have been my favorite if he'd just finished the damn things.
Also Aonuma's stated goal was to make a Zelda better than Ocarina of Time. A big part of this has to do with the love fest spawned from that game. Now every Zelda has to resemble OOT, heaven forbid exploration becoming impotent or they change the graphics a bit to experiment.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Doom on June 15, 2010, 06:33:26 AM
It turns out that Ocarina of Time was a very servicable Zelda Game and a fucking terrible Best Zelda Game.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on June 15, 2010, 09:45:13 AM
So uh.

Yeah.

Time for more talk about The Legend of Zelda: Erect Penis.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on June 15, 2010, 09:45:54 AM
the bow looked awesome :)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Smiler on June 15, 2010, 09:57:58 AM
I honestly couldn't see any of the cell shading that some people are losing their shit over. This isn't like the early Gamecube games that were cel-shaded as all get out.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Disposable Ninja on June 15, 2010, 10:15:30 AM
Looks kind of like Street Fighter IV to me.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on June 15, 2010, 11:21:36 AM
I never had a problem with the cel-shading so much as the EYES GOD DAMN AAAAAUGH

Cel-shading with a reasonable art style is A-OK.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: blah on June 15, 2010, 11:29:27 AM
They talk more in depth here: http://e3.nintendo.com/iwata-asks/ (http://e3.nintendo.com/iwata-asks/)

Looks as though Miyamoto is keeping a leash on Aonuma. Aonuma looks kind of awkward at certain points if you watch carefully.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: NexAdruin on June 15, 2010, 04:42:22 PM
You completely forgot to mention that they shot a heart and pinned it on the wall with an arrow.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 15, 2010, 05:30:19 PM
And then walked over and picked it up, getting a heart and the arrow back.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: teg on June 15, 2010, 08:54:53 PM
And for those of us who just won't let it go, here's what you've been asking for for the last ten years (http://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/16268409393).
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on June 15, 2010, 09:19:33 PM
(and ALttP, I guess)

...yeah, that's how I think of LttP.  As a parenthetical afterthought.

Now I don't know the story behind the director of Zelda saying he hated the first one.  Maybe he liked the ideas, but hated the bullshit that caused it to age poorly, or maybe he hated the ideas.  It could make a world of difference.

He whined that he didn't know where he was supposed to go.

Wind Waker [...] a real focus on exploration.

...
...that's all.  Just ellipsis.

And for those of us who just won't let it go, here's what you've been asking for for the last ten years (http://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/16268409393).

...for the last ten years they've been asking for a port of an existing game into a format that's been popular since December?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: TA on June 15, 2010, 09:26:16 PM
I think he means a DS port of Ocarina.  Because, y'know.  The DS port of Mario 64 was so amazingly done.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on June 15, 2010, 09:30:01 PM
control issues aside it really was pretty awesome.  It's not like playing Mario 64 with the D-pad gave me cancer or anything.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on June 15, 2010, 09:30:10 PM
well except for this cancer in my left thumb.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: patito on June 15, 2010, 09:32:08 PM
PLAY WITH THE D-PAD
:advice:
RUN ALL THE TIME


Why would you even need to walk in Mario 64 anyway.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Detonator on June 15, 2010, 09:35:16 PM
Yeah, I was kinda hoping for fewer remakes on 3DS (though the Snake Eater one intrigues me because it's not a 13 year old game).

Still, I'm probably getting this pretty soon after release unless it's more than $200 or so.  I'll probably break by the time the 3DS Prof. Layton comes out.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 15, 2010, 09:41:10 PM
I don't remember where I heard this so take it with a grain of salt, but the (Nintendo) remakes were apparently first made as proofs of concept, and progressed so far that they realized that they had a salable product on their hands, so decided to just finish 'em up and put 'em in boxes so the launch lineup wouldn't be so anemic.

They first looked into stereoscopic games with a specially tuned-up version of Luigi's Mansion back in the day. It's not unheard of for Nintendo to internally port older games for the purpose of testing new tech.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bleck on June 16, 2010, 01:44:49 AM
Why would you even need to walk in Mario 64 anyway.

Sneakin' past Pirahna Plants. Sometimes violence isn't the answer.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: patito on June 16, 2010, 03:44:00 AM
Sometimes you are a pussy.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: teg on June 16, 2010, 06:12:51 AM
I think he means a DS port of Ocarina.  Because, y'know.  The DS port of Mario 64 was so amazingly done.
yes I'm sure that the problems of a game that some people hated because it didn't have analog control will carry over to a completely different game on a completely different console that has analog control

There was a tech demo at E3 of the opening sequence, entirely remastered with new models in 3D. It looked neat.

Know what I'm looking forward to? maybe they can smooth out the horseback archery that always vexed me in OoT since now you could presumably move with the analog stick and the top screen and fire with the touch screen.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Disposable Ninja on June 16, 2010, 07:44:31 AM
oh hey look a trailer

Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword E3 2010 Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5V_nauQ5gk&feature=player_embedded#ws)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on June 16, 2010, 07:55:25 AM
:barf: wh- did they capture that in a mirror or something? Link is wrong-handed again!?

In any case, looks like they using the wiim+, and I kind of dig their items.

Also a bit sad to see no magic meter.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: teg on June 16, 2010, 08:29:58 AM
oh hey look a trailer
Can I just mention how much it bugs me that Link doesn't draw his sword properly? It clearly clips right through the sheath. The same thing happened in Twilight Princess.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on June 16, 2010, 08:47:06 AM
Something like unsheathing is really hard to animate properly, when you have all those models trying to interact.  That's why so many games in the 3D era go for the giant-sword-attached-to-back option (Crisis Core even goes as far as to explain that they're held there by magnets).
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: McDohl on June 16, 2010, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: Trailer
Link BASE jumping

FINISH THE FIGHT.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bleck on June 16, 2010, 11:52:15 AM
(Crisis Core even goes as far as to explain that they're held there by magnets).

What about when you're at the beach and he fights with an umbrella? He doesn't even wear a shirt to hide magnets under during those missions.

Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: TA on June 16, 2010, 12:13:21 PM
Obviously they're implanted as part of SOLDIER conditioning.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on June 16, 2010, 07:07:09 PM
He never lets go of the umbrella during that fight.

...wait, unless he casts a spell.  Let me check.

Okay no he only puts his sword away for Limit Breaks which are patently ridiculous anyway.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: JDigital on June 17, 2010, 08:44:38 AM
Can I just mention how much it bugs me that Link doesn't draw his sword properly? It clearly clips right through the sheath. The same thing happened in Twilight Princess.

Swords can't shoot energy bolts either.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on June 17, 2010, 08:54:04 AM
Maybe yours can't.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on June 17, 2010, 09:12:51 PM
I think he means a DS port of Ocarina.  Because, y'know.  The DS port of Mario 64 was so amazingly done.
yes I'm sure that the problems of a game that some people hated because it didn't have analog control will carry over to a completely different game on a completely different console that has analog control

...
...teg, we did not know there was a Nintendo portable with analog controls until a couple of days ago.
...you said "ten years".

I remember the Q&A on Weird Al's site used to say, "Since 1989, people have been asking me, Weird Al, when will UHF be released on DVD, a format which has not yet been invented?"

Can I just mention how much it bugs me that Link doesn't draw his sword properly? It clearly clips right through the sheath. The same thing happened in Twilight Princess.

