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Author Topic: Zelda Blows  (Read 39391 times)

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Smiler

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #220 on: June 13, 2010, 07:29:03 PM »

http://www.zeldainformer.com/2010/06/breaking-news-latest-zelda-wii-rumors-confirmed.php

It's not a lot of info, but now you get to hear this stuff again at E3.
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Bleck

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #221 on: June 13, 2010, 07:32:07 PM »

I really, really hope that the motion controls don't ruin this.
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blah

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #222 on: June 13, 2010, 08:08:33 PM »

Hope this is all true. Drastic changes like these will make Zelda relevant again.
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Brentai

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #223 on: June 13, 2010, 09:02:41 PM »

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Thad

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #224 on: June 14, 2010, 08:11:46 PM »

I really, really hope that the motion controls don't ruin this.

They could.  Or they could be the best thing to happen to Zelda since 1993.

I've read Miyamoto's talk about how Zelda's gotten too complicated and needs to be simplified.  Really that could mean one of two things:

  • Spend eighteen hours on tutorials and handholding instead of just six

OR
  • Spend absolutely no fucking time on tutorials at all, just give me a sword and shit to swing it at.
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Smiler

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #225 on: June 14, 2010, 08:27:30 PM »

They are adding a HERO MODE! Which will probably just be a normal mode. All it does is make the monsters have more health and get rid of the super guide thing.

The super guide isn't a tutorial, so you will probably still have those out the ass, even if you aren't playing wussy fairy mode.
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Bongo Bill

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #226 on: June 14, 2010, 09:49:27 PM »

When they said it had gotten too complex, I interpreted that to mean that there was too much extraneous bullshit that they felt they needed to explain. Too many collectibles, so that it was no longer feasible to expect the player to remember what each one does - hence telling you what every one of them is when you pick them up. Too much distance between destinations, so your sidekick keeps telling you where you're going and why. Too many stock puzzle elements that only do one thing, so that every time they show up they give a brief primer so you're not sitting there trying to remember what that particular geegaw does.

The remedy to that kind of complexity is streamlining: Just a few basic kinds of resource, with multiple uses. A re-tuning of the storyline and overworld, so that the challenge is not "where am I going" but "how do I get there." A few kinds of general puzzle element that interact in complex ways. With a reduced need for making sure the player actually knows how to play, more gameplay value can be found in demanding the player play well, which recent games have shown that Nintendo hasn't yet forgotten how to do.

I see nothing but good things coming from that perspective, provided that's what they meant by complexity. And I'm fairly confident it is; the other kind of complexity hasn't increased in half the series' length.
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blah

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #227 on: June 14, 2010, 10:18:31 PM »

When they said it had gotten too complex, I interpreted that to mean that there was too much extraneous bullshit that they felt they needed to explain. Too many collectibles, so that it was no longer feasible to expect the player to remember what each one does - hence telling you what every one of them is when you pick them up. Too much distance between destinations, so your sidekick keeps telling you where you're going and why. Too many stock puzzle elements that only do one thing, so that every time they show up they give a brief primer so you're not sitting there trying to remember what that particular geegaw does.

The remedy to that kind of complexity is streamlining: Just a few basic kinds of resource, with multiple uses. A re-tuning of the storyline and overworld, so that the challenge is not "where am I going" but "how do I get there." A few kinds of general puzzle element that interact in complex ways. With a reduced need for making sure the player actually knows how to play, more gameplay value can be found in demanding the player play well, which recent games have shown that Nintendo hasn't yet forgotten how to do.

I see nothing but good things coming from that perspective, provided that's what they meant by complexity. And I'm fairly confident it is; the other kind of complexity hasn't increased in half the series' length.
If this were any company other than Nintendo I would have said it might be time to bring another dev in to add some new ideas to the series.
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Brentai

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #228 on: June 14, 2010, 10:37:42 PM »

Zelda's entire problem is the fact that Miyamoto kind of gravitated away from it and let a man who claims to hate the first game take control.
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jsnlxndrlv

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #229 on: June 15, 2010, 12:05:59 AM »

