Brontoforumus Archive

Discussion Boards => Real Life => Topic started by: Friday on May 22, 2009, 02:51:38 PM

Title: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Friday on May 22, 2009, 02:51:38 PM
WARNING: PERSONAL DETAILS ABOUT MY LIFE FOLLOW, THERE WILL BE NO LULZ TO BE HAD, IF YOU ARE THE TYPE OF PERSON WHO DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT BLOG-STYLE LIFE UPDATE POSTS, YOU MAY WANT TO STOP READING NOW

So today one of my best friends calls me up, a married guy whom I've known for most of my life.

He tells me he's moving to Washington State.

I am surprised, this is coming completely out of left field.

I ask him why.

He says, more or less, because God told him/is telling him to.

I go "..."

He goes "I'm sorry but I can't ignore the signs."

Now, before you all jump on me for having a best friend who is a religious nut, allow me to give you this guy's background:

He's never done anything like this before. He never talked about his religion except in very casual passing. He goes to church, that's it. He's been a player in my campaign(s) for over 8 years, besides playing a Paladin, he's not phased by my pantheons or demonic enemies or any of the normal shit about Dungeons and Dragons that usually sets off the nuts. He doesn't insist his Paladin follows the "one true god", he accepts that he's a follower of just one Good aligned god of a pantheon.

This completely took me by surprise. I feel like something is being stolen from me. His wife is a little more religious than he is, she may have something to do with it. For those keeping track, this is the same girl I was talking about with Norondor. She's a homophobe and a creationist, her husband is neither.

But the thing is he really sounds like he believes it, he sounds like he really thinks he has to go and live in Washington because there's some task for him to do there.

Fuck, I don't know, maybe there is. But I still feel like I don't even know the guy anymore. And I'm losing a good friend for incredibly stupid reasons.

I don't know why I'm posting this here, really, other than the fact that if I don't get some kind of feedback my head may explode from the sheer amount of WTF.

So I'm not crazy, right? He and his wife are losing their minds and making a mistake, right? I mean it's their lives and if they want to move to Washington, OK, but they're in debt right now and all their friends and family are here. This is not the time or reason for them to move.

Fuck. I was even able to convince my Mormon friend to not go on his mission. (Two years in Australia) He got away from that cult shit, though they still find him once in a while and ask him why he's not going to church.

You know, I was always sort of neutral toward religion, but now it's actively reducing the quality of my life. Fuck this crazy bullshit. I even believe in God on my own terms, but I don't let that prevent me from making logical choices. (My vagina does that, lol.)
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kayma on May 22, 2009, 03:08:50 PM
He says, more or less, because God told him/is telling him to.

I go "..."

This, I think, is a proper and sane response.

I have a few friends who buy into religion in ways I could never posisbly fathom; and yeah, having a spouse who drinks the Kool Aid a bit more than you can certainly cloud your own judgment.

Did he go crazy? Maybe. Is it just peer pressure from his wife? Maybe maybe. The only thing I know for sure is that when trying to convince someone NOT to do something from religious impetus, winning the argument is unlikely, because all you've got on your side are bothersome facts and reason.

In any event, that sucks. Sorry to hear it.

I don't let that prevent me from making logical choices. (My vagina does that, lol.)

...and you said there wouldn't be lulz
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 22, 2009, 03:13:07 PM
I've lost a lot of friends to Washington State.  I suppose it's only a matter of time before I wind up there, myself--but it will probably be too late.

There's not a lot you can do.

A friend of mine, 'Mike', told me about a guy he used to know.  Mike and this guy had been friends for a while, but the guy must have been going through a strange place in his life, 'cause he kinda dropped off the radar.  Then one day Mike got a knock on his door, and it was this guy, saying that they'd had some good times, and what was about to happen was in no way Mike's fault, but he didn't want to be friends anymore.

This seems really similar.  Framing the issue in the "command from God" light kind of preempts any sort of debate.  About the only thing you can do is express your disapproval and your hope that this doesn't turn out to be a mistake he regrets too greatly, and try to keep in touch.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Cyan Prime on May 22, 2009, 03:20:00 PM
I'm in WA. Tell him to hit me up so I have someone to play nerdy games with. I'm very low on friends, and most of them are always busy (read: all 3, not joking).
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: James Edward Smith on May 22, 2009, 03:23:40 PM
LOL VAGINA.