Swords can't shoot energy bolts either.

See, this kind of response really bugs the crap out of me.  It's like when somebody points out a plothole in Lord of the Rings and somebody else responds that Hobbits aren't real, like that invalidates any criticisms of internal logic.

Granted, people who point out plotholes in Lord of the Rings DO occasionally need to be told not to take shit so seriously.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bleck on June 17, 2010, 09:21:24 PM
I don't think there is a way to make it so that the sword won't clip through the sheath without some immensely complicated and powerful series of magnets that enable complete physical force feedback.

I cannot wait for this to happen and for lightsaber games to actually be good.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Detonator on June 17, 2010, 09:34:34 PM
Granted, people who point out plotholes in Lord of the Rings DO occasionally need to be told not to take shit so seriously.

Thad, do you really want to go down this road with me?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 17, 2010, 10:13:18 PM
There ain't no gettin' offa this train we're on.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on June 17, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
:hi5:
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 17, 2010, 10:25:31 PM
I can't believe I just blew that quote outside of the VvW thread.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: James Edward Smith on June 18, 2010, 06:35:03 AM
Fortunately you only blew the part of the meme that was never funny, was always a tagged on me too post right from the beginning, and that never made any sense.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 18, 2010, 01:37:53 PM
I know! That's why it would have been perfect in the game.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Dooly on June 18, 2010, 02:59:19 PM
Has any real person ever worn a scabbard on his back like that?  I don't think it's physically possible for an actual adult human to reach behind his back and pull out a sword of that size, much less sheath it again.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: teg on June 18, 2010, 06:14:30 PM
I think he means a DS port of Ocarina.  Because, y'know.  The DS port of Mario 64 was so amazingly done.
yes I'm sure that the problems of a game that some people hated because it didn't have analog control will carry over to a completely different game on a completely different console that has analog control

...
...teg, we did not know there was a Nintendo portable with analog controls until a couple of days ago.
...you said "ten years".

I remember the Q&A on Weird Al's site used to say, "Since 1989, people have been asking me, Weird Al, when will UHF be released on DVD, a format which has not yet been invented?"
I just meant a remake/portable version of OoT. :T
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on June 18, 2010, 06:22:10 PM
Has any real person ever worn a scabbard on his back like that?  I don't think it's physically possible for an actual adult human to reach behind his back and pull out a sword of that size, much less sheath it again.

No clue, but I managed to pull it off with a plastic toy sword as a kid. The scabbard would ride up the cross-belt and make removal possible.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on June 18, 2010, 06:43:08 PM
Fortunately you only blew the part of the meme that was never funny, was always a tagged on me too post right from the beginning, and that never made any sense.

Ain't no gettin' offa this train we're on.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on June 19, 2010, 12:16:26 PM
Now I don't know the story behind the director of Zelda saying he hated the first one.  Maybe he liked the ideas, but hated the bullshit that caused it to age poorly, or maybe he hated the ideas.  It could make a world of difference.

He whined that he didn't know where he was supposed to go.

And then he made the fucking Water Temple (http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-nintendo-repents-for-ocarina-s-water-temple-176699.phtml).

Quote from: Destructoid
Aonuma plans to make good by making full use of the 3DS's touchscreen in this upcoming port of the Nintendo 64 game. He says that he hopes to lay his shame to rest by making good use of the touch capabilities, making it much easier to equip and unequip items.

Oh good, THAT'LL make the Water Temple much more bearable: having to constantly switch between buttons and the goddamn stylus.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on June 19, 2010, 03:30:05 PM
Note: The big things on the end of each of your hand are thumbs.  They are usually just as good for hitting touch screen buttons as a stylus.  You might not want to do this while eating pizza, but then, a slice of pizza is more cumbersome than a stylus.

And if you don't want to gunk up your screen with fingerprints don't worry because Nintendo will release a new DS for you in six months anyway.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on June 19, 2010, 11:19:50 PM
You can also use those stupid screen protectors that I use. Yeah, my oily-ass-hands go through about one every two months, but... umm... It's an option for those of you who don't like upgrading.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on June 20, 2010, 12:53:36 PM
The point is that taking your hands off the controls in mid-play for inventory management is not good design.  Maybe in a turn-based RPG, but not something with real-time battles.  Remember using the bottom screen to drop your spare powerups in NSMB?  It sucked.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 20, 2010, 06:16:47 PM
That doesn't preclude being able to switch while paused.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Mongrel on June 20, 2010, 07:04:09 PM
Yeah, doesn't going into OoT's item screen pause your game anyway?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 20, 2010, 07:21:47 PM
Well, apparently he's going to make it so you can switch equipment from the touchscreen without pausing, for easy adding and removing of the iron boots. That is the likeliest interpretation.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Detonator on June 20, 2010, 07:50:05 PM
I played OoT for the first time last year, and thought the frustration from the water temple was a little overrated.  Yeah, it would have been tougher to figure out when I was 12, but I felt like I've faced much more irritating dungeons in Zelda before.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on June 20, 2010, 07:53:06 PM
I note that you can't think of a dungeon by name.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Mongrel on June 20, 2010, 07:55:37 PM
FWIW, I really didnt think the Water Temple was that bad either.

Man... I need to rescue my N64 and play that game again. SO MUCH FUN.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Detonator on June 20, 2010, 07:58:48 PM
I note that you can't think of a dungeon by name.

Of course I remember the Water Temple's name because I've heard people bitch about it for over a decade.  I don't know what point you're trying to make.

but since you asked...

Forest Temple.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 20, 2010, 08:07:26 PM
That is... probably the last thing I was expecting you to mention. I thought at least that one Twilight Realm place in Twilight Princess would be the dungeon that sucks.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Detonator on June 20, 2010, 08:09:44 PM
My memory of TP is pretty hazy since it's been 4 years since I beat it.  You may be right.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on June 20, 2010, 09:01:05 PM
Well, apparently he's going to make it so you can switch equipment from the touchscreen without pausing, for easy adding and removing of the iron boots. That is the likeliest interpretation.

Couldn't you just toggle them with a button?  Didn't they already do that in Wind Waker?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Royal☭ on June 20, 2010, 09:04:53 PM
Water Temple was nowhere near as obnoxious as the opening stealth dungeon in Wind Waker.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 20, 2010, 09:09:07 PM
Well, apparently he's going to make it so you can switch equipment from the touchscreen without pausing, for easy adding and removing of the iron boots. That is the likeliest interpretation.

Couldn't you just toggle them with a button?  Didn't they already do that in Wind Waker?

I actually think it's most likely that they are going to implement it that way.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: patito on June 20, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
The opening stealth portion in Wind Waker wasn't even hard, I wish they had used that mechanic more in the rest of the game.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on June 20, 2010, 09:36:33 PM
It got annoying once or twice when I overlooked the "right" path to go through. Mostly what it did was make me feel like a super-badass when I started taking down moblins a half-dozen at a time.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Royal☭ on June 20, 2010, 09:37:58 PM
My memory of TP is pretty hazy since it's been 4 years since I beat it.  You may be right.

I read this and thought "What?  Twilight Princess was only released in... *checks Wikipedia* ...huh.  The Wii is almost 4 years old.  When did that happen?"

Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: LaserBeing on June 22, 2010, 01:39:07 AM
Has any real person ever worn a scabbard on his back like that?  I don't think it's physically possible for an actual adult human to reach behind his back and pull out a sword of that size, much less sheath it again.

Yes but they weren't full scabbards like Link's.

(http://www.medieval-weaponry.co.uk/acatalog/HW1038Close.jpg)

The hero in Dragon Quest Swords has one like this.

If you slowmo in Smash Bros you can see that Link's sword doesn't actually clip through the scabbard, it physically grows from a little mini-sword omg just like the cartoon
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: JDigital on June 22, 2010, 08:22:10 AM
a wizard did it
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on September 10, 2011, 12:24:35 AM
Gold Wiimote.

God damn it.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Spram on September 11, 2011, 08:45:49 PM
I played Red Dead Redemption and all the time I wished for a Zelda's overworld to be like that.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Spram on September 15, 2011, 07:46:38 PM
Hey bisches, have you seen the new Skyward Sword (http://www.destructoid.com/feast-on-these-tardy-zelda-skyward-sword-videos-211512.phtml) video?

I don't understand what it says but I can see:

* The return of the double clawshot/hookshot, gust jar, Wind Fish? and Minecarts.

* When Link gets an item he makes this face like if he's looking at a newborn. Also, his lips are too sexy.

* I swear I heard a word similar to "balance" when Link starts walking on a tightrope. I find it hard that Japanese doesn't have a word for balance? Same with "item".

* Zelda got back, also, red asses.

*Miyamoto is drawing a dick, no wait, a heart.

* What is that big black thing??

I really hope I actually like this game, I haven't given much a fuck about it because of the motion controls, the cartoony yet not-cool-like-Wind_Wanker graphics and the fact that nothing makes me happy anymore because I'm old but that video was neat. and old. Why don't you guys like Zelda more? It's the best damn series EVER PERIOD

also the game looks really gay
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on September 16, 2011, 07:00:41 AM
* I swear I heard a word similar to "balance" when Link starts walking on a tightrope. I find it hard that Japanese doesn't have a word for balance? Same with "item".

The Japanese LOVE English.  I assume they have words for "pocket" and "monsters", as well as "rock" and "man", but those games are named in English.  Even everyday terms like "milk" -- of course there's a Japanese word for "milk", but they use "milk" more commonly.

(Also apparently they didn't have a word for "heal" prior to Dragon Quest.  Now THAT'S odd.)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on September 16, 2011, 10:01:44 AM
They have a word that sort of means "make well," but it doesn't apply specifically to fleshy things.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on September 16, 2011, 12:23:11 PM
Traditional Japanese vocabulary is only a few thousand words, many of which are things that only the traditional Japanese would care about, like rice paddies.  Everything else is either a compound or a generally descriptive phrase.

Drinking animal milk is a Western thing that they're still just coming to terms with, so no, there isn't "really" a word for it.  There's a term for breast milk but it seems to describe pretty specifically a human set of cockends so when it comes to cow's milk they'll either fall back on either a clumsy construct that literally translates to "moo juice", or they'll just say fucking "milk" if it's in a Western context anyway.

Whther they're in love with English or not, Zelda is a very Euro-Germanic themed series.  For the same reason Japanese people in our media always call their teachers "sensei" in the middle of an English sentence, the nips will try to stick with the appropriate grammatical flavor as often as it's universally understood. 
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Spram on September 16, 2011, 01:13:56 PM
Zelda is a very Euro-Germanic themed series. 

Pretty sure Wind Wanker was very greek. I hate it when you germanics think everything is german. >:(
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on September 16, 2011, 08:46:20 PM
Okay yes I'm sorry all the Zelda games except for that one are based on Germanic folklore.  And maybe Twilight Princess, I've only played it vicariously through porn.

Thanks for calling me a lowlander, by the way.  I'm pretty sure the proper response is to punch you in the blarneys.  C'mere and get yer shiner, ach.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: François on September 17, 2011, 12:09:01 AM
I felt that Twilight Princess is about as Shinto as the series get; they've all but gotten rid of the demiurge goddesses, and the light spirits are basically nature kami. And if that wasn't Japanese enough, there's bona fide kaiju in it.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Romosome on September 17, 2011, 02:45:38 AM
I felt that Twilight Princess is about as Shinto as the series get; they've all but gotten rid of the demiurge goddesses, and the light spirits are basically nature kami. And if that wasn't Japanese enough, there's bona fide kaiju in it.

you're only saying that because you play as Amaterasu
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Spram on September 17, 2011, 12:22:12 PM
Okay yes I'm sorry all the Zelda games except for that one are based on Germanic folklore.  And maybe Twilight Princess, I've only played it vicariously through porn.

Oh wait, you're right!

(http://i52.tinypic.com/1esvm0.png)

Fairies and Elves are Germanic, true. But The cross on link's NES shields? Roman. The Centaurs? Greco-Roman. The Triforce? It's a Japanese symbol (http://japanlifeandreligion.com/2010/09/23/zelda-the-triforce-and-the-hojo-clan/), the Crescent moon and star in the fire temple on Ocarina of Time is Arabic (but was removed because it might offend Muslims, which is ridiculous), The Gerudo are Morrocan with Flamenco music. The Sheikah are obviously Jews. What else, let's see...

Octorocs:Sushi:Japan
The Temples in Zelda 2 are pretty Greek too
The village Link starts out in TP has montain goats, falconry and horse riding... Mongolians.
The guards in Hyrule castle (OoT) have fruity Vatican-like uniforms.
The little leprechaun with the two hats in the train game is Irish.
Are there Pyramids in Zelda games? Oh why yes! Egyptian-like Pyramids!

Basically Zelda mixes the mythology of different cultures as long as they're not black. Unless you're this kid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VytoAoSAzM&feature=player_detailpage#t=472s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VytoAoSAzM&feature=player_detailpage#t=472s)
Skip to 7:55

Ok, so Link is an elf and that's germanic mythology so.. wait, he's not an elf, he's HYLIAN.


Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on September 17, 2011, 12:53:59 PM
The origin of the mythological elements is not as important as the themes represented in their use. Examples:

Link to the Past has a magical other world dominated by capricious and malicious entities, in which ordinary people usually become trapped when they get the rare chance to enter at all, though the hero gains the protection of powers that dwell there and can traverse it freely. That particular depiction of it is rather Celtic, while the more mythological depiction of that realm in Ocarina of Time is comparable to the more strictly Germanic Asgard or Vanaheim, and the idea of losing time by being trapped in a supernatural other dimension echoes the story of Oisín in Tir na nÓg and many other predominantly European stories of travel to other worlds. The depiction of actual elves/fairies/etc. in the series is very distinctly Germanic as well. Speaking of Tir na nÓg, compare with Koholint.

Magic swords themselves show up more often and are afforded greater importance in western European legends than anywhere else. Given revered status and explicitly virtuous powers, stuck in rocks to await their proper owners, that sort of thing. Godly weapons are universal, but the way they are treated in Zelda is very western. This is perhaps most clear in Minish Cap, which has the Picori, who are basically Germanic dwarves mixed with Celtic brownies or Slavic domovoi.

