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[Doom]

However, there's more solo content than there is group content.  You could say I'm experiencing most of the game, but not playing the bits of it that give the most reward.

Amending my statements to "You've never been inside an instance, have you?"

When the going gets tough, the tough strawman their detractors and hope they go away.

I know it's hard for some of the stupider posters to tell how I actually feel at any given time if I don't add a close-up shot of a popular cartoon character to my posts, so...

but that doesn't mean you can just repeat yourself and expect me to lie down in defeat.

That may be true, since repeating the truth at you seems pretty ineffective. I'm sure any fresh 70 with only half their head up their ass can make you "lie down" in defeat, though.

It's been fun, sir! I look forward to your posts that Wrath would be a lot better if all those darn dungeons and world pvp events weren't so tootin' mean.

I know that at this point your cowardice is a given, but could we bother you for your Server and Character Name? I think we'd like to directly mock your armory profile.

[King Klown]

Naxxramas looks exciting. I was one of those unfortunate people who didn't get to experience it Pre-BC. I can't wait to take the guild in their and mop up.

[A²]

mcFrugal, eBay your goddamn character if the thought of seeing someone's name in that light blue color sends you into such a tizzy. There are few things in WoW as simply satisfying as running an instance or doing PvP with a group of individuals who are just with it. You feel invincible. Big monsters are simply small bumps and no reason to get worried. You are part of a well-oiled machine that is just fucking everyone's shit up. And hey, sometimes you get bits of data to make your numbers higher at the end. You are refusing to play about 80% of the game, and then saying the game sucks. 

Doom: For me, Area 52, Gnome Mage (Deep Fire) Lyrai. You're going to see a lot of lyrais, look for the one part of the SOS Brigade guild.

I have no idea why there are so many Lyrais in WoW. Did I start a trend?

[Doom]

223 Achievements. All Heroic Dungeons done. I heard they tried a TK pug yesterday, but one of our guildies went for an hour and then returned to Shattrah, silent.

I saw the Raid Leader at the TK summon stone. 70 hunter in fresh quest greens. I guess you can't pug everything... yet.

Not much to do now on the ol' Shammy until Wrath launches. Just grind some money if I want that Shattered Sun title or Haris Pilton's Gigantique Sack. Maybe polish off "Loremaster of Outlands" for that last few hundred gold.

Or hell, get my Engineering from 305 to 375. Yeesh.

... Hmm, maybe I'll do some stuff on my din. Muck about with his talents a bit.

Up to 3/5 Days on "A Simple Re-Quest." Apparently cross-realm BGs reset or bug it? So.. can't pvp for the next two days. Ogri'La and Sha'tar rep are almost halfway to revered, but that's easy 1k rep a day stuff.

Mmm, epic flyer. Zoom.

[Doom]

Ikora, Spai and Rubicante of Horde Argent Dawn. A shame my armory profiles never update.

[Cthulhu-chan]

Pretend Cool Frog is saying "about" instead of "at".

also cut it out.

[Rico]

McFrugal:

So fuck you for suggesting I'm lazy for not doing it and whining for no reason.  In fact, fuck all of you who say I'm lazy and whining for no reason about PvP too.

I don't think any of us are saying you're lazy and whining for no reason. I think all of us are saying you're whining for retarded reasons because you could fix most of the things you're complaining about yourself in about 10 hours of gameplay: You know, that thing you're paying $15 a month for.

Really I have not seen a single statement you've made which makes any sense of the fact that you've paid for this game long enough to grind to 70 and that sit there.

Lyrai: You may want to play around with Frost a bit.  We're at similar gear levels on our mages and I was getting ~120 more DPS with a lot more survivability in PvE and PvP.  The trick is that until you're fighting some of the bosses that drop the T6-level gear that make Fire balls awesome the fights are so short that you have 100% water elemental uptime, sometimes even without Cold Snapping.