Friday,

kudos on the DnD:SoM member title by the way.

but Friday,

We live on a spinning piece of rock that holds water and us to it via its gravity and is being flung around one of billions of stars out there by its gravity. We used to run around and hunt other animals, but now we trade consumer goods and make houses for eachother and all other manners of crazy complex things. Our ability to understand any of all this stuff going on around us or before us or whatever, is comendable sometimes but for the most part, very limited. So, I believe, that the only logical way to live one's life is to admit I am lost on a spinning ball in a cosmos that I don't have all the answers to and to never claim I have an answer until I am absolutely sure due to undeniable proof. This sort of proof very rarely comes up, so I live my life with a what I believe is a very healthy level of skepticism of pretty much everything. But I digress.

Not everyone follows this belief system that I have. Humans have a tendancy to want to believe that they can make sense of things around them intuitively, that their classically human capability to recognize patterns around them is all they need to make sense of the world and it should be used to figure out how things really work in the world around them and that they should trust it. This often leads people to believe that signs are telling them to move to Washington, say.

As one bipedal ape to an other, I'm sorry that your friend is moving away. Many of my close friends have moved away recently too. My only advice to you is the same I'm giving to myself right now and that is to try and make time to make new friends. There's a lot of good people out there.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Brentai on May 22, 2009, 03:27:38 PM
God knows what the guy's deal actually is.  He hasn't actually told you, and you're probably pretty close to him, so it's clearly complicated.

It may be a huge, horrible, tragic thing.  And then again, it may not be.

If you care, do as much as you can not to fall out of touch with him.  Don't push him toward anything, because that'll break the connection, but make sure he knows you're still a part of his life.  If he's really losing himself out there then that last link to the "real" world may still be enough to save him sometime down the road.  If he's really really in trouble, then you'll know as soon as they start moving in to sever the bond between him and everybody who isn't "them".  If it's really nothing that big, you'll maintain your friendship, and in time he'll probably give you a less goofy answer than "God was calling me."

The Power of Friendship is a corny deal but it really does defeat a lot of monsters, real or imagined.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: SCD on May 22, 2009, 03:32:22 PM
It's odd as I find myself hitting Central Canada to receive one last mission "for all my sins".  

Well, nah it's more to get on a different track of life.  

There is a lot of seasonal work in Wa and BC, especially as you approach the sailish sea.  It is a much less worse state than California, for all I hear.  

Having a lack of family is disconcerting, however..   (http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/Bon_Bon_2009/scruffy-1.jpg)  Not an ideal risk



Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Cyan Prime on May 22, 2009, 03:32:30 PM
The Power of Friendship is a corny deal but it really does defeat a lot of monsters, real or imagined.
/Tea
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Brentai on May 22, 2009, 03:37:35 PM
Yeah I almost posted a picture of her but I'm still dragging my feet on hosting.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Detonator on May 22, 2009, 03:39:56 PM
Yeah I almost posted a picture of her but I'm still dragging my feet on hosting.

Photobucket?
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Cyan Prime on May 22, 2009, 03:40:25 PM
Yeah I almost posted a picture of her but I'm still dragging my feet on hosting.
imgur.com
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Mongrel on May 22, 2009, 05:16:02 PM
For all the smug superiority oure atheism affords, sometimes people just want the comfort of belief.

I find it hard to blame them.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kayma on May 22, 2009, 05:19:19 PM
For all the smug superiority oure atheism affords, sometimes people just want the comfort of belief.

I find it hard to blame them.



Sure, but when did Washington become the holy land?
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kazz on May 22, 2009, 05:28:43 PM
I'm sorry for your loss.

If they're really on hard times, he's probably stressed out and searching for meaning.  I mean, I've had friends do dumb things for even dumber reasons (that I won't get into), but things turn out okay.  If I were you, I'd just wish him the best and keep in touch.

(But, what sort of creationist homophobe marries someone who isn't one?)
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: on May 22, 2009, 05:31:15 PM
I just -left- Washington.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Alex on May 22, 2009, 05:39:08 PM
And thus it became the Holy Land again.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: on May 22, 2009, 05:40:04 PM
:sadpanda:
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Büge on May 22, 2009, 05:40:31 PM
(But, what sort of creationist homophobe marries someone who isn't one?)

