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Author Topic: Wrath of the Lich King  (Read 239922 times)

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Pacobird

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #380 on: November 06, 2008, 09:02:55 AM »

In fairness, at the appropriate gear level Karazhan is the longest instance in the game after Naxxramas.  I'd say it was too long, but am hesitant to do so because it represented the end of the PvE game for a lot of people who were for whatever reason unable to do 25-mans.
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King Klown

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #381 on: November 06, 2008, 10:22:50 AM »

40-man raids were designed with the intention of taking more than one raid session to complete though.

Karazhan was sort of like that at first, sometimes taking two or three trips to complete it when it first came out.

Gruul was so god damn hard Pre-any nerfs.
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Pacobird

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #382 on: November 06, 2008, 10:44:25 AM »

Right.  Karazhan is not and was never intended to be a one-night clear, any more than any of the 40-man stuff that was eventually brought down to 2-hour farming runs through comic levels of overgearing.
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Doom

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #383 on: November 06, 2008, 10:49:38 AM »

A slow day today. Revered with Skyguard, finally got the damn Blades Edge Bomberman Achievement and lost three short-bus Eye of the Storms with the only pearl in the mountain of shit being the Take A Chill Pill achievement.

About 368/375 in Engineering. Hired a friend to mine ore/smelt bars and buying out the AH whenever I finish a fresh batch of dailies. Zzzzz.

Finished the Nightbane Chain this week, got the quest to kill Prince for next week. Sitting at around 11.5k Violet Eye rep and getting 3,250 from the Prince Kill Quest...

I'm cuttin' it close... but I believe in Violet Eye Exalted two days before Wrath launches.
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McFrugal

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #384 on: November 06, 2008, 04:59:19 PM »

1.6 speed is bad

Whirlwind didn't hit with both weapons when I first made the swords, so weapon-based instant attacks weren't important for a Fury warrior.  In fact, fast weapons make Heroic Strike and Cleave more rage-efficient, and Bloodthirst more reliably heal you to its full amount.  Now, however, it would be a bad choice even before getting Titan's Grip.  Whirlwind is just that good.

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It is a rational interpretation of your statements.

How does "I play solo, mostly" translate to "How dare Blizzard require me to group"?  It certainly doesn't make any sense to me.  You're not even required to do dungeons to get geared for level 70 PvP.

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Qualifying your statements as opinion doesn't make them defensible and it certainly doesn't earn you the right to defend them on your own terms.  If you are not saying you reject the paradigm of expecting you to group then why are you complaining about the gear curve? 

First off, if a statement is an opinion, it can't be defended or attacked without addressing the facts behind that opinion.  Second, you're insinuating that the "gear curve" is directly related to grouping, when I've said like 5 times already that gear inflation is directly related to the Arena.  It can be both, of course, which means you can't claim I won't get gear without grouping.  I'll get it through PvP.

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The rest of my post is blasting you for being a whiny bitch.

What?  Here's the rest of your post, minus the crap about me having plenty of time to update my twohanders, and also minus quotes for brevity:

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It's almost like you rolled a tank class, and that classes that can't spec to do anything other than DPS are going to be better general, all-purpose choices to do so!

-

My Warlock had 150 resilience the day he hit 70.  I know people who, granted, played obsessively, but got kitted in full honor epics (season 2) after a weekend.  You can do it casually in a month, easily.  It just needs to be your focus.

Having goals and a plan to achieve them is the first step to success.  What the hell have you been doing with yourself?  Standing on the Org bank?

-

It's almost like Arena gear is really fucking easy to get.  Crazy, I know.

Like I said, you tell me that other DPS classes are more versatile, and that I should plan for success.  Oh also you tell me that it's easy to get Arena gear.  If by "easy" you mean "takes nothing but time" then I agree.  Of course, you could also be saying it doesn't take much time.  On that point we would disagree on what "easy" means in time terms, or how many hours per week is "casually" playing.  That would mean we were arguing about something subjective.

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I know you don't play the game that much.  That's fine, as I've said repeatedly.

You have never said this.  In fact, what you've said could be interpreted in the opposite manner.  Instances can take up to two hours to complete in TBC.  Or at least, they did two months ago.

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However, if you knowingly choose to play the game wrong, it is the height of arrogance and entitlement to think that you should be rewarded in the same way as people who put in the time.  We are all on equal footing, and if I may say so, Blizzard has completely eviscerated what was at one point a reasonably challenging game to accommodate you.  The least you could do is acknowledge that Arena, the one aspect of the game that actually maintains decent competition and challenge, is probably not designed with players like you in mind.