Some mythological references are more universal. Ocarina of Time is basically the monomyth in video game form, even going so far as to include a literal belly of a whale and a trip to the underworld with a boat ride. Wind Waker's great sea has an antecedent in most cultures' myths of a global deluge, which of course goes back to Gilgamesh.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: patito on September 17, 2011, 12:54:43 PM
I'm sorry but all hylians look like elves to me.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on September 17, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Okay yes I'm sorry all the Zelda games except for that one are based on Germanic folklore.  And maybe Twilight Princess, I've only played it vicariously through porn.

Oh wait, you're right!

(http://i52.tinypic.com/1esvm0.png)

I may be misreading your implication here considering that there are two obvious reasons why that's stupid and it's two posts after you whined about people using racial slurs.

Anyway, I guess I should have done this in the first place, too:

Zelda is a very Euro-Germanic themed series. 

Pretty sure Wind Wanker was very greek. I hate it when you germanics think everything is german. >:(

Can you tell me where Greece is?  I'll give you a hint, it's not called the fucking Africa-zone crisis.

Oh, wait, now this is the part where you re-point out the random side elements like Ganon's Incan pyramid and the Gerudo as evidence that it's not 100% centered on a single mythology as proof of... what, that it doesn't make sense to assume that the forest elf wielding an arming sword and escutcheon is more likely to speak a Western dialect than an Eastern one?  Let me save you some embarrassment by giving you some very good advice.

Shut up, Spram.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Norondor on September 17, 2011, 01:16:48 PM
Magic swords themselves show up more often and are afforded greater importance in western European legends than anywhere else. Given revered status and explicitly virtuous powers, stuck in rocks to await their proper owners, that sort of thing. Godly weapons are universal, but the way they are treated in Zelda is very western. This is perhaps most clear in Minish Cap, which has the Picori, who are basically Germanic dwarves mixed with Celtic brownies or Slavic domovoi.

western myth has a lot of magic spears as well, which is why i always find it weird that the only action-adventurey thing i can think of where you play a spear-user is Terranigma, which, while super fun, is a weird statistical outlier in this regard!

I tend to blame it on people not knowing the sort of cool-ass things you can do with a spear and just thinking of them as a sharpened stick, which is a real shame.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on September 17, 2011, 01:18:32 PM
Spears are totally prole weapons, though, unless you are using them for jousting. Everybody knows swords are for heroes.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on September 17, 2011, 01:22:34 PM
I hate to trot out this old chestnut again, but the reason is basically that there were no spear users in Lord of the Rings.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: McDohl on September 17, 2011, 01:36:57 PM
I gotta say, one thing Zelda gets right is when Link picks up the Master Sword.  In most of these games, it's hinted that this sword is hot shit, some call it the Sword of Evil's Bane.  Something mystical, and powerful.  Sometimes, you can even go see it before you can actually claim it.  When you finally do, it's always some sort of grand moment that is iconic of the game.  Walking through the Lost Woods, and the three pendants breaking the seal, or walking through the massive Temple of Time, or the forest clearing in Twilight Princess where it rests...those are the moments of Zelda that stick out in my mind.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Norondor on September 17, 2011, 02:03:26 PM
Spears are totally prole weapons, though, unless you are using them for jousting. Everybody knows swords are for heroes.

tell that to odin and cuchulainn pally

even arthur had a spear
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Lottel on September 17, 2011, 02:06:58 PM
You know who loved spears?

Adolf Hitler
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on September 17, 2011, 04:54:54 PM
Are there Pyramids in Zelda games? Oh why yes! Egyptian-like Pyramids!

Basically Zelda mixes the mythology of different cultures as long as they're not black.

Learned our history from Charlton Heston movies, I see.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on September 18, 2011, 01:44:15 AM
To be fair, step pyramids aren't unique to either hemisphere. It's not wrong, so much as it reveals Spram's terrible racist tendencies.

Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on September 30, 2011, 08:57:21 AM
Wired (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/09/skyward-sword-hands-on-2011/): hands on with Skyward Sword.

LESS time spent bullshitting before you get your sword, which is apparently the bar for Zelda games now.

Sounds like the MotionPlus swordplay is neat, but not crazy about the Stamina Meter stunts.  Not sure I'll get it, and I suppose if I don't that pretty much means I've given up on my Wii, short of modding it to play Xenoblade.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on September 30, 2011, 09:32:29 AM
Pretty sure Erect Penis is the console's last dying gasp here.  Which is fine, I'm ready to play Nintendo games that don't pixelate horribly on my TV.

Skyward Sword itself is tempting just for GOLD WIIMOTE (and the threat that you'll get fucked over if you don't buy it with GOLD WIIMOTE, which I'm not too impressed about) but if you wait a month they'll probably announce a WiiOnU port with native 1080p rendering and a goofy retrofit control scheme that doesn't support the original despite the hardware being perfectly compatible.  Sorry, what were e talking about again?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on September 30, 2011, 09:36:06 AM
Pretty sure Erect Penis is the console's last dying gasp here.

Well, yes, which means if I don't buy it I've given up on the console.

Which is fine, I'm ready to play Nintendo games that don't pixelate horribly on my TV.

How's Dolphin work for you?  I've poked at it a bit but haven't gotten smooth HD play.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Kayma on September 30, 2011, 08:22:24 PM
short of modding it to play Xenoblade.

As an aside, I did just that recently, and was shocked how much easier it is now than when I modded one for Another Code R.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: fullmooninu on October 01, 2011, 03:56:17 AM
i duno.. i guess i'll wait a long while till i play another zelda. The things i liked best in zelda games were teh little things you could read in between the lines, on the sidequests. How intricate the whole in-Zelda world became if you looked very carefully and sustained your disbelief.

That's why Majora takes the prize as the best ever for me. The whole mirror universe apocalyptic groundhog day thing was really really good.

I didnt play the DS ones, or the oracle ones. Maybe the new wii one will be my next, i duno...

what i know is, i get a really funny bittersweet feeling when i see all these brazillian pre-yuppie hipster fanboys... and that puts me away from what once was my favorite series.

Zelda Day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n7dQDPluMo#)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on October 01, 2011, 05:10:05 AM
I preordered the gold remote because gold remote and I don't already have a Wii Motion Plus, but then I also remembered that the gold remote probably won't work in the charging cradle I have for my remotes.  I hate you, Nintendad.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Smiler on October 01, 2011, 07:53:17 AM
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/123768/forum%20post%20pictures/Shigeru_Miyamoto_at_E3.png)

Shut up and get me another beer.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Ted Belmont on October 01, 2011, 03:10:31 PM
Skyward Sword itself is tempting just for GOLD WIIMOTE (and the threat that you'll get fucked over if you don't buy it with GOLD WIIMOTE, which I'm not too impressed about)

 :???:
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on October 01, 2011, 11:43:20 PM
Zelda: Erect Penis works natively with a yellow Wii, but if you've only got a white Wii you'll find it disappointingly impotent unless you give it an extra nut.

Genitals.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 02, 2011, 12:13:52 AM
They make remotes with built-in Motionplus that aren't gold. In fact they've come standard since they first started making them, not that that helps anybody who already had one.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Romosome on October 08, 2011, 12:03:57 PM
The gold ones have motionplus built-in?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 08, 2011, 12:32:14 PM
All new remotes have Motionplus built in. The dongle exists to make the older models compatible. You can tell which kind you've got by checking to see if there's the curved bidirectional arrow logo thing at the bottom, I think.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on November 11, 2011, 07:55:20 AM
Ars likes Skyward Sword. (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2011/11/review-skyward-sword-slashes-zeldas-sacred-cows.ars)  Doesn't sound explore-y enough for me, but customization is a neat idea.