(My vagina does that, lol.)
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: JDigital on May 22, 2009, 05:52:22 PM
Sometimes a guy just knows he has to do a thing.

Admittedly, that usually applies to buying a videogame.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Catloaf on May 22, 2009, 06:57:08 PM
Now, before you all jump on me for having a best friend who is a religious nut,...

Can we all jump on you for other reasons? :suave:

And yes, you can be player one.


But seriously, I can completely understand not knowing that someone is a closet religious nut.  Years ago, a friend came up to me upon me producing a sandwich containing at least 1/2 a pound of pastrami and corned beef, exclaiming "Damn that's a huge sandwich, I mean, I can't even eat meat today, are you trying to taunt me or something?"
"You're selectively vegetarian based on the day of the week?!" I cluelessly responded.
"No, dude, I'm Roman Catholic.  We can't eat meat on Fridays."
 :OoO:
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Brentai on May 22, 2009, 07:19:55 PM
A lot of Catholics follow that rule who aren't necessarily insane.  If it's family tradition...
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Friday on May 22, 2009, 07:28:06 PM
The really fucking annoying thing is he just decided this last weekend.

Like, OK. If he had been getting messages and signs from god for months, or even weeks, that's one thing, maybe. This guy is moving to Washington because of "signs" that have been going on for less than four days.

Apparently, when he talked to his mom and dad about it, right after he said he had a major announcement but before he actually said anything, his mom said "You're moving to Washington, aren't you?"

He and his wife took this as a major confirmation that god was indeed telling them to move.

OK, a little spooky to guess that out of the blue, I'll grant...

except guess where he and his wife were last weekend

yes that's right they were on a trip to Seattle

Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Cyan Prime on May 22, 2009, 07:29:42 PM
except guess where he and his wife were last weekend

yes that's right they were on a trip to Seattle


OH MY PORK!
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Cannon on May 22, 2009, 07:46:49 PM
But seriously, I can completely understand not knowing that someone is a closet religious nut.  Years ago, a friend came up to me upon me producing a sandwich containing at least 1/2 a pound of pastrami and corned beef, exclaiming "Damn that's a huge sandwich, I mean, I can't even eat meat today, are you trying to taunt me or something?"
"You're selectively vegetarian based on the day of the week?!" I cluelessly responded.
"No, dude, I'm Roman Catholic.  We can't eat meat on Fridays."
:disapprove:

A lot of Catholics follow that rule who aren't necessarily insane.  If it's family tradition...

Erm. Yeah. Can we save the term "religious nut" for people who, oh, bomb abortion clinics? Please? So the term doesn't lose all value for people present who are religious?

I'm sorry to read that bit of news, Friday. I wanted to offer some advice, but I didn't want to just assume your friend is a Christian; though a "homophobic creationist" wife makes that probable.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Romosome on May 22, 2009, 07:57:18 PM
Agreeing with Cannon here.  Take a picture, it's a historic moment.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Friday on May 22, 2009, 08:22:08 PM
Because of the current latest posts, I read this thread as "Bionic Commando took my friend away"
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Romosome on May 22, 2009, 08:36:40 PM
Bionic Commando stole my bike
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Catloaf on May 22, 2009, 09:40:22 PM
I didn't mean to say that the no meat on Friday thing* made him crazy.  But it was the first thing I noticed about him being religious, and it turns out he was pretty damn religious.  Just not in public.


*Not eating meat on the 6th day of the week, as opposed to a hypothetical "Why is Friday suddenly a skeleton!?" situation.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Beat Bandit on May 22, 2009, 09:54:53 PM
Two pages and no one noticed yet?

He obviously just misheard, he's supposed to go on the Oregon Trail!
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: JDigital on May 23, 2009, 03:50:37 AM
There's a scene in Night Watch* where a kid, suddenly devoid of his sense of direction or purpose, starts following any sort of sign: road signs, billboards, anything.