Did I ever say I wanted to be as powerful as the people wearing Arena gear?  No, I did not.  I said that there's too many people wearing it.  It is, however, the height of arrogance to keep telling me I'm playing the game wrong, when it's a FUCKING GAME.  What goals I decide to accomplish are my business, and you can just keep that elitist attitude to yourself.

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Tensard got 500 healing and learned to be a resto champ in two weeks.  We already know why you don't have gear.

Okay, now here's where you go ahead and berate me again for not playing enough... in the same post where you say it's fine that I'm not playing enough.

I've had enough of this.  There are three possibilities I can see here.  You're a hypocrite, an idiot, or our disagreement is based upon subjective terms.  I don't want to continue if any of these three things are true.


Oh, and Doom, you misinterpreted me again.

I ran Ramparts more than once, as I said "a few times".  Each run we wiped on a double pull before the stairs.  At least once it was due to not being able to see the pat coming, or having it aggro in the middle of a fight from around a corner.  The casters in the mob groups exacerbated this problem- they would stay where they were and pulling them away from the patrol route was risky without ranged silence effects.  I believe at least once someone pulled a second group while trying to get a caster out of the way of the pat, which also joined the beatdown party.  LoS pulling works best of course but the corners are in terrible places while the walls are pretty much free of obstacles, and even if you pull a group around a corner the pats can still aggro on the caster.  I think the first half of the instance is planned out to restrict information to the player as much as possible, or at least to encourage a tedious pulling frequency.  It might be that way because the actual instance is so tiny.  They wanted to make sure it took more than half an hour to complete.

It's good to know that Mana Crypts isn't actually as bad as I thought.  I do feel kinda bad about missing out on the Burning Crusade dungeons, if they aren't as frustrating as Ramparts.  I can't really give an opinion on Blood Furnace since I ran it with an overleveled party.  The Creator was pretty entertaining even so.

Oh, also there are dungeons in classic WoW that I did.  Fairly often, too.  Bad groups could be frustrating, but I didn't object to the design of the instances.  I probably should've given "I hated Ramparts and expect I would hate the others in TBC" as my reason for not doing dungeons, instead of the whole not liking grouping that much.  The only excuse I can give for such failure to interpret my own feelings is that I stopped thinking about doing dungeons once I got to 70, since the only content I felt I would need better gear for was more dungeons.  So it's been a while since my thoughts went past that initial feeling of dread when making that decision.  How long has it been... about a year?

Anyway, I ran Gnomer, Uldaman, BFD, ST, RFC, Stockades, Scarlet Cathedral, Scarlet Library, Stratholme, Deadmines, ZF, and Mara multiple times.  I also did Scarlet Graveyard, Scholo, WC, and SFK once, and some bits of Dire Maul.  Never did a full clear of ST, unfortunately.
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Doom

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #385 on: November 06, 2008, 05:18:34 PM »

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Hellfire Ramparts

No seriously, Ramparts is very easy to dissect and pull apart.

I'm not even being rude here! It is the 100% truth that the stuff wiping you in Ramparts is easily avoidable. I could write you a guide myself to every pull.

I was referring to Auchenai Crypts. Mana Tombs has no ghost patrols. Auchenai Crypts has randomly spawning neutral ghost patrols that will add to groups if you AoE badly.

Later on, Shadow Labyrinths and Shattered Halls(And to a lesser extent Blood Furnace) have Rogue-type mobs that stealth. The SL ones are weird and are either on very wonky patrols or timers. It can be a frustrating wipe, but otherwise it's all terribly simple to get used to.

And for convenience, if you are feeling saucy before Wrath hits next week..

(These can apply to Heroics for the most part.)
Ramparts - Easy, short, tough last boss.
Blood Furnace - Easy, long, some irritating mobs, piss easy last boss.
Shattered Halls - Tough BUT fun, mid-length. Is actually very short and more fun if over-geared.

Slave Pens - Easy, mid-length, requires Crowd-Control knowledge and DPS priority. Mobs that fear and mind control, bosses that ask the healer and DPS to wake up.
Underbog - Mid-length, should be easy but can be hard(particularly Murkblood/Naga pulls), interesting and forgiving bosses. Difficulty spikes drastically if you are under-geared for the heroic.
Steam Vaults - Short and sweet assuming group competence and that you don't try to skip the water elemental pats you dumbass we wiped the last two times why would this time be any different.