Again, if I don't buy it it pretty much means I've given up on my Wii.  (Well, there's DQ10 coming, I guess.)  It's low-priority at this point, though.

I never finished Twilight Princess, tried Minish Cap but couldn't get into it, and frankly the next Zelda game I expect I'll play is Gunman's Proof.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Envy on November 13, 2011, 03:58:15 PM
Skyward Sword Main Theme Reversed No Sound Effects (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDDAXsgoc5s#)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on November 13, 2011, 06:39:09 PM
You didn't know that?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Envy on November 18, 2011, 01:02:37 AM
25 years and some fans are doing amazing things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyI-58gpic&feature=player_embedded# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyI-58gpic&feature=player_embedded#)!
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Envy on November 21, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
Skyward Sword thus far.
So I got through the first two dungeons pretty easily. The controls are probably the weirdest thing to get used to, but now I'm fighting pretty alright. Your shield will break a lot. There's so many nods to Ocarina of Time it's crazy. Thing's you won't realize until later that hey. YOU KNOW THAT PERSON. The music is awesome and the bosses are really fun. Though the first one will kick your ass if your not immediately awesome at controlling the sword.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on November 21, 2011, 03:02:51 PM
ffffffffffffffffffffff

amazon was trying to charge my old card despite the fact that i deleted it and updated to my new card like a month or two ago and now my zelda order says estimated delivery is next week

i will kill all of the stars in the sky if this is not rectified
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: François on November 21, 2011, 03:12:23 PM
I might be okay with that. Do you have a son, or a daughter, or maybe even a niece or nephew?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Envy on November 21, 2011, 07:31:08 PM
Dungeon 3 was amazing.
[spoiler]Holy shit that was Impa?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Ted Belmont on November 21, 2011, 09:04:21 PM
Envy, no!

Think of the stars!
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on November 22, 2011, 06:20:15 AM
This game never completely lets up on the part where your sidekick describes the cutscene that you just watched if the events within it will have an effect on gameplay. That is the only complaint I have worth mentioning at this point, as I work towards accessing the fifth dungeon.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on November 22, 2011, 05:39:16 PM
yesssss my copy shipped

but won't be here until friday so there goes my next three days off being full of zelda >:|
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Kayma on November 23, 2011, 05:35:41 AM
According to UPS, my copy is still on track for delivery by the end of the day yesterday  :humpf:
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on November 29, 2011, 04:53:52 PM
MY COPY OF ZELDA FINALLY CAME :DDDD

wait

wh

why won't my wii turn on

where is the plug why is there no plug in my wii

what is this mysterious memory from a few months ago

. o O (HEY BROTHER MY WII ISN'T WORKING FOR SOME REASON "HUH THIS LOOKS LIKE YOUR POWER CORD SHORTED OUT OR SOMETHING OH I'M NOT PLAYING MINE MUCH RIGHT NOW YOU CAN TAKE MY POWER CORD I'LL JUST GET ANOTHER ONE SOON")


FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on November 29, 2011, 05:44:03 PM
$3.55 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10830&cs_id=1083001&p_id=5693&seq=1&format=2).
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Friday on November 29, 2011, 06:33:08 PM
98 million years ago, an asteroid in deep space collided with the gravity well of a dying star that then went supernova, deflecting the asteroid onto a new trajectory that will eventually send it on a cosmic pinball journey across the spiral arm of the galaxy, a seemingly chaotic, erratic path that in actuality will end with this asteroid, now the size of a cantaloupe, on a direct course for earth.

The asteroid will hit earth's atmosphere 34 minutes before Niku's new power cord arrives. 30 seconds before Niku plugs in the cord, the asteroid will have lost most of its mass, now reduced to the size of a ball bearing. 10 seconds before Niku turns his Wii on, a bird will have a mid-air collision with the asteroid, slightly adjusting the trajectory.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Friday on November 29, 2011, 06:38:41 PM
But then Niku hits it back into space with his wiimote

and then the power goes off

and a dog bursts into the room and angrily chews directly through the wii completely ignoring any cords
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Envy on November 29, 2011, 07:39:02 PM
2
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 01, 2011, 10:53:07 AM
Apprently Amazon dug some more Gold Wiimote bundles out of the backroom, so I snatched one up before they went OOS again.  I'm fairly certain I just got punked somehow but... eh.

Between that and finding a generous donor of a GC version of TP, I'm having a pretty good week in the "buying out-of-print Zeldas" department.  I'm considering grabbing Majora's Mask off of VC just to make it a trifecta/even $100 of money I don't really have.

(Alternately, I still have a working N64...)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 01, 2011, 04:48:24 PM
Already sold out again.  If the whole "limited print" thing doesn't turn out to be horseshit, I can feel fairly lucky.

Also just noticed the first post of this topic is me talking about how I should pick up TP.  FULL CIRCLE.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Kayma on December 02, 2011, 12:02:56 AM
In a moment of exuberant stupidity, I picked up one of them fancy Zelda styled 3DS systems. So beautiful!!!!...


Except for this dead pixel on the top screen.

Returned the system for another one easily enough, and it --- wow, another dead pixel, almost in the same spot. I don't know much about LCD production, but I thought dead pixels were rare? Either this is a bad batch, or I hit the lame lottery.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Lottel on December 02, 2011, 12:14:36 AM
Send it to me. I'll keep it for you, free of charge.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on December 02, 2011, 07:37:57 AM
My PSP has a dead pixel but I weighed its noticeability against the hassle it would take to replace the thing and decided I'd just keep it and not worry about it.

Supposedly there are ways to fix the damn things, but I haven't had any luck with Flashing Colors Video and haven't tried anything more strenuous.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Envy on December 02, 2011, 08:19:03 AM
Man I've been playing this wrong.
Skyward Sword is Serious Business (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFt0uhQoOqM#)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Envy on December 04, 2011, 10:27:04 PM
Ok that was a pretty amazing ending.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on December 05, 2011, 04:45:38 AM
Good to hear.

Also holy crap this game is kinda long.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Catloaf on December 05, 2011, 08:49:47 AM
Really?  I've already beaten it twice.  Also, there is no real reward to beating hero mode.  :nyoro~n:

However it is fun at the end of hero mode when you have the fully upgraded sword that can skyward strike as soon as link makes the animation that would normally start it charging.

Still, I don't think I'll ever manage to get the Hylian shield in hero mode.  Double damage taken and no way to refill health in a random-order boss rush than can include the final boss!?  :pfff:
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Kara99 on December 05, 2011, 09:00:44 AM
Really?  I've already beaten it twice.  Also, there is no real reward to beating hero mode.  :nyoro~n:

So beating Hero Mode is its own reward?  Thanks for saving me all that frustration of finding out on my own.  Course, at the rate I'm going, I'll never beat the regular game.  I haven't played in about 4 days.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Envy on December 05, 2011, 04:36:35 PM
The final boss was really really easy, or that I'm just great at timing. In hero mode it's probably different. [spoiler]Jesus was that Akuma at the end?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Catloaf on December 06, 2011, 08:22:13 AM
The final boss was really really easy

Yeah, he's a pushover.  I didn't use a single healing item in normal mode and beat him with half my health left the first time I fought him.  I used one half of a red potion++ on him in hero mode, but that's because he was doing around to six hearts per hit.

