Topic: Wrath of the Lich King (Read 239898 times)

Pacobird · « **Reply #4640 on:** January 27, 2010, 12:30:26 PM »

It has been my experience that the bump need not be that large at all to bring Prot in line with at the very least DKs.

My position on the larger issue of tank DPS is that Prot Paladins unfairly skew the numbers.

Shinra · « **Reply #4641 on:** January 27, 2010, 12:42:28 PM »

I can definately get behind that sentiment. Who knew that doing 90% of your damage as irresistable unmitigated holy damage would make you do a lot of dps?

Norondor · « **Reply #4642 on:** January 27, 2010, 01:51:37 PM »

Quote from: Shinra on January 26, 2010, 02:07:07 AM

It's not like Paladins have any reason to use fast one handers

No weapon-based attacks? HoRight uses weapon DPS stat and not damage per swing? All seals cause flat damage every swing, increased by spelldamage? ???????????????????????

Pacobird · « **Reply #4643 on:** January 27, 2010, 05:28:20 PM »

Mainhand DPS would be a better way to solve the Devastate problem, yes.

Shinra · « **Reply #4644 on:** January 27, 2010, 06:10:45 PM »

Quote from: Norondor on January 27, 2010, 01:51:37 PM

Quote from: Shinra on January 26, 2010, 02:07:07 AM
It's not like Paladins have any reason to use fast one handers

No weapon-based attacks? HoRight uses weapon DPS stat and not damage per swing? All seals cause flat damage every swing, increased by spelldamage? ???????????????????????

does seal damage not scale based on weapon speed anymore?

Norondor · « **Reply #4645 on:** January 28, 2010, 02:44:51 AM »

not afaik. possible i am a retarded. further study necessary.

Shinra · « **Reply #4646 on:** January 28, 2010, 04:15:08 AM »

MWS refers to melee weapon speed.

Seal of Vengeance was PPM during the TBC days but now the main damage component does 33% of your weapon damage as holy on every swing - which is going to do roughly the same damage overall regardless of slow or fast over the same period of time, and slow weapons tend to benefit more from haste effects (heroism/bloodlust, etc) so if anything the slow weapon would be better.

Paladins were designed from the ground up to be fine with any speed weapon - if there is a difference at all between weapon speeds and how much threat you generate, it's minor at best. Slow is spikier, fast is steadier, but in the end the overall TPS should be roughly the same. Back in TBC, you'd actually want a slow weapon because the PPM effect on SOV was more reliable, but they fixed SOV to make it less terrible so lol. SoR's judgement also used to do more damage with slower weapons.

It'd be nice if they'd just go back and change heroic strike's threat component to be based off weapon speed, so we could get away from this fast weapons + lots of instant attacks gameplay thing we've got going on here.

Doom · « **Reply #4647 on:** January 28, 2010, 09:40:13 AM »

I always thought it was kind of disgusting that they applied what should be a blindingly obvious Heroic Strike fix to Seal of Command.

Also I must confess that the above conversation has been slightly confusing because slow weapons don't have mitigation stats? Unless you are using a 213 Broken Promise I guess!

Shinra · « **Reply #4648 on:** January 28, 2010, 10:05:59 AM »

Most tanking weapons only add about 2-3% total avoidance, and that's before diminishing returns.

Bloodvenom Blade, from 25m Saurfang has around 1% avoidance and roughly the same amount of stamina you find on other pieces of gear for that slot, with the added advantage of having higher top end damage which translates to more DPS and threat generated from Devastate. The problem is that Heroic Strike is an on-next ability, which means that faster weapons are going to get the threat and heroic strike's damage contribution to a greater degree. This is why Heroic Strike needs to be normalized across weapon speeds like Blizzard has done with the paladin abilities.

A² · « **Reply #4649 on:** January 29, 2010, 12:11:20 PM »

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

why is every other arcane mage i meet a gigantic dickwad. Arcane isn't hard, it's next to hunter in complexity.