* this film opens with an awesome gory mediaeval battle and goes downhill from there
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kazz on May 23, 2009, 07:48:21 AM
I have a friend who wouldn't eat meat on Fridays all through high school.  He wasn't particularly religious, but he knew he wouldn't be able to face his folks if he did.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: JDigital on May 23, 2009, 09:20:43 AM
I use it as an excuse to get my mum to make me fish and chips every week.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kayma on May 23, 2009, 09:34:42 AM
That's a good point. Say what you will about the Catholic church, they're responsible for the availability of a decent fish sandwich for a few weeks out of the year. I respect that.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Guild on May 23, 2009, 09:46:55 AM
My friend Rick used to be the biggest logic nerd and anti-religion guy and now he goes to church every week ever since he married his wife. The first thing that went away was D&D with Rick...
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: François on May 23, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
I'm always amazed to hear how (relatively) extreme Catholics are in the States. In Québec, it's only been about 40-50 years since we put an end to the Catholic Church's control over, well, pretty much everything, but things still seem mellower here somehow. Giving up meat on fridays is almost unheard of, except for some of the more elderly folk. I've been raised Catholic myself*, I've been around some pretty devout people, I was good friends with the son of a deacon, and the most extreme practice I've ever personally witnessed was saying a prayer of thanks before meals. We have our share of fringe lunatics but by and large it's very rarely any kind of deal at all.

As for your friend, Friday... His decision may be sudden and appear hasty to everyone, possibly even to himself, but I have the impression that, well, he's afraid he might regret it if he doesn't go. I mean, if I had a profound gut feeling that I had to do something specific and radical, to make a big change in my life, and didn't act on it, it'd feel terrible. Every time something bad happened to me I'd think about how things might have been different, you know? If he leaves and things don't work out, he can always return to his family and friends with the knowledge that he gave it a shot. If he doesn't go at all then he'll have "what might have been" haunting him for the rest of his days.

Of course, his motivations may be a cause of worry for you, but I wouldn't think too hard about it. It's probably just intuition or whatever, and he calls it God because it fits his circumstances and his worldview.

Or maybe it really is God, in which case you probably don't have much to worry about.  ::D:

*: I'm just Christian now though. Denominations are for chumps the tragically misled. (Cue one of you smartasses saying "I'm just atheist now. Religions are for chumps." We're all chumps to somebody. But as long as we think for ourselves and take responsibility for our actions, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else says.)
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kazz on May 23, 2009, 10:44:17 AM
aw, don't feel bad.  i hate everybody who tells anybody anything.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Cyan Prime on May 23, 2009, 10:53:48 AM
It's probably just intuition or whatever, and he calls it God because it fits his circumstances and his worldview.
The problem with that is that calling it God gives power to those who want to control people like say outlawing gay marrage. He should be more careful what he calls the voices in his head.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Brentai on May 23, 2009, 11:23:10 AM
God tells me to burn things.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Lottel on May 23, 2009, 11:29:49 AM
Are you sure that it's not a leprechaun?
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Lady Duke on May 23, 2009, 12:11:51 PM
Sorry to hear that Friday.  Religious stuff is totally no fun at all for non-religious people.  I have a protestant friend who drives me nuts with her crazy religious logic about what things are okay and not okay, and then I have a not-mormon-anymore friend who actively hates the Mormon faith now.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Brentai on May 23, 2009, 12:34:29 PM
Religious stuff is totally no fun at all for non-religious people.

Is it some kind of party for people who are into it?

Do, like, religious guys get together on Sundays and start a betting pool on who's going to be picked for Archdiose in the first round of the draft?
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Fredward on May 23, 2009, 12:47:37 PM
Back in Montreal, my very Jewish friend goes to synagogue every Friday night and afterwards gets drunk with the rabbis.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kayma on May 23, 2009, 02:44:15 PM
Wait a minute! There's things here! There's rocks, there's trees, there's birds, there's squirrels. Come on, we'll bless them all until we get vashnigyered
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kashan on May 23, 2009, 02:56:37 PM
Sorry to hear about your friend.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Lady Duke on May 23, 2009, 03:31:23 PM
Religious stuff is totally no fun at all for non-religious people.

Is it some kind of party for people who are into it?

Do, like, religious guys get together on Sundays and start a betting pool on who's going to be picked for Archdiose in the first round of the draft?