Hero mode is maddening until you find the first heart medal.  Then it's not much different than normal mode.  So while normal mode has a decent difficulty curve for the most part, hero mode's difficulty is sloped steeply downward.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2011, 08:46:05 PM
So they sell White and Black Wiimote Chargers. Are they gonna sell Gold? I don't wanna put a W Cover on my G Wiimote.  #LightWorldProblems
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on December 12, 2011, 09:17:40 PM
Actually, the white cover looks pretty good on the gold remote due to the white buttons and highlighting already being there
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2011, 10:00:42 PM
B-b-b-but it's got a grey grip too!

Actually hold on.

...

Hmm.

Hmmmmmmmm.

Mmmm..

Nah.

FUCK YOU NYKO FOREVERRRRRRR
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on December 27, 2011, 08:56:25 PM
Nintendo claims that no really there IS a Zelda chronology. (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/12/27/legend-zelda-timeline-nintendo/)

Complete with three fucking divergent post-OoT timelines.

Nintendo's pretty much just been fucking with us on this for the last 15 years.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 27, 2011, 10:30:34 PM
Been discussing that for a while in #finalfight.  I can't quite get a consensus on it but my opinion is that their version is kind of nonsensical, given that LttP - the game in which the events of OoT are foreshadowed (postshadowed?) pretty specifically - somehow derives from a branch of time in which none of that shit actually happens.

EDIT: Though we did conclude that the official timeline suggests pretty strongly that every single thing the Hero of Time did, in every era, just managed to fuck everything up more.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on December 28, 2011, 05:55:26 PM
My favorite part about that timeline is that I was right.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Defenestration on December 29, 2011, 08:33:44 AM
Wouldn't the Adult era just
you know

be the child era but LATER?

Why does it have it's own goddamn branch
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Beat Bandit on December 29, 2011, 08:42:50 AM
Except it means ganondorf never has a chance to go ganon and fuck shit up.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Disposable Ninja on December 29, 2011, 08:48:40 AM
Um... because of Ocarina of Time involved time travel and Link switching between himself as an adult that had been magically slumbering for seven years while Gannon went apeshit wild on Hyrule and himself as a child who was able to maintain the status quo.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Defenestration on December 29, 2011, 09:15:06 AM
I suppose the real question is if we're using Terminator rules or Back to the Future rules.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on December 29, 2011, 09:47:32 AM
Zelda has demonstrated multiple contradictory models of time travel. This is okay because the time travel is magic-based, not science-based.

I'm gonna explain it, though. [spoiler]At the end of Ocarina of Time, Zelda sends Link back in time to undo everything that was fucked up. The timeline he was sent from, the adult timeline, led to Wind Waker, because Link was no longer around to be reincarnated and stop Ganondorf when he came back. The timeline he was sent to, the child timeline, led to Twilight Princess, because he met Zelda with foreknowledge of what was going to happen, and so got Ganondorf executed before he could put his plan into motion. Then, in the what-if scenario in which Link got a Game Over somewhere along the way, Ganondorf won, necessitating his defeat in the war mentioned in the backstory of Link to the Past.[/spoiler] Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: McDohl on December 29, 2011, 12:34:25 PM
That fails to explain why Hyrule is vastly, wildly different geographically from game to game.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on December 29, 2011, 01:05:29 PM
Magic.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 29, 2011, 01:20:35 PM
More likely Hyrule is a country with a much more significant land mass than the tiny portion represented in each game.  The capitol has a natural tendency to move around a lot given Hyrule's chaotic political nature.

One of the country's weirder dynamics is the fate of Zelda to be consistently reincarnated as the land's crown princess.  Unless she's always being reborn as her own granddaughter it implies that the rulership of the kingdom will change hands to a family with a female child once every generation.  The whole "put the Real Zelda to eternal sleep" thing in Zelda 2 probably ushered in an era of previously unseen stability, though it doesn't seem to have done the country a lot of good.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on December 29, 2011, 01:23:51 PM
It rarely specifies how much time takes place between games.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on December 29, 2011, 01:41:18 PM
I THINK LttP referred to the Hero showing up every 100 years, but that still leaves plenty of gaps.  And plenty of Links who appear in multiple games.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Nerd on December 29, 2011, 02:14:56 PM
Wind Waker and some of the other games flirt with this theme, but Hyrule becomes a much more depressing place when you realize Link and Ganon are eternally doomed to hitting each other over the head with foam bats, forever and ever.  The timeline just hammers that point home, especially with the "BAD END" and "EVEN WORSE END" paths.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Lottel on December 29, 2011, 02:44:15 PM
Hell, Link's Awakening proved that even Link's Dreams are plagued with fights with Ganon.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Dooly on December 29, 2011, 03:38:39 PM
Wind Waker and some of the other games flirt with this theme, but Hyrule becomes a much more depressing place when you realize Link and Ganon are eternally doomed to hitting each other over the head with foam bats, forever and ever.

(http://i.imgur.com/s1B4P.jpg)

Foam, huh?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Nerd on December 29, 2011, 04:09:04 PM
He'll wake up in a millennia or two with a bad headache and some kidney stones, but otherwise no worse for wear.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Royal☭ on December 29, 2011, 04:16:08 PM
Is Ganon Dracula?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: McDohl on December 29, 2011, 05:04:32 PM
I dunno.  In any Zelda, have you ever had to attack Ganondorf's first form by hitting him in the head and nowhere else?

Does he teleport around and shoot fireballs at you?

I think maybe the first one, he did.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Beat Bandit on December 29, 2011, 07:13:47 PM
Hell, Link's Awakening proved that even the Wind Fish's Dreams are plagued with fights with Ganon.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Royal☭ on December 29, 2011, 07:24:57 PM
Well the thing is the dreams are made up of Link's experiences, they're drawn from his thoughts. Hence all the recurring characters and places that are familiar to him.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on January 21, 2012, 11:24:42 AM
It's really starting to bug me how huge of a douchebag Pipit is.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on January 24, 2012, 11:02:33 PM
So I thought about it on the way home and it dawned on me why I was having so many issues with Link swinging his sword in the wrong fucking direction all the time.  So I just tested it out and HYUP

The problem is I have a tendency to snap my wrist at the beginning of a lot of specific movements.  This is probably 100% from practicing martial arts where your two main power sources are your hips and your wrist (those big beefy muscles on your upper arm barely do shit but get your hand from point A to point some fucko's face).  Unfortunately the motion controls are set to basically register any sudden jerky movement as a slash, so the moment the wrist snaps the game goes "OKAY YOU CHOSE TO SLASH IN (some random cockeyed direction)" and ignores the rest of the motion.

For the curious: the snap for me comes any time I need to change the orientation of the blade.  For some reason (which is probably incredibly obvious to actual fencers) I always want to do a left slash underhanded and a right slash overhanded, and of course vertical slashes are vertical.

