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[Ziiro]

Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad.

I get that a lot.

[Bal]

WHY WOULD ANYONE PUT STUNS IN AN ACTION GAME

[Friday]

Heavies are defensive anyway, and shouldn't be charging much less alone

In almost all cases if you are playing a Heavy on offense, you really should be playing a Soldier or Pyro

Heavies need to make the enemy come to them to be really effective, not the other way around

Not saying heavies are useless on offense or anything but this is just what my personal experience tells me (also watching top players and who they play in what situations)

ofc I've played Heavy on offense numerous times and done fine

my point is that I almost always do much better with my heavy when defending

[François]

The heavy on offense is a distraction who exists to draw fire away from the real punch of the team; his firepower becomes a potential threat instead of a direct one. You can't afford not to shoot him because you absolutely can't let him get close, but while you're chipping away at his HP you're not killing the soldiers, demos and scouts around him.

[Makaris]

Meh, as a person that plays A LOT of Heavy I find he really only functions well on semi-cramped maps whilst defending an already captured point, especially on KOTH.  Beyond that, virtually every other situation would be better served by a competent soldier.

He also happens to be quite effective in an offensive role on payload maps... for obvious reasons (and only when it isn't a long walk getting back to the cart).  Though I suspect if the defending team has it's shit together a hailstorm of stickies and rockets would make attempting this a bad idea.

On his own without team support a Heavy can still get some good mileage when preforming in his premiere role; dissuasion.  He makes people reconsider their tactics and can stop a point capture before it has truly begun.  Once the enemy comes with the proper counters or mass, the Heavy will be forced to retreat.  But if the enemy team doesn't manage to get it's shit together to dislodge the Heavy (as happens quite often!), he can stop any attempted captures for a good long while, especially with sandvich support.  It should be mentioned that, against the better players, this doesn't work nearly as well.  This is mostly because good players know that Heavy's medium and long range damage are laughable and pretty much any class can out damage him.  Most people don't seem to know that though, and run away from any Heavy's they see except at the most extreme ranges until they can get some backup... or a better player takes care of the situation.

Honestly, over all the suggested Heavy fixes, just improving his medium range damage would go a long way.

[Mongrel]

The Dolokohs bar is actually kind of funny if you know about Russians and chocolate.

shokolad

Yeah, I know that. Starr actually pointed that out the instant she saw it. That's not what I was talking about.

Dolokohs is just the name they came up with - a cute bit of wordplay. The joke about Russians and chocolate is that not only do Russians love chocolate the way Englishmen love tea, they actually make some of the best chocolate in the world.

When you say "World-class chocolate" people usually start thinking of say... Belguim, or maybe something South American. The frozen radioactive wastes of Soviet Russia hardly come to mind. But there you go. The Russians themselves recognise this a bit and sometime make fun of themselves for it. Sometimes the world's funny like that.

[Mongrel]

You guys are kuh-razy if you think being able to make use of the defining feature of another class(Scout's Double Cap) isn't worth taking an extra 1-6 points of damage from bullet weapons. 10% is a joke.

Double cap rate is huge. I really, really want to try gunboats + pain train.  

Also: Does anyone know if the Pain Train's effect works continuously (i.e. no matter what weapon you have out), or if you have to have it as your active weapon to have any effect?

Because wherether or not you can have your rocket launcher out while capping a point at double speed is pretty damned important.

[yyler]

Both properties of it are passive, like the targe

[Mongrel]

Oh dear.

[Defenseless Cow]

I'll definitely roll with the pain train for demo, but with soldier, I'm too used to the equalizer to switch back.

[Bongo Bill]

p.s. all other retardation aside, why doesn't the demoman get the homewrecker since it+targe makes more sense (in a really fucking stupid way) since a demo with targe won't have his stickies to destroy buildings with anyway

Because they'd have to make a new animation for it, whereas an ax is already used like a sledgehammer. TF2's sales are slowing down, and Valve are likely diverting staff to new games. Portal 2, Left 4 Dead 3 through 8, and maybe beginning a bit of work on Half-Life 2 Episode 3.

