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Author Topic: Culture Wars  (Read 78207 times)

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Büge

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #380 on: August 07, 2010, 05:34:21 PM »

I'm still not sure what liberal and conservative mean. Is it just red versus blue?

Basically yeah. The best part is that the factions invert randomly as you go from country to country.

either way, entire party is babies
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Classic

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #381 on: August 07, 2010, 06:59:09 PM »

Conservative generally means old guard... liberal generally means new guard...
And whenever there is something they both think is bad, its the policies of the other that are at fault.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #382 on: August 07, 2010, 07:15:10 PM »

Yeah, but it usually actually is the fault of those damn Conservatives.
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Thad

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #383 on: August 07, 2010, 10:06:46 PM »

The words have been corrupted in an awfully Orwellian fashion, too.  When Dole was being lambasted by his own party, Goldwater commiserated about how ridiculous it was that the two of them had come to be seen as examples of liberals within the Republican Party.

Mongrel's got the gist of the definitions, old versus new, but in practice, at least in America, the terms are practically meaningless.  There was really nothing conservative about Bush, and there's not a whole lot liberal about Obama.

"Fiscal conservatism" theoretically means laissez-faire capitalism, an unregulated free market where businesses succeed or fail without governmental intervention.  In practice, American Republicans support a system that grants corporations special rights above and beyond those of individual citizens, and support massive corporate welfare when they have power while loudly decrying it when they aren't.  Oh, and also, declaring very expensive wars with nations that are no threat to you is considered "conservative" according to the modern American definition, even though that's pretty much the farthest thing from the dictionary definition.

Meanwhile, "liberal" is effectively a dirty word that American Democrats scurry away from; they will bend over backwards to prove how not-liberal they are, because they still have not figured out that they could all line up to suck off Reagan's corpse and Republicans would still call them Leninists.  Take the healthcare bill -- it's incredibly corporate-friendly, and not government-run in the slightest, and in fact is far from what UK Conservatives would ever consider, but American "conservatives" have called it socialist and suggested it is a total governmental takeover of healthcare.

"Socially conservative," incidentally, is a euphemism for racism, sexism, and general WASPs-are-better-ism.

And, as in the fiscal arena, American Democrats flinch at the slightest hint that someone might describe them as "liberal" and back only slight reforms.  Pop on over to the Prop 8 thread for some good examples -- take Obama's ridiculous stance that gay people should have all the same rights as heterosexuals but oh yeah for some reason I oppose gay marriage, because that's politically expedient.

Basically, it's all a crock of shit and the words have lost all meaning.

I'm an unabashed liberal but acknowledge that conservatism has its place -- sadly, neither is really in evidence in our government.  What we've got is more like a corporatist system: the government is run by people who have enough money to influence politicians, and everything else is window dressing.
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Friday

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #384 on: August 07, 2010, 10:19:00 PM »

Quote
the government is run by people who have enough money to influence politicians, and everything else is window dressing.
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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #385 on: August 08, 2010, 08:54:24 PM »

I think "plutocracy" is the government sponsored (i.e. $10) term that applies here.
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Joxam

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #386 on: August 09, 2010, 02:13:58 PM »

Its sad when the government described by Burroughs in "No More Stalins, No More Hitlers" seems like an upgrade.
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TA

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Do you understand how terrifying the words “vibrating strap on” are for an asexual? That’s like saying “the holocaust” to a Jew.

Royal☭

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François

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #389 on: August 12, 2010, 08:24:44 PM »

If I was nuttier I'd troll him by writing DON'T in Canada.
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Cthulhu-chan

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #390 on: August 12, 2010, 08:41:56 PM »

DOOOO EEEEET
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Friday

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #391 on: August 12, 2010, 10:46:48 PM »

ok, so now i want to write

Kaneda


Tetsuo


Norfair
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Thad

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #392 on: August 17, 2010, 04:15:27 PM »

So, okay.  For those of you who don't read the Internet, there's this debate about whether a Muslim community center should be built two blocks away from Ground Zero.  Apparently 70% of the country believes it shouldn't be there, which, given that that's the same statistic as Arizona's support for SB-1070, leads me to believe that 70% of the US is made up of frightened xenophobes.

My favorite scene in Stranger in a Strange Land is when they're at the zoo and they see a big monkey beat up a smaller monkey and take his food, and the smaller monkey proceed to turn around and find an even smaller monkey to beat up.

To wit: Harry Reid, a Mormon, decides religious persecution isn't so bad as long as he's the one doing it.