Be sure to toss 1 point into Imp. Blizzard for absolute hillarity.

[Shinra]

Except that in the context of an MMO, gear IS the meaning, or at least the carrot. Besides, I wasn't just talking about gear. Gear is the result of content, most of which cannot be completed without a group. Again, you are choosing not to participate in the lion's share of the game, and then complaining that you can't keep up.

Alright, I concede that point to you- gear is definitely a central element.

However, there's more solo content than there is group content.  You could say I'm experiencing most of the game, but not playing the bits of it that give the most reward.

Most of the content is solo? Since when?

Answer: Never. If you genuinely have the rocks to answering 'leveling', there are group quests in every zone and without a partner leveling is boring and tedious.

[McFrugal]

Quick reply to Shinra: There's more raw area in the world map than there is in dungeons, and more solo quests, so by my reasoning there's more content.  Overall, I like quests.  Some are boring, I guess.

Four other posts have been directed to me, and when I try to make a detailed reply it's way too big, even when simplifying my sentences.  So I'll try to sum it up.

Doom, you make strawman arguments a lot more than me, and in ways that affect your argument.  I shouldn't even continue past that, like I did with Pacobird.  I mean, once someone starts being creative with what the opponent says, there's no real argument anymore.  But you won't shut up.

-first doom post-
"you can all suck it" was meant to convey something like "I don't care about this discussion any more".  No, I don't afk in AV, I'm complaining about getting steamrolled.  I don't hate grouping, don't dislike pvp overall, am doing the bare minimum to improve my gear- pvping- and admitted I was wrong about the Savage set and the BoJ rewards.  HH has one thing I would want: the helm, which drops at 3%.  Prot would make even considering grouping impossible for me.  On my server, people don't ask for DPS much.  I only want a twohander, and I don't think grouping to get gear to make PvPing easier is worth it since I'm not going to be doing PvP after I get the twohander.  "assburgers" is a huge strawman.  You seem to play WoW a lot more than I do- does that make you less lazy than me?  Fyi, I wasn't 60 when AQ came out.

-second doom post-
You should know by reading my posts- I have gone into dungeons.  I don't know what strawman you're talking about; you replaced my "you're angry" bit with that, but doesn't match the definition.  If anything, my second statement is the strawman.  I figured you were angry because of the tone you used- more shrill than before- was that frustration?  Did you know turtles retreat into their shells and open their mouth when they're threatened?  "any fresh 70" are you doubting my skills sir  World PvP: I did wind up doing some HFP tower capping before flying 70's started shitting up the world pvp objectives in Outland.  I did not cap towers solo of course, and it was in Tich, a pvp server.  My character name and server could be easily found in another thread.  Were you too lazy to check it, or too addled to remember it?  I screwed up my talents, and I think you'll find my gear to be woefully inadequate, just like MY PENIS OHOHOHOHO  oh wait i mean yours

Lyrai-
I never had the pleasure of experiencing that, unless being overleveled counts.  I have been with parties that did well, but- perhaps because I was tanking and expected to take initiative- never felt like you describe.  I'm cautious, and don't make decisions quickly when time is readily available, although I've been told I was otherwise good at my job.

Rico-
Okay, not no reason.  Bad reasons that could be easily fixed were I not sooooo lazy.  That's what I meant by "no reason".
Would it help if I said that my parents decided to pay for my account so I would play at all?  I was playing once a week for about 3-4 hours before the Halloween event started, usually grouping with my family.  My parents kinda suck at the game but my brother's good, so it's a good experience overall.  Now that I'm trying to get that twohander, I'm playing about 3 times as much.  Of course that's not solid pvp grind.  I've been doing achievements and making money off of the AH.  So, it's taking a while to get enough Honor, and I'm getting steamrolled a lot.  That's my situation.

Sorry if my replies to doom are hard to follow, I was trying to keep the post length down by leaving out quotes.  I'm hoping you can get the point without having to refer back to his posts.  The good part is, this is about 3 times smaller than my original reply!  I do have a version of that saved, if this is unacceptable.

