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[Bal]

Soldiers are still very good at killing sentries. Rockets don't have damage fall off against them, and their splash is often sufficient to kill the engineer himself, which of course makes finishing off the sentry itself a simple matter. One tip is not to empty your launcher and start chain reload firing. That's definitely far too wide an interval between shots.

If the engineer is actively tanking the sentry, and safe from your splash, it is harder, but if you're out of range of the sentry you can run the engineer out of metal before you run out of rockets if you're chaining direct hits after full reloads.

[Mongrel]

To be frank I'm not enjoying playing TF2 so much lately. There's only so many times you can do the ol' meet sentry / switch to soldier / get fragged many times by roving scouts before you manage to beat sentry / switch back to a class worth the time playing before it gets tiresome.

Team Fortress means your slacking Team should be helping you with that senrty!

Yeah, sounds like an overdose of low-end pub-server retardery to me.

[Mongrel]

Soldiers are still very good at killing sentries. Rockets don't have damage fall off against them, and their splash is often sufficient to kill the engineer himself, which of course makes finishing off the sentry itself a simple matter. One tip is not to empty your launcher and start chain reload firing. That's definitely far too wide an interval between shots.

If the engineer is actively tanking the sentry, and safe from your splash, it is harder, but if you're out of range of the sentry you can run the engineer out of metal before you run out of rockets if you're chaining direct hits after full reloads.

Also, if you can, try and destroy the dispenser if the nest is really built up. Even if you don't destroy it outright, the splash will still catch the engineer and he'll have to switch tank targets. Most anyone can sit there and hold down M1 with their wrench aimed at their sentry, but only a good engineer can prioritize and switch to keep both buildings up (and sometimes even smart engineers have to abandon the dispenser if they're taking enough fire).

Unless that dispenser goes down, it's very difficult to deal enough damage to kill the engineer and basically impossible to make him run out of metal.

[Smiler]

If the engineer is actively tanking the sentry, and safe from your splash, it is harder, but if you're out of range of the sentry you can run the engineer out of metal before you run out of rockets if you're chaining direct hits after full reloads.

You'll be dead before this happens, which is Zara's problem.

[Doom]

Switch to Demo and use the charge function of the Sticky Launcher?

[Bal]

Maybe you'll be dead, but I do it all the time. It's not like I'm standing there just shooting rockets, oblivious to what is going on around me. An engineer tanking with a dispenser does not have an infinite supply of metal. Early in the round he may well have no more metal that what he's got in his pocket, and a couple of ticks off the dispenser, and that is very easy to grind through.

I'm not trying to swagger around like the best player in the world, or something. I get beat all the time, but claiming that probably the second best sentry killing class is bad at killing sentries is ridiculous.

EDIT: Before you ask:

1: Demoman
2: Soldier
3:Heavy/Pyro
4:Spy (yes, Spy)
5:Sniper (situational)
Everyone else down here.

[Mongrel]

Spy's rate of destrcutive effectiveness goes way way up if paired wth any effective teammate who can deal a reasonable amount of damage.

[Bal]

Oh yeah, those ratings are all class vs sentry, no teamwork taken into account. With teamwork spy jumps to first or second place, due to the extra damage taken by sapped builds, and the obvious fact that they're disabled. Of course, in this scenario the spy rarely gets the kill, but that's hardly the point.

[Mongrel]

Oh yeah, those ratings are all class vs sentry, no teamwork taken into account. With teamwork spy jumps to first or second place, due to the extra damage taken by sapped builds, and the obvious fact that they're disabled. Of course, in this scenario the spy rarely gets the kill, but that's hardly the point.

You know, I think that's one of the things that makes playing spy so damn diffcult. Spies tend not to communicate much with their team, possibly just because of the mentality of being a spy, but also on servers with alltalk, it's not really possible. Typing out useful commands takes far too long just distracts from your paranoia level (which is about all that keep you alive).

In circumstances where a spy CAN tell a few nominally competant teammates that he's about to sap a nest, they can coordinate for a fantastic push, but such circumstances are hard to come by. This is partially true of backstab sprees that break up a huge formation as well, though coordination isn't quite as vital in that case.

[Mongrel]

[random ramble, only peripherally relevant to the previous post]

One of the funniest sights I've ever seen on TF2 was as I was defending a cap point on Granary. The garage door opened and what do I see incoming? A teammate, playing spy, disguised as a pyro or heavy (I forget which), charging our point with two enemy medics healing him and no other support.

 

[Detonator]

"YOU FAILED."

This actually happened.

This actually happened.

Hey, that wasn't the final map.  You still have the final map in Goldrush to defend before you officially lose.

[Kazz]

I think if you had two soldiers shooting at the same sentry, it would go down.

Of course, it'd be a tremendous feat of organization to get two people doing the same thing at the same time in TF2.

[Brentai]

The other problem with coordinating with your team as Spy is that if you're anywhere nearby your team at any time you'll probably catch a stray bullet and that's the end of that.

[Bal]

I think if you had two soldiers shooting at the same sentry, it would go down.

Of course, it'd be a tremendous feat of organization to get two people doing the same thing at the same time in TF2.

Yes, definitely. If you unload all four rockets with direct hits against a tanked level 3 sentry gun you will bring it down to about 25% (maybe less), but the time it takes to reload will be plenty for the engineer to repair. Two soldiers will kill it, tanked or no.

[Mongrel]

The other problem with coordinating with your team as Spy is that if you're anywhere nearby your team at any time you'll probably catch a stray bullet and that's the end of that.

Yep.

SPY IS HAZARDOUS PROFESSION.

[Bal]

Spy coordination is really no more difficult that "hang on a couple seconds... ok, go"

[JDigital]

A good sentry placement can really shut down a disorganized team of attackers, especially on a payload map. First, it splits the attackers' attention three ways: pushing the cart, defending from the enemy, and destroying the sentry (further subdivided into attacking the engineer, attacking his teleporter exit, and attacking the sentry itself). The sentry makes it difficult to do any of these.

Worse, a disorganized team leaves spawn in ones and twos, each rushing out as soon as they spawn, where they're easily outnumbered. Rather than concert their efforts against the sentry, players fight defensively and wait for someone else to take out the sentry before moving forward.

A concerted firing squad of soldiers could make light work of a sentry farm. Five direct rocket hits at long range will take out a level 3 sentry. I can't find any statistics on how quickly an engineer can repair, but if I'm calculating this right it needs to be at least 20-25% per wrench hit per soldier to break even, or 10-15% per wrench hit if it can survive the first barrage and repair during reload, assuming he doesn't run out of metal.

[Bal]

With no repairs a level 3 sentry dies to three direct rocket hits, and as I've said four direct hits with repairs will still bring it dangerously low (20-25%). Two volleys from two soldiers should be enough to take out a tanked level 3, assuming all direct hits. You are correct in saying that sentries are a hard counter to personal glory fortress.

[Arc]

Hey, that wasn't the final map.  You still have the final map in Goldrush to defend before you officially lose.

Correct, but that wasn't my point. Brings up another quick question, however. Are wins and losses recorded onto our profiles anywhere?

[Rico]

Hey, that wasn't the final map.  You still have the final map in Goldrush to defend before you officially lose.

Fine, the final map the defense has any chance of losing on Goldrush.