Auchenai Crypts - Tough, very short, easy bosses, requires competence. May have been nerfed, some of the classic wipe pulls seem to be missing or smaller.
Mana-Tombs - Long, boring, god-awful escort quest, last boss requires thought, plenty of horrible pull/pat combos.
Shadow Labryinth - Long, boring, requires thought and coordination, room before Blackheart takes no less than ten years to clear, long, boring, hall before Murmur is long and boring. Long and boring.

Durnholde - Fun, short, easy, forgiving. Remove everything but the "Short" for the Heroic Version, though it's much better with 3.0
Black Morass - Interesting(the first time), long as fuck, easy as hell. Almost no difference between Heroic and Non unless your gear is atrocious.

Botanica - Long but easy. Interesting.
Mechanar - Short but tougher. Every boss requires competence and thought. Once you get it down though, definitely the easiest starter Heroic. First boss is pretty fun.
Arcatraz - Good God. Long, boring, tricky mobs, pain in the ass long final boss gauntlet that resets if you wipe. Long, boring, somehow worse than Shadow Labs, Jesus Christ What The Hell.
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Rico

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #386 on: November 06, 2008, 06:23:02 PM »

It is, however, the height of arrogance to keep telling me I'm playing the game wrong, when it's a FUCKING GAME.  What goals I decide to accomplish are my business, and you can just keep that elitist attitude to yourself.

Uh, dude, he's telling you you're playing the game wrong because you're doing the wrong things to accomplish your goals, not because you're not allowed to pick which goals you want to accomplish.
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Norondor

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #387 on: November 06, 2008, 07:21:15 PM »

Mana-Tombs - Long, boring, god-awful escort quest, last boss requires thought, plenty of horrible pull/pat combos.

Of note to melee DPSers; no mob in here has any armor. any. they have no physical damage reduction to speak of at all. OH GOD MY MORTAL STRIKES ARE SO HUGE
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Pacobird

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #388 on: November 06, 2008, 08:06:12 PM »

I will never get tired of this.

1.6 speed is bad

Whirlwind didn't hit with both weapons when I first made the swords, so weapon-based instant attacks weren't important for a Fury warrior. 

No.  This is not an art school project and you aren't getting points for creativity.  There is a right way and wrong way to play this game.  a 2.6 speed 71 dps blue from any level 70 instance or the blue PvP set was more DPS than Blazeguard even before Whirlwind hit with both weapons, and you didn't make both weapons before that change because you would have needed still-BoP Primal Nethers from the Heroics you don't run.

You are doing it wrong.

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How does "I play solo, mostly, but I am really indignant about the fact that everybody has better gear than me and I get smashed accordingly" translate to "How dare Blizzard require me to group"? 

Pretty easily, I think.

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First off, if a statement is an opinion, it can't be defended or attacked without addressing the facts behind that opinion.

Sure it can, because some opinions are built on fundamentally incorrect understandings of reality and deserve nothing but scorn.  But that is neither here nor there.

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Second, you're insinuating that the "gear curve" is directly related to grouping,

I am doing no such thing.  Did you just miss the part where I basically say the fact that you can solo BGs for competitive gear as the singe biggest improvement of BC over Classic?

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when I've said like 5 times already that gear inflation is directly related to the Arena.  It can be both, of course, which means you can't claim I won't get gear without grouping.  I'll get it through PvP.

You will get gear faster through grouping (Hint: sometimes people group up for PvP, too!) and since playtime is apparently a concern for you, you would find your playtime much more productive and enjoyable with groups if it weren't for that pesky Social Anxiety Disorder. 

But more importantly, if you see a path before you that accomodates your chosen playstyle, then what are you upset about?

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Like I said, you tell me that other DPS classes are more versatile, and that I should plan for success.  Oh also you tell me that it's easy to get Arena gear.  If by "easy" you mean "takes nothing but time" then I agree.  Of course, you could also be saying it doesn't take much time.  On that point we would disagree on what "easy" means in time terms, or how many hours per week is "casually" playing.  That would mean we were arguing about something subjective.

First of all, Season 2 gear (you know, the stuff you get from Battlegrounds) IS Arena gear.  But yes, that really is just me blasting you for being a whiny bitch.