[Doom]

Doom, you make strawman arguments a lot more than me, and in ways that affect your argument.

Doom said it? Strawman.

Somebody else said it? Worth considering.

Pacobird said it? Oh god Strawman please go away.

Admittedly I am a little crazy and I like to quote passages and just present my interpretation/thoughts.

I shouldn't even continue past that, like I did with Pacobird.  I mean, once someone starts being creative with what the opponent says, there's no real argument anymore.  But you won't shut up.

WHAT A MAN

"you can all suck it" was meant to convey something like "I don't care about this discussion any more".

So say that. "You can all suck it" in the context of the argument is akin to telling us how proud you are to be lazy.

I'm complaining about getting steamrolled.... I don't hate grouping, don't dislike pvp overall, am doing the bare minimum to improve my gear- pvping- and admitted I was wrong about the Savage set and the BoJ rewards.

Well, good on you for actually doing anything despite all of your own posts to the contrary, I don't care about the BoJ and Savage stuff and I didn't bring it up, and you've DIRECTLY stated three times that you hate grouping.

HH has one thing I would want: the helm, which drops at 3%

Beg to differ, assuming your gear is bad enough that you actively browse the AH for it. Also, the helm drop rate isn't so bad that you couldn't hope against hope to see it in a full group clear and the sword is a fine side-arm. It's piss easy to have shouted I HAZ SUMMONZ TODAY for the 14 days it was available and get between 14-70 HH kills without trying to sneak into groups without your summon available.

Prot would make even considering grouping impossible for me.

Not if you wanted to man up and gear yourself from scratch, but I won't blame you for avoiding that with Wrath coming up. Prot is retardedly awesome these days, though.

I only want a twohander, and I don't think grouping to get gear to make PvPing easier is worth it since I'm not going to be doing PvP after I get the twohander.

I think we're all curious as to what, if anything, you do if you avoid grouping and are only pvping out of some brute necessity. You might honestly be happier to quit the game.

"assburgers" is a huge strawman.

No it isn't, it's a direct ad hominem attack. If you couldn't tell from Tiny Turtle, I'm picking on you for kicks. I was even nice enough to restart the dead argument.

You seem to play WoW a lot more than I do- does that make you less lazy than me?

Not necessarily, though I do think it's cute that I put myself in two perfect, pre-raid epic sets(Enhancement and Caster) in the three weeks since Patch 3.0 hit after not playing the Shaman for six months.

Fyi, I wasn't 60 when AQ came out.

Old timer joke for those of us who were. To listen to you complain about honor grinding and instancing now is hilarious to those of us who saw people spend literal days showing the Cenarion Expedition how much they wanted some epics.

To say nothing of opening those fucking gates.

You should know by reading my posts- I have gone into dungeons.

More ad hominem on my part and honest, joyful hyperbole that I'll elaborate on.

The first time I knew I rather enjoyed WoW was my first Gnomereagan run, primarily because of the final boss, who is a leprosy gnome in a giant mech who spews walking bombs out of pipes around his giant clockwork arena.

WoW has good solo content. There's no doubt. You seem like you could have a good time buying accounts, leveling to 70, selling them to fund the next, repeat.

But if you can see any of the awesome raid stuff without getting into poop-socking, you wouldn't regret it.(see: Doom sure does love Magtheridon and Gruul.)

I don't know what strawman you're talking about; you replaced my "you're angry" bit with that, but doesn't match the definition

If you're going to summarize my entire post as "That Doom Sure Is Angry", I see no reason not to treat you as anything better than a verbal punching bag.

And man what was up with that Pacobird thing. "Pretend Opponent Isn't There" is a little 

If anything, my second statement is the strawman.  I figured you were angry because of the tone you used- more shrill than before- was that frustration?  Did you know turtles retreat into their shells and open their mouth when they're threatened?

