Topic: Wrath of the Lich King (Read 239893 times)

Norondor · « **Reply #4600 on:** January 23, 2010, 03:59:50 PM »

Does WAR even HAVE PVE?

Crouton · « **Reply #4601 on:** January 23, 2010, 04:33:42 PM »

PvE in WAR wasn't worth doing in the face of RvR (which gave you better, faster EVERYTHING). Low pop servers probably benefited from it though, and public quests were kind of nifty.

Bal · « **Reply #4602 on:** January 23, 2010, 06:51:23 PM »

All the fucking weapon upgrades were in the PVE instance of WAR. Surprisingly though, those were actually all very good after a little bit of early tweaking.

Unfortunately, everyone who plays WAR hates PVE.

A² · « **Reply #4603 on:** January 23, 2010, 06:59:19 PM »

Quote from: Lypoie on December 31, 2009, 10:34:03 PM

People in ICC Raids letting their RP Personas and desires dictate how they do things = comedy.

Mage INSISTED on Dalaran Brilliance. Would reapply it the instant someone else did Arcane Brilliance. Even during the middle of Marrowgar.

Black Temple with this person.

82 Arcane Powders later, they gave up.

I got a friend in on the action and had them PM them after the raid ended saying that 'I had a bet going that you'd do it each time! You just lost me 50g!'

They said that they raged the perfect rage of an idiot.

sei · « **Reply #4604 on:** January 23, 2010, 08:10:05 PM »

Quote from: P. Birdy on January 23, 2010, 08:03:52 AM

NOBODY IS GOING TO BE WEARING BLOCK GEAR FOR MEANINGFUL CONTENT ARE YOU READING ONE FUCKING WORD I AM TYPING

Anub-25-hard isn't meaningful any more?

Pacobird · « **Reply #4605 on:** January 24, 2010, 07:06:13 AM »

Gimmick fight is gimmicky?

Shinra · « **Reply #4606 on:** January 24, 2010, 09:57:20 AM »

Not every fight requires you to gear fully for avoidance and damage reduction, just like not every fight requires you to spec that way (and, as a matter of fact, most don't.)

I'd totally buy the 'no tank is going to wear block value gear' argument if every fight in icecrown was a tank gear check, but from what i've seen most aren't and the extra block value (used to) helps with dps. Prior to this nerf I saw a pretty in depth discussion on Tankspot whether or not t10 was even worth wearing past 2pc due to the lack of block value, and the summary of the conversation was, as I recall, "Yes, but only on bosses that do lots of tank damage".

sei · « **Reply #4607 on:** January 24, 2010, 12:01:46 PM »

Counting on your tanks' DPS for beating enrage timers means you're already fucked.

Rico · « **Reply #4608 on:** January 24, 2010, 02:20:19 PM »

And furthermore, if you're not gearing and speccing for maximum possible mitigation and avoidance while keeping adequate threat, you are doing your guild a large disservice on progression-level content.

A² · « **Reply #4609 on:** January 25, 2010, 06:27:45 PM »

tl;dr version: Most (if not all) bosses in heroics that did their gimmick 3 times now do it once. STR Ring for the Ashen Verdict.

Dungeon and Raid
Icecrown Citadel

* The Scourge and the Lich King's last hold, Frostwing Hall will be added to the game. However, in order to enter the wing, the Ashen Verdict must shatter the barrier first.

Halls of Stone

* Since Brann Bronzebeard exercised constantly, he will walk faster during the escort.

Forge of Souls

* Devourer of Souls will cast Mirrored Soul less frequently.
* Trash mobs Spell Reflect abilities have been changed. It now has a cast time, 2 charges, and chance to reflect reduced to 75% from 100%

Nexus

* Anomalus casts Create Rift only once now. (Down from 3)

Ahn’Kahet: Old Kingdom

* Elder Nadox’s now spawns only one Ahn’kahar Guardian.
* Jedoga Shadowseeker air phase now only happens once.
* Some monsters between Jedoga Shadowseeker and Herad Volazj have been removed.