Fuck Harry Reid.  I think at this point I honestly want him to lose to the lady who wants to eliminate income tax and the Department of Education and protect our precious bodily fluids.
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SCD

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #393 on: August 17, 2010, 04:48:42 PM »

Despite my opinions on the wogs on the far side of the pond, out here the winning combination have been Rule of Law and Equity of the Law for all parties concerned.  I would assume that these matters are held at the local level and despite all the media zoo, that's where the answer will be decided, as per local ordinances. 

If you're interested in reading a Canadian Conservative view on it (keep in mind that our conservatives practice pretty close to your democrats in the modern scale), Rex Murphy of Newfoundland doesn't talk so much about if it should be allowed or erected, but instead if approved the why not it should be approved and that what it should be.  You may not agree with it completely and if you don't, it will be likely for the opening parts and not so much the closing, but it has been better thought-out than most of the sound-byte friendly speeches and pandering on the subject I've heard to date. 
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Thad

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #394 on: August 17, 2010, 04:55:28 PM »

Despite my opinions on the wogs on the far side of the pond, out here the winning combination have been Rule of Law and Equity of the Law for all parties concerned.  I would assume that these matters are held at the local level and despite all the media zoo, that's where the answer will be decided, as per local ordinances.

Oh, it's already been decided, almost unanimously; of COURSE it's legal.  It's not about policy, any more than this "Let's repeal the Fourteenth Amendment!" bullshit is.  It's about whipping up some good old-fashioned xenophobia in an election year.
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Royal☭

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #395 on: August 17, 2010, 05:43:23 PM »

Why, if they build that mosque we'll just have to invade Iran.  They provoked us.

TA

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #396 on: August 17, 2010, 06:09:45 PM »

the wogs on the far side of the pond

Wow.  Okay.  Maybe try again without the casual ethnic slur?
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Do you understand how terrifying the words “vibrating strap on” are for an asexual? That’s like saying “the holocaust” to a Jew.

Brentai

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #397 on: August 17, 2010, 06:29:03 PM »

Apparently 70% of the country believes it shouldn't be there, which, given that that's the same statistic as Arizona's support for SB-1070, leads me to believe that 70% of the US is made up of frightened xenophobes.

Apparently I'm a frightened xenophobe?

I mean of course there's nothing DA GUBMINT can or should do about it, but it was a bad idea to even consider putting it there.  There's only two possibilities here: the people who decided they needed a mosque there were too fucking dense to foresee this kind of reaction, or they knew full well that it would appear to be full-on, pants-down dickwaving to all the people who hold a grudge against the Muslims for that thing and responded with something between apathy and glee, which is fine I guess but not really helping in the "getting people to stop holding a grudge against the Muslims for that thing" department.  Hanlon's razor pops up again as always, but that still means it's a terrible idea that never should have gotten past the proposal and subsequent shooing out of the room phase.

If any moves had been made to block it legally then yeah, red card.  But pointing out that uhh, maybe you might want to rethink your brilliant zoning plan if for no other reason than there's a good chance of it being firebombed by hicks now, is really only persecution as far as the distance between the proposed site and the next closest of the 100+ other mosques in the city.
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Detonator

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #398 on: August 17, 2010, 06:40:43 PM »

Apparently 70% of the country believes it shouldn't be there, which, given that that's the same statistic as Arizona's support for SB-1070, leads me to believe that 70% of the US is made up of frightened xenophobes.

Apparently I'm a frightened xenophobe?

I mean of course there's nothing DA GUBMINT can or should do about it, but it was a bad idea to even consider putting it there.  There's only two possibilities here: the people who decided they needed a mosque there were too fucking dense to foresee this kind of reaction, or they knew full well that it would appear to be full-on, pants-down dickwaving to all the people who hold a grudge against the Muslims for that thing and responded with something between apathy and glee, which is fine I guess but not really helping in the "getting people to stop holding a grudge against the Muslims for that thing" department.  Hanlon's razor pops up again as always, but that still means it's a terrible idea that never should have gotten past the proposal and subsequent shooing out of the room phase.

If any moves had been made to block it legally then yeah, red card.  But pointing out that uhh, maybe you might want to rethink your brilliant zoning plan if for no other reason than there's a good chance of it being firebombed by hicks now, is really only persecution as far as the distance between the proposed site and the next closest of the 100+ other mosques in the city.

This sort of well-meaning argument could also be used to defend pretty much any society-imposed segregation.  I know this is a pretty extreme example, but in reality the whole situation is overblown and once the election's over everyone will forget about it.
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McDohl

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #399 on: August 17, 2010, 06:44:37 PM »

Jeez, I really do hate election season now.  It's like the absolute worst of either side's fringe comes to light for a good 4-6 months prior to November.
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