That's a lot more deeper meaning to a funny picture than I intended. If anything, it was a joke because the turtle is clearly not a popular cartoon character or even a cartoon.

"any fresh 70" are you doubting my skills sir

Yes. Even I bowed my head in shame when everybody told me that resilience is king, shut up. That you stand next to cliffs Post 3.0 is a bad sign.

World PvP: I did wind up doing some HFP tower capping before flying 70's started shitting up the world pvp objectives in Outland.  I did not cap towers solo of course, and it was in Tich, a pvp server.

Mmmhmm. Fun times. Rewards don't scale, though.

My character name and server could be easily found in another thread.  Were you too lazy to check it, or too addled to remember it?  I screwed up my talents, and I think you'll find my gear to be woefully inadequate, just like MY PENIS OHOHOHOHO  oh wait i mean yours

Sir if you want to verbally spar you could do yourself the favor of properly doubling your own fists before we get started.

I'm cautious, and don't make decisions quickly when time is readily available, although I've been told I was otherwise good at my job.

BUT THAT IS ALL IT TAKES. You start with caution and competence! You become a suicidal, chain-pulling ultra-aggro hero after gearing up! You're like a blossom that never bloomed!

Man, if anything McFrugal, try to group obsessively in Wrath. Find people you can trust and always go straight to them if you want to run anything and see if they do too.

I went to a new server(Argent Dawn) on the strength of my co-worker friends and now I can reliably do any heroic or raid I want. Groups definitely make this game at a certain point.

[Brentai]

I love this game.

[Alex]

I'm also going to have to confess that I've yet to experience this mystic joy of which Lyrai refers to since my only interest in doing instances was quests and the story (looooooooooooooool what story) segments.  There was only really the joy of spending time with people I'm friends with if anything and the joy of being chewed out for the times where I wasn't with certain friends.

Unfortunately, I don't like the Warcraft story quite enough to suffer through raiding in order to see how it pans out since that would be like reading a book that punches you in the mouth every page.

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

My dots crit, and warlock dots don't. Life is sweet.

Also I'm unclear on why "mcfrugal is dumb" became a discussion subject. I mean, playing it by yourself is like buying Pokemon to play the slot machines, but at the end of the day it's his purchase, and he's free to ruin it for himself as he sees fit.

He does waive all right to complain about anything in the game, though. You can't complain about how bad your hammer is when you're holding by the head and pounding in nails with the handle.

[A²]

I would like to put forth two more opinions. Both are to be treated as simple opinions of this WoW player.

Sometimes, a fantastically bad group is just as entertaining as a good group. It's a fine line, and it greatly depends on mood, but sometimes it's just hilarity incarnate when you wipe on something you've killed 50 times before guys I'm sorry my fireball crit 7 times in a row oh god the skeleton is raping me.


I have had the most fun in this game just dicking around. I have a Blacksmith's Hammer with firey on it, and a Farmer's Broom with Crusader, both done back when those enchantments were top end and extremely pricy for a nonhardcore guild. I played the Auction House like a pro and could consistently snag rare things for cheap prices. On a whim I'd sneak around IF, hide myself, and do /1 First person to find me gets [link]. And I gave it. Gave away a Staff of Jordan that way.

[Brentai]

Sometimes, a fantastically bad group is just as entertaining as a good group. It's a fine line, and it greatly depends on mood, but sometimes it's just hilarity incarnate when you wipe on something you've killed 50 times before guys I'm sorry my fireball crit 7 times in a row oh god the skeleton is raping me.

While I can't say about high-level WoW, I will say that one of my greatest joys in team FPSes is pulling a terrible team through to victory through sheer grit (and sometimes Incredible Medic Skillzzz).  I would assume the same would hold true for WoW if not for the fact that the game is designed to make one weak link break the whole chain.

What I'm saying is that you guys should all give up and play FPSes instead.  I assure you your blood level would go down.

