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[patito]

Flamethrower did too much damage and made the backburner useless, so they just decided to fix that.

[Lottel]

But now a pyro can't charge a class and hope to kill them without circling strafing. It used to be I could charge a solly and kill them 60% of the time.
This means a pyro needs to be sneakier than before. Making the backburner slightly more useful.
Take away the damage or take away the long burn. Not both. Not at once.

[Bongo Bill]

I've heard that the Flamethrower nerf was also applied to the Backburner, which, if true, is probably an accident.

My own testing suggests that the airblast can now be fired faster than any of the projectiles it reflects.

It also appears that the Heavy's run speed was also increased while not spun up; since this was not mentioned in the patch notes, it's probably accidental, but it is also glorious.

[Makaris]

But the Flamethrower didn't really do that much damage at all.  DPS wise it was out preformed by a lot of other weapons.

The Pyro has kinda lost it's niche to many other classes (no mobility to flank, damage not so hot, afterburn a joke that just got jokerier), so Valve has made it into this very weird pseudo-support class that doesn't do anything very important.

Making the Flamethrower into the Leafblower does indeed enhance the Pyro's abilities vs. Soldiers and Demo's, but even with this the Pyro could hardly be called a counter.

I have no idea why they messed with the afterburn, most of all.  Was this a really cockamamie way to upgrade the Backburner without upgrading the Backburner?

I wonder what motivated that change?  I mean, from all accounts the Pyro was, if anything, UP.

[Bongo Bill]

We'll see if airblast judo is adequate to move Pyro into a more well-defined niche. Without that, what is there for him apart from being an Engineer Buddy?

[patito]

It used to be I could charge a solly and kill them 60% of the time.

Hahah, charging a soldier and killing him 60% while the pyro dies 100% of the time in that situation is not a good thing to do. You were always supposed to be sneaky, not just for backburner crits.

In any case I do agree that the nerfs were unnecessary but you were doing pyro wrong in the first place.

[Makaris]

In my experience when a Pyro and a Soldier meet up in any but the most close-range circumstnaces, it's usually an awkward few moments of figuring out whether to shotgun each other or airblast.  And then a third party usually shows up that ends that.

[Defenseless Cow]

Logic follows when fighting pyro's, specifically if I know they can airblast.

If flamethrower out- shoot shotgun.

If not flamethrower out- shoot rockets.

[Lottel]

It used to be I could charge a solly and kill them 60% of the time.

Hahah, charging a soldier and killing him 60% while the pyro dies 100% of the time in that situation is not a good thing to do. You were always supposed to be sneaky, not just for backburner crits.

In any case I do agree that the nerfs were unnecessary but you were doing pyro wrong in the first place.

Ok. Maybe I should clarify: When not on ShMo I could charge and kill a soldier most of the time and live. On ShMo, I could often kill the soldier but I'd usually die.

I mean, it wasn't my main tactic, but I did it when I couldn't do much else.

[Kayin]

Pyro can do a LOT of damage if you can keep a stream on someone. He gets competitive use BECAUSE of the massive damage potential of the flame thrower.  Not to say it needed a nerf obviously. Thats sort of the point.

Anyways this is the logic I think went through Valve's head.

Guy A: "Hm, Pyro needs to be better. Poofer seems a good place to start."

Guy B: "How about it repels faster and takes less fuel?"

Guy C: "Nah, thats boring. Reflected stuff should do more damage."

Guy A: "Well I don't know, both sound pretty good!"

ALL 3: "LETS DO BOTH"

Guy A: "Okay but lets nerf the flame thrower damage to compensate!"

I dunno, I think it's stupid as one package. I think the mini crits alone is good enough. Maybe the cost too... But the speed boost and the mini crits should NOT be together. Slick pyros can now reflect pretty much on reaction at a lot of ranges AND it does a lot more damage AND theres no reason not to because it's pretty cheap. That just makes things obnoxious. The Pyro also suffers at his actual role too because of this. I'd personally take away the poof speed and make the ammo reduction less major (35? I dunno) and leave the mini crits but give back damage on the flame thrower. As for the flame thrower, I'd like it to do less afterburn on a glance, but more after a second or two of really being put on fire. A larger radius for the flame thrower (where the edges just get you a short burn) could also be a buff.

[Joxam]

The original poof was only 25 ammo. Just being picky about your post, I know, but it was!

