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Author Topic: What's wrong with bein' sexy?  (Read 29366 times)

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Disposable Ninja

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #380 on: August 08, 2013, 02:51:55 AM »

The really telling thing there is that castration is a guaranteed permanent end to the guy's sex life.

Only if you're really unimaginative.
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Classic

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #381 on: August 08, 2013, 02:52:59 AM »

Also.. isn't castration usually the removal of the testes and not the penis?
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Mongrel

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #382 on: August 08, 2013, 03:21:42 AM »

Okay, sure a eunuch can be a bottom or something, but I think you guys get the idea.
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Büge

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #383 on: August 08, 2013, 03:23:25 AM »

And then there was Ultimates where Hulk killed a bunch of people while trying to find and rape Freddie Prinze Jr.

Those of you who haven't read Ultimates may think I'm joking.  I'm not joking.  That actually happens.

Let's not forget how he turned Hank Pym into an abusive wife-beating creep, a stigma that contaminated the mainstream character.

Okay, sure a eunuch can be a bottom or something, but I think you guys get the idea.

The technical term is "catamite."
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Bal

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #384 on: August 08, 2013, 05:18:58 AM »

Hank Pym smacked Janet back in the 80's or something in the 616 universe. In mitigation, he was in the middle of the same psychotic episode that generated Ultron, and he didn't go all lunatic bug spray on her, but that's where that comes from. It's also managed to be obnoxiously character defining over the years, in that no one ever lets him forget it, despite, say, that time Reed smacked Sue with nowhere near as good a reason and no one cares at all.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #385 on: August 08, 2013, 06:39:07 AM »

Okay, sure a eunuch can be a bottom or something, but I think you guys get the idea.

... shit I didn't even think about that.
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Büge

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #386 on: August 08, 2013, 06:40:32 AM »

Hank Pym smacked Janet back in the 80's or something in the 616 universe. In mitigation, he was in the middle of the same psychotic episode that generated Ultron, and he didn't go all lunatic bug spray on her, but that's where that comes from. It's also managed to be obnoxiously character defining over the years, in that no one ever lets him forget it, despite, say, that time Reed smacked Sue with nowhere near as good a reason and no one cares at all.

Or that time Peter backhanded Mary-Jane while she was pregnant.

Which, I'll admit, was during the Clone Saga.
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Thad

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #387 on: August 08, 2013, 12:06:28 PM »

Hank Pym smacked Janet back in the 80's or something in the 616 universe. In mitigation, he was in the middle of the same psychotic episode that generated Ultron, and he didn't go all lunatic bug spray on her, but that's where that comes from. It's also managed to be obnoxiously character defining over the years, in that no one ever lets him forget it, despite, say, that time Reed smacked Sue with nowhere near as good a reason and no one cares at all.

Per Brian Cronin -- who sites both writer Jim Shooter and artist Bob Hall -- it was also not in the script.  As Shooter wrote it, Hank was supposed to throw up his hands in frustration and accidentally strike her; per Hall, he tried drawing the sequence multiple times and just couldn't make it work and decided to, in his words, "do Marvel Action" and make him haul off and smack her.

Or that time Peter backhanded Mary-Jane while she was pregnant.

Which, I'll admit, was during the Clone Saga.

Which I think is why all the fans pretty much immediately decided It Didn't Happen and have basically ignored it.  (And of course now, post-Brand New Day, it actually DIDN'T happen, canonically.)

I think the major difference is that people generally liked Peter Parker and hated the Clone Saga.  Collective shrug; fandom decides It Doesn't Count.

Whereas, in a lot of people's minds, hitting Jan was the most interesting thing Hank Pym had ever done, and so it became permanently attached to his character, like Iron Man's alcoholism or any number of other horrible albatrosses that various people put around heroes' necks in the 1980's.

Bal's right -- Hank was "the wife-beater" in fandom's minds years before Millar got ahold of him.  It was even a major element both of Busiek's main Avengers run (with Perez on art, for most of it) and the Avengers Forever mini that he co-wrote with Roger Stern (drawn by Carlos Pacheco).

I actually thought Millar's creepy take was the highlight of Ultimates -- just as I think Marvel should have let him and Hitch kill off Stark and Fury at the end of their run like they planned.  I think that kind of stuff is exactly the sort of thing that the Ultimate Universe should do -- really jarring stuff that violates the hell out of the kind of status quo that the main MU has built up over the past 50 years.

In practice, of course, the MU's just gotten more like the Ultimate U and vice-versa, to the point where it doesn't really make much sense to have both anymore, and we're once again on the verge of a Big Event which is rumored to be the end of the Ultimate Universe.

(Bears adding, though, that for all the influence The Ultimates had on the Avengers and its related films, most of that influence is from Hitch, not Millar.  Scott Kurtz's obnoxious little "Which looks more like the Avengers you saw in the movie?" post has a point -- but the point it ignores is, which characters ACT more like the Avengers you saw in the movie?  Movie Captain America may dress like Ultimate Captain America, but his behavior unmistakably draws from Simon, Kirby, Lee, Brubaker -- but not Millar.  Not for a second.)
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Bal

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #388 on: August 08, 2013, 03:11:59 PM »

It's not just the fandom that's labeled Pym that way. It ruined Janet for ages too because she was the increasingly shrill and obnoxious "victim" of Hank's "abuse", which even with the extra oomph added to the smack by the artist was clearly unintentional from the beginning, but at some point shortly after that they decided to make Hank and Janet be the "domestic violence is bad" couple. Which would have been a lot more effective with an actual history of that. Even as recently as (IIRC) Civil War there was a whole issue about Janet not being able to forgive him.  Fortunately the characters seem to have recovered recently. Hank is with Tigra, and Janet is much more tolerable (for a lot of reasons) now that she's back from the dead.
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Thad

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #389 on: August 08, 2013, 05:09:14 PM »

Bleeding Cool has a rather more thorough list of rapes in Millar comics (with a bit of Moore and Ennis thrown in for compare-and-contrast).  It bears noting, but may be hairsplitting, that Apollo's rape didn't really make it to the page; even as originally drawn it was ambiguous, but Levitz had it cut from Teuton fondling him to just propositioning him.  Which I suppose is a surprisingly respectful thing to do to a guy who's chained to the wall.

That aside, yeah there sure are a whole lot of references to rapes in Millar comics.

(Not sure about whether the scene where -- another Kick-Ass 2 spoiler coming -- [spoiler]the guy gets decapitated and they put his dog's head on his body[/spoiler] will be in the movie, but I would assume the biggest rationale for cutting it wouldn't be that it's too violent so much as that everybody already saw that exact visual in something else two months ago.)
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Thad

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Re: What's wrong with bein' sexy?
« Reply #390 on: August 13, 2013, 04:35:30 PM »

ComicsAlliance: spoiler-tagged bit from previous post also cut from film.

Mintz-Plasse says "it's a little too much [...] a little too dark", which I happen to agree with, but I'm also pretty goddamn sure that the decision to cut the spoiler-tagged bit is because it's derivative as fuck of a recent scene from a popular television show.
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