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Author Topic: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero  (Read 4617 times)

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Brentai

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2010, 04:35:46 PM »

To clarify, I'm arguing with the Devil, not with Bal, because I know Bal is not an idiot.

...that wasn't meant to be as backhanded as it came out.  YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
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Bal

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2010, 04:36:45 PM »

Are you just being stupid on purpose? Where do I say that? Muslims did a bad thing right next to where other Muslims are doing something that is overtly Muslim. The (mostly emotional) associations are painfully obvious. This is in somewhat poor taste to me, but I still think they should do it. How hard is it to comprehend?

EDIT: Just to clarify my personal view on the matter a little bit, my first reaction was to the news was "huh, that's in kind of poor taste", which, to me, is usually a sign that something is a good idea. Being in poor taste, to my mind, is often a sign of some kind of progress.
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Mongrel

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2010, 04:48:22 PM »

What about the part where you balled all the Muslims up in a giant rolling Katamari of Ignorance?
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Bal

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2010, 04:50:03 PM »

But that's what the King of All Cosmos needed for the next planet.
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Frocto

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2010, 05:56:03 PM »

Yes, because there is exactly no way in which an incendiary nutjob finding out he gets to talk to a cabinet member just because he's an incendiary nutjob could ever cause any problems down the road, ever.

Queensland lawyer Alex Stewart smokes pages from the Koran and Bible
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"And it is because they have fallen prey to a weakened, feminized version of Christianity that is only about softer virtues such as compassion and not in any part about the muscular Christian virtues of individual responsibility and accountability."

Büge

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2010, 06:31:51 PM »

Muslims did a bad thing right next to where other Muslims are doing something that is overtly Muslim.

What's so 'overtly Muslim' about building a community centre with a prayer room?
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Classic

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2010, 06:47:11 PM »

... The name?
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Ted Belmont

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2010, 06:53:34 PM »

Park51 is totally Muslim you guys

Also:
Quote
About Park51: Park51 is a nonsectarian community, cultural and interfaith spiritual center along with a Muslim prayer area and a monument to honor all those we lost on 9/11.

Those bastards.
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Classic

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2010, 06:55:48 PM »

see arabic numerals are inherently muslim
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Shinra

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2010, 07:29:35 PM »

Are you just being stupid on purpose? Where do I say that? Muslims did a bad thing right next to where other Muslims are doing something that is overtly Muslim. The (mostly emotional) associations are painfully obvious. This is in somewhat poor taste to me, but I still think they should do it. How hard is it to comprehend?

EDIT: Just to clarify my personal view on the matter a little bit, my first reaction was to the news was "huh, that's in kind of poor taste", which, to me, is usually a sign that something is a good idea. Being in poor taste, to my mind, is often a sign of some kind of progress.

I started to build a list of things you couldn't build in good taste, but around the time I realized you couldn't build a christian church anywhere in the world without cataloging the atrocities committed in the name of religion, I realized just how fucking absurd the idea is. (Here's an example of what I mean.)

Being Muslim in America is not in poor taste. Expecting, as a muslim, to have the right to build a business wherever you choose is not in poor taste. This is America, and at the end of the day we're all Americans. We all get the same rights, regardless if we call God Yahweh or Allah, or if we call our holy book the Koran or The Bible. If you don't like it, I understand there are other countries that don't value religious and personal freedoms like we do.

Honestly, Bal, I can't blame you for feeling this way - a lot of Americans felt the same way after Pearl Harbor about the Japanese. I can't expect Americans to have grown out of scapegoating an entire ethnic group for the mistakes of a few, wholly unrelated extremists from across the Ocean. Having said that, knowing you to be a rational, sane adult, I have to say I'm pretty disappointed in you.  Hopefully you'll have a stroke of sanity sometime in the coming years and you won't end up like my grandparents, spending the rest of their lives regretting what we did to the Japanese.
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Bal

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2010, 08:01:00 PM »

Are you fucking psychotic Shinra? Oh wait, it's Shinra. Every single post I made is in support of their building the thing. I even said that I wouldn't feel any worse about it if it were a Mosque, or even a memorial to the fucking terrorists that died that day. My first post on the subject was that they absolutely have the right to build. I've often questioned your reading comprehension skills over the years Shinra, but I think this is the first time you've managed to personally offend me with your lack in them.
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Shinra

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2010, 10:12:43 PM »

I like how every time I say something you disagree with you just brush it off with "Oh, right, it's Shinra gais!" as if to infer my point is invalid because I was an irrational asshole when we were in a WoW guild together four years ago.

You need to get over that shit, brah. It just makes you look dumb.

Having said that, I want to point out that you've said at least four times in the last page and a half of posts that this is "In poor taste", which is what I'm taking offense to. You're basically saying "Being a muslim in new york is in poor taste", which would be hilarious if it wasn't so intolerant and stupid.
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Bal

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2010, 11:04:11 PM »

What you choose to infer from my statements is entirely up to you, but I would prefer you not put words in my mouth. As for the other matter, clearly you are still an irrational asshole, because you can't read a god damned sentence and retain its meaning. Saying that a specific act is in poor taste and declaring all New York Muslims to be the same is a ridiculous leap, even for someone as ridiculous as you.
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Lottel

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2010, 05:10:16 AM »

"They are building a mosque on Ground Zero? Ok?"
"Oh? It's not a mosque, but a community centre with a rug in it?"
"Oh? It's not actually on Ground Zero?"
"..."
"Why is this news?"

I have no idea why there is even four pages of dialogue on this.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2010, 07:25:26 AM »

It's not just news, Lottel.