[Kayin]

disregard that I suck cocks. I thought it was 50 for some reason which, thinking about it now, is insane.

[Catloaf]

Yeah, the Pyro is the one who needed a nerf....

The class meant to be able to win or at least tie scraps in very short range who can't even do that all that commonly anymore needs to do less damage with his main weapon.  Sure he has more asshole/defensive capabilities now, but a pyro was not intended to be a Judo type character, who's attack is entirely based on his opponent's.

Here's what I want:
-get rid of the poof-back mini-crit
(one of the following two, not both)
-if damage must be reduced, modify the fall off rate so at least all the damn particles hit like they're supposed to and yield his theoretical DPS rather than actual.  (The current drop of calculation fucks up somehow in making many of the particles (that should at least ignite them) miss while the ones that hit do less damage)
OR
-Make fire do more damage the more you've been burned.  Meaning, if you're staying the same distance from an attacking Pyro and still being hit, you'll be gradually taking more and more damage (at most 3 per particle hit, with the magic of decimals doing most of the ramp up.) and if you were being hit by a Pyro for 5 seconds straight (and survived due to medic, range, luck), your first few ticks of afterburn would be more damaging than usual.  The overall effect of this being a virtually unchanged average DPS, but a greatly reduced DPS for short encounters.

[Makaris]

I don't know Kayin, from my observation and a lot of reading the Flamethrower doesn't really pack the sorta punch it outta.  Maybe the flat-damage in a ideal situation would be highish, but he can be knocked back just as easy as any other class and has no special speed or mobility to try to attain his attacking position again.  He just has to die and start over.  He is like the Heavy in that way.  Only really in his groove given a small window of opportunity... cept the Heavy did waaaay more damage and saw a huge buff, too.  

Moving the Pyro's emphasis to 'that guy with the poofer' is... urgh.  Maybe it isn't BAD in an overall balance view, but it just seems uninspired and boring.  I don't feel like doing nothing but poofing.  I gotta get a sound mod that makes the Flamethrower sound like a leafblower.

Honestly, I feel that if you fix the afterburn, you fix the pyro.  The main reason I read that the Pyro sees almost no use is that afterburn is just Uberfuel.  In any serious match an enemy medic should be happy to have a burning team.  "Slow damage that is easily thwarted but yields tremendous uber-gains?  Oh boy!"  That shouldn't be the case.

Also, fix the damn hit detection.   

[Niku]

I gotta say, having no damage indication / crosshair-jerking is incredibly weird.  It makes it absolutely offputting to play as Sniper when you can't actually tell you're getting hit while scoped in except for your health going down.  Valve needs to learn how to fucking playtest their patches already.

[Makaris]

Though, all things considered, if you can keep your health awareness up the Sniper just got a pretty big bug-buff.

[NexAdruin]

I like catloaf's idea (specifically, fire doing more damage the more you've been burned) except I'm okay with reflected shots being mini-crits. Flamethrower judo is not exactly easy (although I haven't tried it since the patch).

[Kayin]

difficulty isn't a particularly good balancing tool. Being able to (Theoretically) with enough skill, basically be totally standoffish with a soldier at medium range is just stupid and degenerate -- which is why I do like the mini crits better. One risks bad game play. Thats why I hate the Targe so much. It's not 'too good' (it can be in small games sometimes but whatever), it's just stupid. The damage reduction is just dumb and is trying to 'force' the class to work at the expense of enjoyment of the other classes. IN FACT THATS EVEN WORSE. I like the poofer because he's interactive at least, as long as it's not like, stalemating rocket attacks.

Balancing the Pyro is rough because it's basically a fast, more fragile heavy that does less damage. But the idea is the same. Drop in on people and do lots of damage. Making pyro have more utility and an active defense seems to make sense but like, I DUNNO MAN, I JUST DON'T KNOW. Thinking more on the topic maybe after burn should do less damage and last longer. Maybe even more damage over time, but make it easier for people to get to health packs. The whole idea then being that, with a bit more 'glancing' range, the utility of scattering people away would increase.

Just a thought. The pyro could also benefit from more mobility but I don't know how that would work without stepping on another classes toes.

[MadMAxJr]

Some great bugs, bugs, and more bugs in this patch.

Seems building via the console is a bit BROKEN right now.  Someone said spy engineers can build using the commandline, but I haven't seen proof yet.

[Mongrel]

*Long, low, descending whistle*