One thing that must be noted about the community content is that it represents a way to reduce development costs, the importance of which is only going to increase over time, long tail or no long tail. It stands to reason that they're going to want to reduce playtesting costs as well as the costs of asset development. So what's the easiest (cheapest) way to make sure a new item won't disrupt the balance of the game? Err on the side of making them underpowered rather than overpowered.

Now, I don't know how balanced the Pain Train is. My guess would be "not," but trying to reduce the costs of continuing to support the game doesn't mean they're abandoning it completely. They'll likely fix it, just like they fixed the Sandman.

[Niku]

p.s. all other retardation aside, why doesn't the demoman get the homewrecker since it+targe makes more sense (in a really fucking stupid way) since a demo with targe won't have his stickies to destroy buildings with anyway

Because they'd have to make a new animation for it, whereas an ax is already used like a sledgehammer.

itt bongobill forgets the eyelander exists

[Bongo Bill]

Holding a hammer the way the Demoman uses the Eyelander would look only a tiny bit less odd than holding it the way he uses his bottle.

[Niku]

he .. holds the sword two handed?

[Bongo Bill]

He swings it like an object whose weight is not all at the very end of it. It is two-handed, but it's not nearly as close to the way a sledgehammer is actually used as an axe is. Also, the taunt would be incredibly awkward-looking. Giving it to the Pyro means they can just drop the model in place and it'll work.

[Kayin]

One thing that must be noted about the community content is that it represents a way to reduce development costs, the importance of which is only going to increase over time, long tail or no long tail. It stands to reason that they're going to want to reduce playtesting costs as well as the costs of asset development. So what's the easiest (cheapest) way to make sure a new item won't disrupt the balance of the game? Err on the side of making them underpowered rather than overpowered.

Now, I don't know how balanced the Pain Train is. My guess would be "not," but trying to reduce the costs of continuing to support the game doesn't mean they're abandoning it completely. They'll likely fix it, just like they fixed the Sandman.

Just one thing I gotta say here is while this is obviously true, I'd actually prefer they stopped (well, after the engineer update) then just resort to releasing crap. Let the game become eternal. Let it settle. There is something to be said about a game that is fixed. If Valve can continue updates past the engineer update that are quality, fine, but other wise God, let the games development end on a graceful note. I don't want to look back at the game 5 years ago and go "Man, that game was good originally, then they just ruined it by flooding it with needless shit. :( Such a shame."

That said, Valve's gotta make money and constantly getting new people to buy TF2 is a big deal, but honestly, who's excited about the homewrecker because it does more damage on buildings? These weapons could have all been neatly alternative 'skins' for pre-existing weapons and gotten the same amount of excitement from the community to have them. If we've seen anything, people are fucking crazy for customizable aesthetics.

So really, I again am just disappointed in Valve. Perhaps the situation will improve. Things will probably just be annoying rather than bad at least, but we'll see. Maybe the next round of items will be a little smarter.

[Makaris]

Well, the obvious reason Valve still updates TF2 is that it brings people to Steam, gets more eyes on their ads and subsequently gets them more revenue.  The sales of TF2 itself are not nearly as important as this.  Not meaning to be disbarraging, I think it's a great business model and offers a lot to the consumer. At least, it did.

I would bet some market analyst or whatever over at Valve saw a trend and figured that TF2 wasn't bringing as many new people to Steam as before.  Valve might end up trying some more wacky shit to get the gravy train rolling again.  Don't expect them to give much of a damn if TF2 dies gracefully or not.

[Mongrel]

disbarraging

This is a beautiful word. <3

[Makaris]

haha, someone turned my p upside down.

Edit:  and rearranged a few other letters.

[Bal]

How does introducing an item you don't like remove all the fun items you can still use.