It's Fox News.
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Krankor

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2010, 08:43:41 AM »

"Lemon:  Don't you think it's a bit different considering what happened on 9/11?  And the people have said there's a need for it in Lower Manhattan, so that's why it's being built there.   What about 10, 20 blocks . . . Midtown Manhattan, considering the circumstances behind this?  That's not understandable?

Patel:  In America, we don't tell people based on their race or religion or ethnicity that they are free in this place, but not in that place --

Lemon:  [interrupting] I understand that, but there's always context, Mr. Patel . . . this is an extraordinary circumstance.  You understand that this is very heated.  Many people lost their loved ones on 9/11 --

Patel: Including Muslim Americans who lost their loved ones. . .  .

Lemon:  Consider the context here.  That's what I'm talking about.

Patel:  I have to tell you that this seems a little like telling black people 50 years ago:  you can sit anywhere on the bus you like - just not in the front.

Lemon:  I think that's apples and oranges - I don't think that black people were behind a Terrorist plot to kill people and drive planes into a building.  That's a completely different circumstance.

Patel:  And American Muslims were not behind the terrorist plot either."

 :done:
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Shinra

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2010, 12:03:47 PM »

lock this thread because Krankor here just ended it.
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Thad

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Re: Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2010, 08:23:52 PM »

The fears are valid, but not sound.  The historical premise is correct, but the fact that the mosque is not.  Your attack on me is misguided, as I am only trying to display a possibility of the basic logic employed by the pastor in question, rather than the poo-poo him on the spot as an incendiary nutjob - something that the lot of you are doing.

This entire paragraph is just incoherent.  Care to try again?

The bottom line is Gates did that because he cares for his soldiers and will do what is required to see them succeed in their mission in accordance with direction from the POTUS.  This is what he did, and in doing so he has been more reasonable and effective than your sensationalist and/or inaccurate MSM

Dude, if it weren't for the sensationalist and/or inaccurate MSM, nobody would have even known about either the community center (which, in accordance with sensationalism and/or inaccuracy, you continue to refer to as a "mosque") OR the dumbass burning Korans.  (Who would also quite possibly not have been burning Korans if not for the sensationalist and/or inaccurate MSM talking about the "Ground Zero Mosque" every day.)  Saying the MSM has been ineffectual in calming the situation down is sort of like lecturing an arsonist about how a hose would be a more effective firefighting tool than gasoline and matches.

Trust me, the reputation of the DNC is such that the more liberals like you whine and say mean names, the more hardline conservatives are emboldened.  They have all but given up on talking to you in a rational fashion.  I'm almost there myself.

Yes, you make an excellent point.  I remember when Bill O'Reilly used to try and engage liberals calmly and rationally and how he just gave up after mean old Al Franken called him a liar just because he kept lying all the time.

The Pastor now has an opportunity to better understand the premises of the situation.

He always had the opportunity.  While I grant that there's pretty much nowhere to go from "I'm going to burn a holy book that represents a fifth of the world's population" except closer to finding a middle-ground, that still doesn't make it a great place to start.

It's cute that you paint this as a "Perfectly reasonable nutjob was going to do something crazy just because a bunch of liberals said it was crazy" standoff, but unfortunately for that narrative, he had religious leaders from all over the country, from all places in the political spectrum, contacting him and begging him, in very polite and conciliatory tones, to seek a different path.  Gates wasn't the only guy who called him, he was just the highest-profile.

Other people may follow their example, but others may not.  People with a conservative background and have influence are likely to respect the request of the Cabinet member due to a combination of the fine taste in political credential (in their mind), his position, and his reputation.  Yes, the phone call might give him more credibility, but it gives him the opportunity to save face in front of his congregation - something the lot of you have outright denied.

Please point me to the post where a single person, let alone "the lot of us", denied this allows him to save face in front of his congregation.  If you're not too busy unfriending people on Facebook and writing passive-aggressive posts in other threads.

Getting a personal phone call from a Cabinet official is hardly the only way he could have saved face in front of his congregation.  He could have said he received a revelatory vision of Jesus in a taco.  Or, I don't know, lied and said that the imam called him and told him he was going to move the "mosque".

Or maybe he could have found some passage somewhere in the New Testament about how you should be nice to people even if you think they're bad people, and given a sermon about that.  Is there anything like that in there?

there are a lot of people who are still very emotionally scarred by that day, and wouldn't want a constant reminder such as that within sight of the place.

It's not within sight of ground zero, there are several large buildings in the way.

Pretty much this.  I suspect that many of the people making the "two blocks" argument have never been to Manhattan and do not understand the difference between a city block there and a city block in, say, Tempe.

Not to say there aren't New Yorkers protesting, of course.  But most of the drumbeat is coming from outside of the city.

It's in poor taste because if you could build it somewhere else, it wouldn't offend a soul (who isn't offended by everything Islam related of course).

But that's just it -- anyone lumping one group of Muslims in with a completely different group of Muslims, based solely on the fact that they're Muslim, is prejudiced against Muslims.  That's the very definition of prejudice.  The people who are mad about a "mosque" in Manhattan would be just as mad if it were in, I don't know, Tennessee.
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Mongrel

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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #78 on: September 15, 2010, 03:51:22 AM »

Actually, there may not be any point in replying to SCD's posts. I think he may have vanished off the forum and possibly the face of the planet.

Woo-eee!~
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Re: Eid al-Adha at Ground Zero
« Reply #79 on: September 15, 2010, 04:48:47 AM »

Aw. He always meant well, even when he apparently decided to embrace his insanity.
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