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You have never said this.  In fact, what you've said could be interpreted in the opposite manner.  Instances can take up to two hours to complete in TBC.  Or at least, they did two months ago.

hahaha what

2 hours

jesus learn to play

ANYWAY

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You only feel they aren't relevant because you are unwilling to admit that your attitude about the game is your single greatest handicap in succeeding at it.  Which is fine, really.  Just stop being such a fucking baby about it.
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Doom put it well earlier: it's the self-righteousness and sense of entitlement that's provoked the actual MMO players.  Norondor has just as bad gear on his dudes but you'll find from his responses that he understands what he has to do to gear up and doesn't think it's worth it.  I can't fault that.

For the record,

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Yeah, man; where the hell does WoW get off requiring you to be social and work together with people in order to complete your goals?  Video games are supposed to encourage you to become someone even your own mother finds insufferable!

was responding to

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Oh, I play the game.  It's just that mostly, I play solo.  I can't depend on other people, and in fact don't even feel comfortable playing with people I don't know, so I don't.

because you are an aspie and really (like, REALLY really; I am being dead serious here), if running around pretend dungeons with xxDRIZZTxx and Bladehelm Thunderfaggot in a video game gives you a crippling sense of anxiety, you need to set sail on the s.s. zanax like yesterday.



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Did I ever say I wanted to be as powerful as the people wearing Arena gear?  No, I did not.  I said that there's too many people wearing it

IT'S FUCKING BATTLEGROUND GEAR.  AVAILABLE FROM BATTLEGROUNDS.  THAT PEOPLE GRIND.  SOLO.

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It is, however, the height of arrogance to keep telling me I'm playing the game wrong, when it's a FUCKING GAME.  What goals I decide to accomplish are my business, and you can just keep that elitist attitude to yourself.

Fucking jackpot. 



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Okay, now here's where you go ahead and berate me again for not playing enough... in the same post where you say it's fine that I'm not playing enough.

Dude, I could care less how much you choose to play.  Just don't expect gear for not playing right.

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I've had enough of this.  There are three possibilities I can see here.  You're a hypocrite, an idiot, or our disagreement is based upon subjective terms.  I don't want to continue if any of these three things are true.

Or you could stop crying and flailing for five fucking seconds and tell me what exactly it is that you WANT out of this game.

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Doom

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #389 on: November 06, 2008, 08:57:41 PM »

An auction house simulation, perhaps.
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Norondor

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #390 on: November 06, 2008, 09:08:05 PM »

more banks to dance on top of
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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #391 on: November 06, 2008, 09:16:23 PM »

Level 1 Banks, naked they dance, clark kents of Azeroth.
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Brentai

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #392 on: November 06, 2008, 09:17:52 PM »

That's not a haiku by any stretch!
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Doom

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #393 on: November 07, 2008, 10:00:57 AM »

Five Exalted Reputations! Exalted with Cenarion Expedition!

375 Engineering! Made my Turbo-Copter!



I'm off to make trouble for the establishment! You know.. Exalt with Sporegar, buy the Gigantique Sack, a Hippogryph and my Shattered Sun title. All that noise.

While grabbing this screenshot I also happened across legal evidence that I am the greatest mage in the world.

Also a reminder that sometimes I will miss AF.

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Royal☭

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #394 on: November 07, 2008, 11:29:19 AM »

Hey, does the Mechano-Copter require Engineering to use, or is it just straight up Bind on Pickup?

Doom

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #395 on: November 07, 2008, 11:30:22 AM »

Requires Engineering to use.

In theory, you could learn them as any other mount and never ride them just for the "Get 50 Mounts" achievement.

In theory, you could also be a horrible monster.
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Büge

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #396 on: November 07, 2008, 11:36:50 AM »

Made my Deff-Kopta!


I didn't know that you could make those things in WoW, and now I desperately want one.
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Norondor

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #397 on: November 07, 2008, 12:05:54 PM »

The nosecone spins, and if you idle in them they will occasionally stall, crash to the ground,  and kill you.

 ::D:

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Bal

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #398 on: November 07, 2008, 12:07:15 PM »

The nosecone spins, and if you idle in them they will occasionally stall, crash to the ground,  and kill you.

 ::D:



Must. Not. Re. Up.
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Norondor

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Re: Wrath of the Lich King
« Reply #399 on: November 07, 2008, 12:08:37 PM »

Blizzard has always done engineering, particularly Goblin, right -- not in that it's a useful crafting profession, but that it's ORKY.
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