Shinra · « **Reply #4650 on:** January 30, 2010, 06:28:44 AM »

same reason you run into tons of cat druids who suck these days - it's a really powerful, popular spec that gives amazing results in skilled hands. The result is that people who had level 80 mages/druids go dust them off, spec them Arcane/Feral+-, make them their new mains because they think they can do 8k dps in heroics like the ones they've partied with, and then proceed to suck hard.

You'll see the same effect with moonkin, since, on the alliance side anyway, that's the only spec anyone is recruiting these days - lifelong feral/resto players switch to balance, can't figure out the starfire/wrath rotation and end up not being able to break 3k dps. My father in law finally talked my wife into coming back into his guild (#2 on our server) and in BIS naxx level gear she managed to outdo cross-server applicants wearing hard mode loot. I guess gear isn't everything when your rotation requires you to think?

Pacobird · « **Reply #4651 on:** January 30, 2010, 07:54:51 AM »

Yeah, the gap in output between Rico and Angeni is staggering. Viva la Fury!

Doom · « **Reply #4652 on:** January 30, 2010, 10:32:58 AM »

How do people botch Balance and Arcane? They're like, 3 button priority rotations.

Now Feral.. Feral is Hell.

Rico · « **Reply #4653 on:** January 30, 2010, 12:48:42 PM »

Well, there's two bits to botching Balance/Arcane. The first is to do shit like cast Moonfire in a heroic where it won't even tick before the thing dies (Or do anything besides Flamestrike-Blizzard-spam drink button).

In raids, there's a lot of little things that can add up to some pretty remarkable differences, mostly to do with DoT management:
Clipping DoT ticks, or poor DoT management costing you excessive Eclipsed nuke time (it's getting to the point where triple-extended Moonfire is still almost a DPS loss). Refreshing your DoTs if there's a timed movement phase soon; not refreshing your DoTs during movement even if it clips ticks. Not predictively casting Starfire during non-Eclipsed periods (During Wrath spam, if you see a Nature's Grace proc, immediately Starfire once just in case....).

Feral is relatively tricky but most of the complexity comes from trying to Ferocious Bite, and the DPS difference between doing it perfectly and ignoring it is like a hundred DPS last I checked and the penalty for fucking it up is huge.

Doom · « **Reply #4654 on:** February 01, 2010, 02:03:56 PM »

If you love spoilers, MMO-Champ and the internet in general have their greasy mitts on the Defeat Arthas Cinematic.

Shinra · « **Reply #4655 on:** February 01, 2010, 02:49:01 PM »

also they decided not to buff Devastate after all.

Doom · « **Reply #4656 on:** February 01, 2010, 03:17:54 PM »

Are you serious? It isn't just a forgotten line in a patch note?

If they didn't actually give Warriors anything, then.. well.. man. Way to shoot the shaggy dog.

Doom · « **Reply #4657 on:** February 01, 2010, 10:16:04 PM »

Seeing a conflicting source or two(WotLKWiki) saying it's still in. Patch and see tomorrow, I guess.

Alright on to the meat of the matter: the Lich King fight is data-mined. Just spells really, and a few odd place-holder integers, but looks like a real ball-buster with the full nine yards. Intelligent Fire, Bouncing Grobbulus Debuff From Hell, aligning beams, serious god damn spell rotations.. dude has like ten unique abilities.

A² · « **Reply #4658 on:** February 02, 2010, 11:48:22 AM »

Official Patch Notes in the patcher state the Devastate buff is still in.

A² · « **Reply #4659 on:** February 02, 2010, 11:56:21 AM »

PvP

* All healing abilities (including items such as potions) will be decreased in effectiveness by 10% when in Battlegrounds, Arenas, or Wintergrasp.

did I just miss this or is this a sudden change that was not mentioned.

News:

Author Topic: Wrath of the Lich King (Read 239898 times)