It prolly makes plenty of them feel good about themselves.  Pretty sure.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Brentai on May 23, 2009, 04:13:21 PM
Depends.  The Baptism style of Christianity that runs most of this country is infamous for the oppressive air of guilt it likes to lay onto its practitioners.  Most of the guys who run around acting smug and morally superior to most other people are probably doing it because they've actually been taught that they're at the bottom of the moral food chain, and for a human being to be psychologically stable he or she has to have some feeling of dominance over something.

Catholicism is only slightly better in that it at least offers a possible way out of guilt, but only if you drink enough of the Kool-Aid (or in the more literal sense, if you drink enough of the box wine).
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Lottel on May 23, 2009, 04:22:20 PM
Watered down box wine and wafers.

Can't forget the wafers.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Brentai on May 23, 2009, 04:27:10 PM
I wish I could.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kashan on May 24, 2009, 10:07:22 AM
I hate that the communion ceremony is separated from an actual meal. It's entirely contrary to the verses in the bible that are read right before the communion ceremony.  :facepalm:

Brentai, my experience with Baptists is that the whole smugness thing is because they're not going to hell like the rest of us, and they're the only ones who can save our souls. I mean it is a fucked up culture that uses shame as a teaching tool a lot, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a hardcore Baptist express feelings of guilt.

p.s. Episcopal wine is actually fortified rather than watered down.  :perfect:
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: MarsDragon on May 24, 2009, 12:06:46 PM
Sorry to hear that Friday.  Religious stuff is totally no fun at all for non-religious people.  I have a protestant friend who drives me nuts with her crazy religious logic about what things are okay and not okay, and then I have a not-mormon-anymore friend who actively hates the Mormon faith now.

I think most Ex-Mormons hate the faith with an absolute passion. Is this not common with other faiths? I thought it was one of those 'no faith like a convert' things in reverse.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Lady Duke on May 24, 2009, 12:38:53 PM
I dunno, but I don't know any ex-Mormons that have any remotely positive feelings about the faith at all.  I think my friend is also angry because her mom is such a crazy Mormon and maybe she wouldn't have been so crazy if she wasn't so passionate about her faith.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Spaco on May 24, 2009, 01:19:47 PM
Back in Montreal, my very Jewish friend goes to synagogue every Friday night and afterwards gets drunk with the rabbis.

Are you implying some sort of contradiction?
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: Kashan on May 24, 2009, 01:24:53 PM
I think the amount that somebody who has left a religion hates it is directly inversely proportional to the cultishness of the religion, and the difficulty they had leaving it.
Title: Re: Religion took my friend away
Post by: sei on May 24, 2009, 01:41:36 PM
That post makes me want to dig out Breaking the Spell, as part of it talks about the relationship between the demands of a religion and the conviction of its followers.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Friday on January 20, 2010, 05:53:02 PM
hahaha UPDATE

my friend has lost his fucking mind and just called to inform me that we are no longer friends because I don't believe in (his) god and it always bothered him that I never went to church (even though I did for the first 12 years of my life because my parents made me) and also because I don't have a strong work ethic and also because gays are a sin and I am a gay.

I blame everything on his wife, there is no way that he was this crazy for the 15 years I knew him.

he ended the phone call with "I will pray for your soul"
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Friday on January 20, 2010, 06:00:39 PM
to be clear about the gay bit (just because it makes it even more insane) what he's referring to is the fact that I've talked openly about having an attraction to my same gender with my friends before when the subject came up.

he doesn't know I fairly recently decided I was a filthyBISEXUAL and all that. he is just saying I am a sinner because I had those thoughts.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Royal☭ on January 20, 2010, 06:07:48 PM
I think you've mentioned that before.   Also, it sucks when friends go crazy religious

Also your avatar makes me feel weird.  PEACE.


:done:
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Friday on January 20, 2010, 06:10:12 PM
oh, way ahead of you on the getting drunk part.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 20, 2010, 06:14:39 PM
It sucks that he has apparently been so thoroughly brainwashed. Maybe he'll grow out of it...?
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Royal☭ on January 20, 2010, 06:17:03 PM
oh, way ahead of you on the getting drunk part.

But I still have this half bottle of rum here untouched.  Guess I'll just have to hunker down and do the work myself.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 20, 2010, 06:20:20 PM
I should probably drink the rest of the Christmas vodka. It's medicinal, right?
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Büge on January 20, 2010, 06:31:28 PM
 :wat: You got vodka for Christmas? All I got were socks and gift certificates!
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: LaserBeing on January 20, 2010, 06:40:26 PM
It's medicinal, right?