[A²]

One terrible player in a standard 5 man brings the whole shit down.

Ironically, the larger the group is, the less the shitty playing of one or two players matter. If You have 25, and one of the mages is an Arcane/Fire derpnuts who can't stagger his aggro, as long as your tank is worth his salt, it's not a huge deal. Granted, after the 4th time he fucks it up, the group will fire him into the sun and get someone else, but it doesn't mean the whole shit gets wiped - it makes it harder, yes, but not unmanagable.

But on a 5man, if your Paladin and Rogue get into a bitchfit, and the Paladin tanks, and then bubblehearths on the first boss because he is a goddamn fucking dickweed, then yes, you're screwed.

True story. The Paladin later said he felt too offended tobe with the Rogue, so he fucked all of us over. His guild master called me a liar, so I spent the next few weeks basically trolling the hell out of the guild and being a general dick each time I saw any of them try and do anything, ever. It worked, for the most part. People asked why, I told the tale, and no one would group or buy from them

[Brentai]

I do miss completely obliterating the PR of any guild that ever looked at me funny, yeah.

[sei]

One terrible player in a standard 5 man brings the whole shit down.

Ironically, the larger the group is, the less the shitty playing of one or two players matter. If You have 25, and one of the mages is an Arcane/Fire derpnuts who can't stagger his aggro, as long as your tank is worth his salt, it's not a huge deal. Granted, after the 4th time he fucks it up, the group will fire him into the sun and get someone else, but it doesn't mean the whole shit gets wiped - it makes it harder, yes, but not unmanagable.

But on a 5man, if your Paladin and Rogue get into a bitchfit, and the Paladin tanks, and then bubblehearths on the first boss because he is a goddamn fucking dickweed, then yes, you're screwed.

True story. The Paladin later said he felt too offended tobe with the Rogue, so he fucked all of us over. His guild master called me a liar, so I spent the next few weeks basically trolling the hell out of the guild and being a general dick each time I saw any of them try and do anything, ever. It worked, for the most part. People asked why, I told the tale, and no one would group or buy from them

hay guys i no ur busy w luficrons but check out the little men i found in this cave

[Pacobird]

Sometimes, a fantastically bad group is just as entertaining as a good group. It's a fine line, and it greatly depends on mood, but sometimes it's just hilarity incarnate when you wipe on something you've killed 50 times before guys I'm sorry my fireball crit 7 times in a row oh god the skeleton is raping me.

While I can't say about high-level WoW, I will say that one of my greatest joys in team FPSes is pulling a terrible team through to victory through sheer grit (and sometimes Incredible Medic Skillzzz).  I would assume the same would hold true for WoW if not for the fact that the game is designed to make one weak link break the whole chain.

What I'm saying is that you guys should all give up and play FPSes instead.  I assure you your blood level would go down.

This is the great joy of pick-up group tanking that is sadly gone now the Protection is incredibly easy.

"Do you have heals on your hotbar?  Okay.  LETS GO!"

My dots crit, and warlock dots don't. Life is sweet.

Also I'm unclear on why "mcfrugal is dumb" became a discussion subject. I mean, playing it by yourself is like buying Pokemon to play the slot machines, but at the end of the day it's his purchase, and he's free to ruin it for himself as he sees fit.

He does waive all right to complain about anything in the game, though. You can't complain about how bad your hammer is when you're holding by the head and pounding in nails with the handle.

Doom put it well earlier: it's the self-righteousness and sense of entitlement that's provoked the actual MMO players.  Norondor has just as bad gear on his dudes but you'll find from his responses that he understands what he has to do to gear up and doesn't think it's worth it.  I can't fault that.

[Pacobird]

Old timer joke for those of us who were. To listen to you complain about honor grinding and instancing now is hilarious to those of us who saw people spend literal months showing the Cenarion Expedition how much they wanted some epics.

We don't talk about it.