Pit of Saron

* Dead players are now able to enter the dungeon during Krick and Ick or Forgemaster Garfrost encounter.

Utgarde Pinnacle

* Players only need 3 harpoons to bring down Skadi’s drake during the encounter. (Down from 5)
* Svala Sorrowgrave now casts Rituals of Sword only once. (Down from 3)

Vault of Archavon

* Toravon the Icewatcher has been added to the Vault of Archavon. He awaits your challenge in both 10 and 25 man difficulty

Violet Hold

* New portals will open faster after players defeat bosses

Arena

* With brand new rewards, Season 8 is officially starting!

Druid (Forums / Talent Calculator)
Balance

* Earth and Moon: This talent now increases your spell damage by 2/4/6% (Up from 1/2/3%)

Shaman (Forums / Talent Calculator)
Elemental

* Shamanism: This talent now increases your Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning spell damage by 4/8/12/16/20% (Up from 3/6/9/12/15%) and Lava Burst spell damage by 5/10/15/20/25% (Up from 4/8/12/16/20%)

Warlock (Forums / Talent Calculator)
Affliction

* Shadow Embrace: Now stacks 3 times (Up from 2) Healing reduction effect reduced to 2/4/8/10% (Down from 3/6/9/12/15%)

Demonology

* Demonic Pact: This talent now increases your spell damage by 2/4/6/8/10% (Up from 1/2/3/4/5%). The buff effect to the party or raid members is unchanged.

Destruction

* Conflagrate: Periodic Spell damage increased to 40% (Up from 20%)
* Empowered Imp: Damage done by imp increased to 10/20/30% (Up from 5/10/15%)
* Improved Shadow Bolt: Now increases Shadow Bolt damage 2/4/6/8/10% (Up from 1/2/3/4/5%)

Warrior (Forums / Talent Calculator)
Protection

* Concussion Blow : Damage is decreased by 50%, but threat generated by this ability remains still.
* Devastate: Damage is increased to 120% (Up from 100%)
* Shield Slam: Damage increment from block value decreased, and starts to decrease from lower block value. If your gear is almost High-end, players won’t really recognize the change. In addition, threat generated by Shield Slam is increased by 30%
* Warbringer: This talent no longer allows Charge and Intercept to break roots or snares. Intervene remains unaffected.

Player Interface

* Party leader created by Dungeon finder is now called “Pathfinder” (ex. I have no idea what is really gonna be called on EU or US client)
* Promoted players in raid now able to do Ready Check

Item

* Ashen Verdict Faction Ring now offers new ring to Strength dominant classes.
* Tier 10 Elemental Shaman set 4-pieces effect (redesigned): Whenever Lava burst successfully casted on the target, it increases Flame Shock duration by 6 sec

Shinra · « **Reply #4610 on:** January 25, 2010, 06:31:58 PM »

I would love to see some theorycraft on how much the devastate change improves warrior dps/threat.

Doom · « **Reply #4611 on:** January 25, 2010, 10:10:43 PM »

Rough guesstimate is a few hundred points + revenge dropped entirely from use.

Also score one for cynics: out of the blue nerf for Concussive Blow, "improving Warrior threat/DPS" is a percentage boost to a single ability. Not that Devastate being better is ever a bad thing, but I guess it'll take Cataclysm to get a change more meaningful than a numeric digit being nudged.

Hraedon · « **Reply #4612 on:** January 25, 2010, 11:26:14 PM »

Ironically, the devastate change makes it about 100% likely that prot warriors will once again be on the chopping block, and soon. A buff that does almost nothing for pve while significantly buffing a staple of prot pvp damage? Pro, guys.