Medicinal just means it's three times as strong.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Kazz on January 20, 2010, 07:32:04 PM
what sort of entirely shitty person calls a friend to tell them "hey, just fyi, i hate you now.  and i always will til you change as suits my beliefs.  chew on that."
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Brentai on January 20, 2010, 07:52:18 PM
You kidding?  There are worldwide organizations dedicated to it.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Guild on January 20, 2010, 07:55:49 PM
There is nothing in the bible about hating gays or telling friends you hate them for any reason.

This guy must be some other crazy religion I've never heard of.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Rosencrantz on January 20, 2010, 08:20:24 PM
oh, way ahead of you on the getting drunk part.

I thought you didn't drink? Things really must be bad.  :sadpanda:
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Friend on January 20, 2010, 08:22:30 PM
There is nothing in the bible about hating gays or telling friends you hate them for any reason.

This guy must be some other crazy religion I've never heard of.

Stolen straight from yahoo answers

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090927132624AApHztN (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090927132624AApHztN)

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Brentai on January 20, 2010, 08:24:26 PM
This comes literally one line after the bit about how it's wrong to sacrifice your children to Moloch.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Guild on January 20, 2010, 08:33:26 PM
There is nothing in the bible about hating gays or telling friends you hate them for any reason.

This guy must be some other crazy religion I've never heard of.

Stolen straight from yahoo answers

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090927132624AApHztN (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090927132624AApHztN)

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

When Jesus came to earth he looked at the Hebrews and told them that what they had been following was no longer useful (The Old Testament, or what Hasidics call Tanakh).

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc2.htm

This site has a few examples of people trying REALLY FUCKING HARD to catch Jesus saying to hate gays, and failing.

Jesus said that he is the Word, and that meant many things, but in this context he meant to follow his way. Jesus didn't hate fags, and neither should any real Christian.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Guild on January 20, 2010, 08:53:25 PM
yeah i edit that for jesus shoving things in asses, it was a bad analogy given the context
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Friend on January 20, 2010, 09:05:24 PM
Hey, you said Bible, not New Testament.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Guild on January 20, 2010, 09:19:01 PM
the bible cannot be broken apart; it is a whole element, and jesus trumps all of the other content, even later books

but i see why you are saying that
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: yyler on January 20, 2010, 09:25:09 PM
The things in Leviticus are pretty fucking funny tbh

Friday I am sorry for your lots
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: NexAdruin on January 20, 2010, 09:45:40 PM
It is my understanding that Jesus didn't come to say "hey forget all that other shit" but more to be like "you guys are doin it a bit wrong here let me help." I could be wrong, though. Haven't read The Brick Testament in a while.

Edit: http://thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_the_law_of_moses/mt05_17.html
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Guild on January 20, 2010, 09:54:37 PM
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father, except through Me."

That's Jesus saying that even the bible is just a toy compared to his life and example.

I have a better quote, but I'm having a hard time finding it.

Edit: quotegoeshere
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Guild on January 20, 2010, 10:13:01 PM
Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: NexAdruin on January 21, 2010, 03:32:34 AM
Ironically, I've only ever heard of Christians (and Muslims, but I'm not going to go near that topic) being like this about gays. The Jewish people I know are much more sensible about it all, even though they're the ones that still believe in the "stoning homosexuals to death" Testament.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Classic on January 21, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
The jews save their stonings for the recalcitrant children. Ever wonder why Woody is so ugly?
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Friday on January 21, 2010, 02:55:30 PM
fuck, my head hurts.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Classic on January 21, 2010, 02:57:18 PM
Too much positive drinking?
Oh:
Sorry that your friend isn't a friend anymore. I don't really have anything useful to say on the subject though... So... Umm...

Eat some protein rich foods (e.g. adolescents over babies) and hydrate? Yeah.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Kashan on January 21, 2010, 03:33:57 PM
I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that there's nothing against homosexuality in the bible. Rather I think the correct answer is to point to the history of the bible and the context of the very few passages that do condemn homosexuality. Basically you've got Leviticus which is full of crazy, and one aside in the letters from Paul, which aren't quite as full of crazy, but are clearly incompatible with modern society in many ways that even the most conservative Christians wouldn't be comfortable with.