I dunno, I kind of feel like Aonuma would have been fine if he'd been able to run things his way from the beginning, rather than being ritually indoctrinated with the WAY OF MIYAMOTO as soon as he started working on major Zelda sequels. The original Zelda, Link's Awakening (and ALttP, I guess) and Majora's Mask all represent steps in good directions, but none of them are moving in the same direction.
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Bongo Bill

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #230 on: June 15, 2010, 01:36:55 AM »

Frankly, I hate the original Zelda too. Eiji Aonuma wasn't just responsible for Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks; he was also the director of Majora's Mask, which is my favorite because of reasons that are not present in the Miyamoto-directed ones, and Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, each of which could also have been my favorite if he'd just finished the damn things.
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Bleck

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #231 on: June 15, 2010, 01:45:17 AM »

Sometimes I play the original Zelda and wonder how such a long and prolific series even spawned from it.

...no, wait. That was Final Fantasy.
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Shinra

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #232 on: June 15, 2010, 02:16:26 AM »

I think anyone who hated the original Zelda is a huge faggot. I haven't enjoyed a single 3d era zelda. Getting lost and dealing with a camera sure is fun, am i rite?

This, by the way, is why 3d castlevania will never be successful unless presented in a 2d format, like the PSP Dracula X remake.

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patito

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #233 on: June 15, 2010, 02:27:11 AM »

Original Zelda is actually a big pile of shit, getting lost and having to bomb every single square of the map sure if fun, am I rite? (This also applies to original metroid by the way, though that one still managed to be somewhat fun.)

LttP is the best implementation of Zelda I think, you actually know what you're supposed to be doing and where to go, items have more varied functions that later games, even if that one rod that made square blocks was terrible.

And on the Castlevania topic, the original series is pretty much dead. All we have now is SotN clones, which aren't the same thing, but are still fun for different reasons. 3D castlevania could be fun if they'd try to make them their own thing instead of trying to recreate SotN in 3D.
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Detonator

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #234 on: June 15, 2010, 04:50:14 AM »

Yes, 25 year old games sometimes age poorly, that doesn't mean the central themes behind them aren't solid.

Yeah, Metroid had a lot of bullshit, but the principles it was based on later spawned Super Metroid.  If someone who hated Metroid took over the series, they would have made a game like Metroid Fusion.

Now I don't know the story behind the director of Zelda saying he hated the first one.  Maybe he liked the ideas, but hated the bullshit that caused it to age poorly, or maybe he hated the ideas.  It could make a world of difference.

Even though I don't enjoy playing the original Metroid, I wouldn't say that I hate it because I appreciate the concept and ideals that weren't quite implemented to their full potential.

tl;dr, stop being stupid
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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #235 on: June 15, 2010, 05:10:28 AM »

I don't think Zelda's biggest problem is a director who hates the game so much as the fans who hate the game.  Wind Waker was one of the best since the SNES era*, with a bright, colorful world and a real focus on exploration.  But fans reacted negatively to the cel-shaded graphics and focus on exploration over combat.  So now Nintendo is focusing more on Ocarina of Time style Zelda, which is darker and more combat oriented.  Whether you enjoy the first game or not, there's a clear difference in how the post-64 Zelda games are geared towards combat and dungeons versus the pre-64 focus on exploration and puzzle solving.



*Though not without problems, such as its too large world map.

blah

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #236 on: June 15, 2010, 06:25:50 AM »

Frankly, I hate the original Zelda too. Eiji Aonuma wasn't just responsible for Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks; he was also the director of Majora's Mask, which is my favorite because of reasons that are not present in the Miyamoto-directed ones, and Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, each of which could also have been my favorite if he'd just finished the damn things.
Also Aonuma's stated goal was to make a Zelda better than Ocarina of Time. A big part of this has to do with the love fest spawned from that game. Now every Zelda has to resemble OOT, heaven forbid exploration becoming impotent or they change the graphics a bit to experiment.
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Doom

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #237 on: June 15, 2010, 06:33:26 AM »

It turns out that Ocarina of Time was a very servicable Zelda Game and a fucking terrible Best Zelda Game.
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Brentai

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #238 on: June 15, 2010, 09:45:13 AM »

So uh.

Yeah.

Time for more talk about The Legend of Zelda: Erect Penis.
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Niku

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Re: Zelda Blows
« Reply #239 on: June 15, 2010, 09:45:54 AM »

the bow looked awesome :)
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