Revenge was already unused if you glyphed devastate and were in an unlimited rage situation, so

Shinra · « **Reply #4613 on:** January 26, 2010, 01:57:51 AM »

I think a good way to help fix the problem would be to add a large amount of passive haste to a deep prot talent. It would increase white damage and allow alternative weapon choices to the fast one handers we're using now, and those two problems seem to be the crux of why our DPS is always so low. Paladins are doing nonstop unresistable damage, death knights are spamming 2h DPS abilities to tank with and druids tank in DPS gear with like 8k+ atp, so giving warriors a huge amount of haste to their melee attacks wouldn't be that gamebreaking, would it? They could tack it onto Sword and Board, maybe a self buff after shield blocking or devastating? Alternatively, they could do the paladin thing and have 30% of stamina convert into Haste.

Cthulhu-chan · « **Reply #4614 on:** January 26, 2010, 02:00:44 AM »

Sounds more like the prot tree just needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. It took how many rebuilds to make paladins not suck? Or bear tanks, for that matter, hell, druids in general.

Shinra · « **Reply #4615 on:** January 26, 2010, 02:07:07 AM »

To be fair, Paladins and Bear tanks weren't taken seriously as tanks until TBC, and in TBC both were viable right out of the gate (though Paladins had some effective health problems on a few bosses in SSC and in late BT.) - As a matter of fact, bear tanks were so good they had to be nerfed two or three times before anyone would use warriors again.

Having said that, it's not really the tree itself - by all rights, the prot tree SHOULD be doing a lot of DPS. There's a lot of instant damage attacks, there's a lot of abilities that crit often for decent damage, and the damage production resource (rage) is virtually unlimited in most scenarios - the problem is that we're stuck using really fast weapons to do competitive threat. Shield Slam was a big, hard hitting ability that wasn't based on weapon damage so it was an important part of our dps - that's why this nerf hurts and was so goddamn unnecessary.

The best solution to this problem is to find a way to make it so warriors can do competitive threat with a slower weapon. Another solution here would be a heroic strike replacement ability in deep prot that does more threat based on weapon damage or something. It's not like Paladins have any reason to use fast one handers, and DW DK tanks prefer slow mainhands for threat, so it's not like they couldn't just go back, change all the tanking weapons to 2.8 speed and call it a day.

I think what it really boils down to is every other tanking class but us has some gimmick that increases their DPS, be it unresistable holy damage, high damage diseases + weapon strikes, or huge ridiculous amounts of attack power and unresistable bleeds. I think we need a gimmick like that to be able to compete.

Pacobird · « **Reply #4616 on:** January 26, 2010, 05:12:25 AM »

If only they did something like give Shield Slam an innate 30% threat bonus on top of its previous threat and more than double the strength of Devastate in the past 6 months. That would certainly incentivize the use of slow weapons!

What I don't think you're understanding here is that if the SS damage DRs still don't kick in until 2 grand, this is a substantial threat buff for the SSs of every raiding prot warrior on the planet. Since added threat was the only reason to use a fast weapon and spam heroic strike anyway, ESPECIALLY in sub-cutting-edge content, and Heroic Strike has, furthermore, been acknowledged as a problem child that can't be addressed in the short term because Fury mechanics are currently built around it but is basically top on the list for 4.0, I'm not really sure what more you're asking for here. Slow weapons are already superior in multi-target situations and have been for a long time; it is the stubbornness of the warrior community that is causing the cognitive dissonance here, not Blizzard.

PS Bear tanks were fine in Naxx. It's just that getting crit capped was hard for them.

Shinra · « **Reply #4617 on:** January 26, 2010, 05:47:59 AM »

Bear tanks were capped from talents alone in Wrath. I'm confused?

Edit: OH you meant classic Naxx. Ha haa.

Cthulhu-chan · « **Reply #4618 on:** January 26, 2010, 06:40:43 AM »

Well, the problem with the one handers are that dw DKs sorta need slow dps weapons to keep up threat, where everyone else (even bears?) use fast tanking weapons. Are there any tank one handers over a 2 sec swing timer?

Pacobird · « **Reply #4619 on:** January 26, 2010, 06:47:38 AM »

No, because nobody cared about tank damage before zomg paladins. I sort of see DW tanking as a trap for the unwary, anyway, but I am open to someone disavowing me of this notion.

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Author Topic: Wrath of the Lich King (Read 239893 times)