For context, there are at least 10 times as many places in the bible where lending at interest is condemned, and our society straight up doesn't function without that.

Even if one accepts that the homosexuals are in a state of sin, which I don't think the bible actually supports unless you're willing to bite the bullet on a lot of other stuff, Jesus spent his time hanging out with prostitutes, beggers, money lenders, tax collectors, and lepers. The emphasis of everything Jesus said was community and love and forgiveness. Turning away from a friend is clearly far far further from the teaching of Jesus than fucking somebody of the same sex is.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Kazz on January 21, 2010, 03:45:08 PM
friday: drink water

also CUDDLE PARTY

*CUDDLE*
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Classic on January 21, 2010, 03:53:45 PM
Kazz is protein rich. He is a beefcake. :want:
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: James Edward Smith on January 21, 2010, 03:55:26 PM
I think that trying to explain to someone why the bible doesn't tell them to hate gays is sort of a lost cause. If some one lives their life by the bible, they are living in willful ignorance, trying to explain something to them "logically" or based on "evidence" is akin to pissing in the ocean in hopes of pissing off a fish. You are dealing with someone who has a much more fundimental problem than just not reading certain parts of the bible or understanding them the way you do.

I mean, clearly anyone who believes that part of being good and faithful is to hate other people based on their sexual orientation has some sort of problem and doesn't actually want to be GOOD and faithful so much as RIGHT and SUPERIOR.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Classic on January 21, 2010, 04:01:40 PM
Heh. "Fundie-mental" Good one Geo. I approve.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Brentai on January 21, 2010, 04:47:17 PM
The important thing to understand about most deeply religious people is that if their priest/pastor/spiritual leader did an about-face and said every single thing in their holy text was wrong, the followers would immediately also believe that absolutely everything in their holy texts is wrong.

Debating the Bible is a fun pasttime but it's missing the point so completely that the fundies are actually fully justified in saying that you don't understand.  The Church's power doesn't come from any book, any god, or any moral superiority.  The Church's power comes from two thousand years of experience in heavily manipulating the dynamics of social pressure.  If you have to understand this if you ever have to seriously deal with them.

The concept of "Us" is literally everything to these people.  And for there to be an "Us", there must be a "Them".  (Godwin goes here.). You can't erase their hate because it's part of what shapes the identity of the group.

The only way to change one of these people is to force them to accept their own individuality.  Good luck with that.  Most people are more terrified of their own individuality than anything else.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Kazz on January 21, 2010, 05:35:02 PM
and the rest just think it means hair dye
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Catloaf on January 21, 2010, 06:18:16 PM
The Jewish people I know are much more sensible about it all, even though they're the ones that still believe in the "stoning homosexuals to death" Testament.

Besides the Hasidim, most Jews nowadays don't believe in any of the 'kill that person for that reason' stuff.  As the Tanakh is separate from the the actual laws.  And then the other book of laws is mostly "Do all this stuff or you're not a good person, not that anyone will punish besides yourself will do anything about it." And then there have always been the systems of law outside the religious texts that are actually enforced.  This along with things like assimilation into other cultures leads most Jews to not really care what others do in their free time as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

Then there's the Israelis, who would care about that stuff, but are too busy with the constant wars with their Muslim neighbors to care about such insignificant things.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Friday on September 20, 2010, 04:06:54 AM
So his wife was in town and I ran into her at a mutual friend's house

So she says in front of everyone just out of the blue basically as soon as I walk in

"I have to leave. I can't be around her, I feel like she's undressing me with her eyes."

Along with everyone else, I just stand there dumbfounded that someone would say this out loud in seriousness

then i throw my head back and roar with laughter as she leaves




























p.s. i totally was
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Niku on September 20, 2010, 06:34:37 AM
friday we have told you about taking your eyestalks out of their sockets in public

you sinful shameful strumpet
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: Joxam on September 20, 2010, 06:59:36 AM
You should have just winked at her and slapped her on the ass as she walked out.
Title: Re: Religion Took My Friend Away
Post by: R^2 on September 21, 2010, 01:58:01 PM
I've found that laughing in the face of stupid is often the only response that makes sense.