Now whether snapping like that is a good idea in real swordfighting or if you're holding a Skyward Sword as Enlarged as Link is something I don't know and also kind of fucking irrelevant because I don't want to learn a new martial art just to play goddam Zelda.  But there's a whole gamut of little player behaviors like that out there*, and it kind of takes a step towards explaining why people seem to have such a polar "Holy shit this thing is garbage" vs "I don't see what the problem is" experience with the thing.  I find that if you treat the controller like a wand or a small knife or a joystick floating out in space, you're golden.  Get too fancy with the thing and it gets confused, which is a shame, because that's not a function of the 'mote itself, that's the game's designers dumbing the system down to a discrete set of simple and obvious choices.

* Which, now that I think about it, was probably thoroughly tested but not internationally - the Japanese are heavily invested in a particular kind of swordfighting form in which odd behaviors like mine would most likely cause you to cut yourself in the face.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on January 24, 2012, 11:48:55 PM
Japanese swords are only sharp on one side... so...

You're probably doing it "right"?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on January 25, 2012, 11:53:13 PM
Okay, that clinches it.  This game was designed specifically to troll me.

Basically I started thinking, right out of the blue, "Hey, you know what's nice?  I haven't seen a single torch lighting puzzle in this entire game!"



The very next room.

The very.

Next.

Room.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Friday on January 26, 2012, 01:27:03 AM
.                    .

                          |

.                    .

WHAT DO I DO HERE
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: on January 26, 2012, 01:42:49 AM
.                    .

                          |

.                    .

WHAT DO I DO HERE

You could start by running to the room of the three gargoyles. Push in the right tongue and a door might lead you down a staircase into the wall climb. Here, you must choose your next path. You could race up to the observatory, spin the sundial and pass into the room of the golden idols. Once there, push down on their faces to release the doors, that may take you below or lead you into the shrine of the silver monkey. Assemble the statue there and you may be headed for the torch room. If the elevator is up, you could jump into the elevator and descend into the mineshaft. You might climb up the ladder or plow through the stone wall. Find the key and it may unlock the tomb of  ancient kings, allowing you to climb into the spider's lair. If you escape, you may have a chance to sit upon the throne of the Pretender. If the correct door is unlocked, you'll be able to crawl into pit of despair and finally make you way through the cave of size, back to the temple gate. The choices are yours and yours alone. Good luck!
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Smiler on January 26, 2012, 07:54:47 AM
It's pretty bad when I automatically think "Oh hey a Legends of the Hidden Temple joke" without even reading anything.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on January 26, 2012, 08:33:33 AM
I actually read the first sentence and then just scanned the rest of the thing for the phrase "silver monkey".
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Zaratustra on January 26, 2012, 02:48:39 PM
http://www.collegehumor.com/video/1165138/olmec-sex-therapist (http://www.collegehumor.com/video/1165138/olmec-sex-therapist)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on January 29, 2012, 01:38:12 AM
Well the ending had me feeling a lot better about the whole thing.

And then they don't give you an option to copy your data before activating Hero Mode.  So yeah.


I'm gonna try and lay out all my thoughts about this game later, because boy howdy do I have a lot.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Kayma on January 29, 2012, 02:13:57 PM
And then they don't give you an option to copy your data before activating Hero Mode.  So yeah.

That was irksome. At least until I realized I didn't want to get any more heart pieces, OR play hero mode...
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on January 29, 2012, 02:45:26 PM
I was maybe two heart pieces away from 100% already though, so I wasn't amused.

Wasn't really bemused either.  Mostly it just snapped me out of the good feelings I had over from the ending to remind me of the 45+ hours I had to spend getting to it.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Ted Belmont on February 19, 2012, 09:47:00 AM
Here, have a long, but well written article: (http://tevisthompson.com/saving-zelda/)
Quote
But I remember.  I remember the peerless original, its unfairly-maligned sequel, and those later elements that suggested the magic had not been completely exhausted, from Wind Waker’s exuberant charm and grace to little Midna’s boundless sass.  Yet focusing on the series’ greatest moments won’t save Zelda.  Its obsession with its own conventions and culture has resulted in an insular little kingdom, walled off from the rest of gaming.  Zelda no longer has a vision of anything but itself, and the wrong parts at that.  It is choking on its own tail.

He strays into "entitled fan" territory a couple of times, but overall, a pretty good read.

Also, when I first read that chunk up there, I read "Midna's boundless sass" as "Midna's boundless ass". :ohmy:
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: patito on February 19, 2012, 10:39:07 AM
Oh , that's actually the same article that was on kotaku. The problem with it though is that the guy has an obsession with teh first zelda and that's not a good thing.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on February 19, 2012, 11:16:13 AM
I agree with some of the points of the thing but not the overall theme of "I want to have to bomb every wall again" is a little, uh.

He also gives the impression that he hasn't actually played Twilight Princess, and is assuming that it must be almost-but-not-quite like Skyward Sword.  Which is not true; TP has a great combatty engine and plenty of bullshit little crannies to explore if that's what you're into, it's just weighed down by atrocious scenario/level design and the fact that most of those crannies house absolutely fucking useless rupees.

But yeah if you're just coming off of SS and almost half-cockedly blurbed about your impressions of it without taking the time to view things from another angle (*cough*) then it's fair to complain that the Zelda series, by which we just mean the latest game, has no world to explore.  SS basically does not have an overworld.  It has a big empty hub and three big outdoor dungeons.  And yeah, that's a problem, because the last two conversations I've had with friends asking if they should pick up the game is this:

:gay4: Brentai-kun Brentai-kun should I buy Skyward Sword?
:sarcasm: Why do you want Skyward Sword, little Bridget?
:gay4: Because it's a Zelda game and I love Zelda games!
:sarcasm: And why do you love Zelda games, little Bridget?
:gay4: Because I love exploring the world and finding things!
:sarcasm: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
:gay4: What?
:sarcasm: No.  No you should not buy Skyward Sword.
:gay4: Oh.  :(
:sarcasm: ...
:gay4: ...
:sarcasm: ...
:gay4: Brentai-kun would you like to caress my
:sarcasm: YES.

And then we spend the next two hours cleaning up and talking about how maybe, if we could just take TP's focus on frequent but quickly resolved battles, somehow translate LttP's purposefully designed yet breathing overworld to 3D, come up with something to find in secret areas that are less fucking pointless than rupees, and maybe declare at least a temporary ban on all minigames and fetch quests, then yeah maybe we could whip up something that will make this guy happy AND still be fun to play without a strategy guide.



For some reason the Comic Shop Guy emoticon translates to Brian Griffin now.  I started to change my post but on reflection decided that it's just fine the way it is.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Lottel on February 19, 2012, 11:29:23 AM
No fetch quests?!
If I scoffed any harder, I'd sprain something.

Granted, I've not played any console Zelda since MM so I don't know how it's gotten consolewise, but I don't think they're getting any worse/better. Maybe you just notice them more because the overworld's dull and you're just running back and forth with nothing interesting in between? Or have they lost the charm and humor some of the earlier games had when it came to them? Are they not totally optional fetch quests?

I've relaxed my scoffing pending the answers, but am stretching to renew with gusto just in case.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on February 19, 2012, 11:30:26 AM
They don't need to get any worse.  They were obnoxious back in OoT.

BUT Skyward Sword not only devolves most NPCs into quest givers (complete with icon over their heads) but also institutes its own kind of fetch quest currency.  Literally the point of most of the NPC chores is to increase the number of tokens you have for doing NPC chores.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Ted Belmont on February 19, 2012, 02:45:23 PM
No Zelda game was more obnoxious with its fetch quests than Minish Cap; although at least most of them were optional.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Mothra on February 19, 2012, 02:56:42 PM
Unfortunately yes.

Never more damning proof that no amount of charm can cover up unrelenting bullshittery.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on February 19, 2012, 08:41:18 PM
The most recently released Zelda game is always the one that people like the least. This is the pattern I have observed without fail since Majora's Mask came out. Frankly, it gets a bit old. But maybe they just see something I don't, considering I like all of them (except Phantom Hourglass, which was just too easy).

Though if you want more games like Zelda 1, Dark Souls is, like, right over there.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Thad on February 19, 2012, 09:02:41 PM
The most recently released Zelda game is always the one that people like the least. This is the pattern I have observed without fail since Majora's Mask came out. Frankly, it gets a bit old.

That's part of it.  Hipsters gonna hip.

But fans of the original topdown style have had plenty of valid criticisms of the series from OoT onward, and no they don't all come down to "It's not the same game as before."  (Indeed, many of the complaints boil down to "They keep repeating the same shit over and over", which is just the opposite problem regardless of where the game sticks the camera.)

OoT had a ridiculously slow text crawl, a flawed combat system, some really tedious levels, and upped the collection quests.  Wind Waker had a world so empty that you could make a sandwich while you waited to travel from one location to another.  TP finally cranked the mandatory minigames past my point of tolerance, and that's the last one I played.

Which isn't to say that they're bad games!  And each of those had something I quite liked about it, too.  But at this point I feel like I'd rather replay LttP for the umpteenth time than try a new Zelda game.

Though if you want more games like Zelda 1, Dark Souls is, like, right over there.

I want something more like LttP, but if Dark Souls gets a PC port I'll be sure and read up on it.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on February 19, 2012, 09:07:56 PM
TP finally cranked the mandatory minigames past my point of tolerance

What's hilarious is that you seemed to stop playing right before the snowboarding minigame.

Yes, seriously.

The most recently released Zelda game is always the one that people like the least.

1. The most recently released Zelda game is always the most talked about.
2. If the series on a whole is on a gradual decline, then yes, the most recent game probably is the worst.
3. With the exception of the whiner who wrote that last article, reactions to Skyward Sword tend to be either orgasmic or "It wasn't as bad as [OoT|WW|TP]."
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Classic on February 19, 2012, 10:12:20 PM
Wind Waker had a world so empty that you could make a sandwich while you waited to travel from one location to another.

I kind of got the impression that it would've benefited a lot from being able to plot out safe fast travel routes.
Each map locale did have something kind of neat to explore. A little encounter with some monsters that dropped some nice collectibles and a parcel of rupees to speed up whatever grindy bullshit you might have been doing.

Since I'd been steadily and accidentally collecting triforce maps and pieces the open explore-a-thon didn't get to me.

Though, I admit it was probably a big mistake.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Ted Belmont on March 08, 2013, 10:23:50 AM
The Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword Cake Animated (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbsijtx8ij4#ws)

I know "omg it's a videogame cake" is straying dangerously close to Kotaku territory, but HOLY CARP.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Envy on April 21, 2013, 12:52:02 PM
If you guys really want something more zelda 1 like, there is a roguelike that play's a-lot like Zelda coming out.
Delver's Drop Kickstarter - Game Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H9rSUI8gMs#ws)
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Niku on October 01, 2013, 02:15:56 AM
Apparently Link Between Worlds won't have new puzzle items in dungeons.  Instead, you buy (or rent?) most of the items from a shop for rupees, letting you pick which dungeons you want to go to based on what you decide to buy.  Presumably there's something to keep you from just grinding out every single item right from the start, but who knows?  It could be an interesting change for the flow of the game, or could fundamentally not change much at all.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Zaratustra on October 01, 2013, 02:19:35 AM
The problem with money-driven mechanics in games is that they not just encourage grinding, they practically put up a sign saying THIS WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER IF YOU DIDN'T MIND CUTTING SHRUBS FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Beat Bandit on October 01, 2013, 03:44:21 AM
It seemed (from the same video everyone saw, to me, personally) that it would be a system where you can rent one item for a very small amount, then go do a dungeon that presumably offers a final reward at the end that secures you at least the purchase of that item if no other rewards.

So basically same as the old games only you use the dungeon item for the path leading to the dungeon, too.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 01, 2013, 03:48:23 AM
My guess is it's going to be something like this:

It'll be possible to go through the game "normally," clearing the dungeons in such an order that no dungeon relies on any item except the ones in the previous dungeons and its own item. Then you can also rent dungeon items so that you can clear the dungeons in any order you want (since you can at least access them all in any order). Effectively it's sanctioned sequence breaking.

Speedruns of this game are going to be nuts if I'm right.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Catloaf on November 24, 2013, 05:25:01 PM
Speedruns of this game are going to be nuts if I'm right.

Yeah, seeing as I beat the game 99% my first run in two days, ridiculous speedruns are quite inevitable.

In a stupid, slightly related note, the only item I missed was the heart piece from racing across the map in 65 seconds.

I actually think I would've liked to have seen one or two more items found in dungeons.  Or at least dungeons having the non-rented version of items--nope!  The only way to have get non-rented, upgradable via an adorable alternative to skulltula tokens, items is to buy them.

Final negative points: I wish the L and R button functions were switched.  I just like having a more action oriented R button and a more defensive oriented L button function, as opposed to the shield/pegasus boots mapping they went with. And the effort needed to upgrade the bug-net is not at all proportional/worth it.

But other than those few things, the game really is great.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Beat Bandit on November 25, 2013, 12:23:50 AM
Final negative points: I wish the L and R button functions were switched.  I just like having a more action oriented R button and a more defensive oriented L button function, as opposed to the shield/pegasus boots mapping they went with. And the effort needed to upgrade the bug-net is not at all proportional/worth it.
The best Zelda games have always been the ones where every button was 'use item' and you got to assign each item.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: François on December 18, 2013, 05:09:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOq4IiuRMWk#t=72 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOq4IiuRMWk#t=72)

so liu bei, kenshiro and link walk into a bar
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 19, 2013, 03:22:29 AM
It's like this game was tailor-made especially for me.

And I still don't care.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: François on December 19, 2013, 05:18:47 AM
You know, thinking about it some more, it reminds me of that part at the end of Skyward Sword where Drizzt McCreepypants is trying to slow you down. Except that lasts for maybe five minutes?

I'm definitely more amused that this is a thing at all, than I am interested.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Brentai on December 19, 2013, 05:26:19 AM
Actually that was one of the more enjoyable parts of that game. Damn it, now I'm actually cautiously interested.

Until I realize it's going to have to use that god dammed tablet somehow.

And require hours of system updates to play.

Uuuuuuugh.
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: François on December 19, 2013, 05:50:38 AM
Oh it was absolutely a blast for a bit, but I don't know if I want that to be a whole game.

Or, err, I say that, but a few months back I went and bought Samurai Warriors 3. So, maybe I do?
Title: Re: Zelda Blows
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on December 19, 2013, 11:54:54 PM
I'll probably give it a go.  I enjoyed Dynasty Warriors 8, so at worst it will still probably have better voice acting, even if it's the typical gibberish and Link grunts.