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[Mongrel]

There's only two possibilities here: the people who decided they needed a mosque there were too fucking dense to foresee this kind of reaction, or they knew full well that it would appear to be full-on, pants-down dickwaving to all the people who hold a grudge against the Muslims for that thing and responded with something between apathy and glee

Bit of a false dichotomy there. Never underestimate the stupidity of well-meaning idiots trying to "promote understanding".

That said, I think it does belong. The point needs to be relentlessly hammered home that extremism is separate from religion. And if that means courting firebombs and making a pile of retards angry, so be it. Good on O-dawg for his unequivocal endorsement.

If people want to argue that 'not raising a fuss' would have been a better idea, well, the entire history of the US during the 60's (and quite a few other decades) has a bone to pick with them.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Yay Det.

[Classic]

Wait, it's a mosque now? I thought it was a community center with a smaller portion dedicated to religious services?

[SCD]

Pretty much modeled after a Jewish YMCA-style facility in the same town.

Bonus round:  Best Tweet Ever

[Brentai]

"I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there (near Ground Zero)," Obama said.

Two things:
1) A community center with a prayer room is, technically, a "mosque", but the word has connotations of an actual temple if you're not actually Muslim.  So Obama's either being really technical, he's misinformed, or we're misinformed.
2) He's probably right that the actual intelligence of the decision is nobody's business.

[Mongrel]

If that backpedaling is true, it makes me SADFACE, because the context of the original speech makes a specific comparison to churches and synagogues.

[Royal☭]

Dr. Laura to end her hateful, hateful radio show

This comes on the heels of her gaining notoriety for using "nigger" eleven times in one broadcast, and telling black people they should just "get a sense of humor."  Her words as she leaves are tellingly passive-aggressive, as she talks about wanting her "first amendment rights" and how she is just trying to help people, and is sick off all these groups getting angry over her well-meaning advice!

For those not in the know, Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a conservative advice radio call-in host.  She also tends to give women whose husbands have cheated on her the advice that they just aren't pretty enough.  So, good riddance to an old, useless relic.

[McDohl]

She's not GONE FOREVER.

Watch out for the Dr. Laura Podcast, or the Dr. Laura Youtube channel!


Oh, and listen to the audio and read the transcript of what instigated this whole thing.

[clutch]

Re: the TERROR MOSQUE. It’s kind of silly, no? To my mind, it’s a bit like saying white people shouldn't be allowed in the south anymore because they've done some really rotten shit there. But then I remember Bowling For Columbine, a film that dealt with the aftermath and political ramifications of a similar (though smaller in scale) tragedy.

In the documentary, Michael Moore made great ballyhoo about the National Rifle Association holding a fundraiser nearby in the weeks after the Columbine shooting, shouting about insensitivity. How then do those same people rationalize the building of the mosque? Granted it’s been much longer since the attacks, but the loss of life was several orders of magnitude greater than at Columbine, and the effect on our culture even greater still (not to mention that the fundraiser was 20 miles away, rather than within walking distance). I personally think 9 years should be enough time to cope, but to be fair I don't know anyone that died that day.

Forgive me on this one, but I can see both sides. The people behind the mosque project most likely have never, nor will they ever, kill anyone, and it is both morally wrong and unconstitutional to try and prevent their expressions of peaceful worship. Then again it must also be said that the choice of location was at a minimum insensitive, if not intentionally provocative, and that the defense of such a choice could be seen as hypocritical.

But that’s totally okay! Muslims, build your mosque; Alaskans with no connection to New York whatsoever, be angry about it. YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT, AND NO ONE CAN SHOULD TAKE IT FROM YOU.


Note to future generations: When you all wise up and decide to knock it off with worship in toto, I'll be happy to offer some suggestions of how to better spend your money and effort.

[Mongrel]

Hey, maybe the Republicans are just jealous of all the mileage Guliani squeezed from the tragedy the first time around. Now that somebody found a little more gas in the tank, no east-coast milquetoast is gonna shunt them out of the driver's seat, no sirree!

[Classic]

When this debacle began I was really hoping that this would be an open-membership community center designed to give some positive press to the New York Muslim community. It would make the debacle more perfectly ironic.

[Thad]

But pointing out that uhh, maybe you might want to rethink your brilliant zoning plan if for no other reason than there's a good chance of it being firebombed by hicks now, is really only persecution as far as the distance between the proposed site and the next closest of the 100+ other mosques in the city.

City, state, country...Daily Show did a lovely montage this week about how every new mosque opening, or existing mosque expanding, has drawn some kind of rage-filled protest, regardless of proximity to Ground Zero.

Cowing to xenophobes who want to firebomb you is an understandable reaction, but it's not going to win you any struggles for civil rights.

A community center with a prayer room is, technically, a "mosque", but the word has connotations of an actual temple if you're not actually Muslim.  So Obama's either being really technical, he's misinformed, or we're misinformed.

Or it's a slip of the tongue because so many people keep calling it a mosque that it's easy to repeat that phrasing without thinking about it.  (I use derisive air quotes when I say "Ground Zero Mosque".)  OR he's simply caving to the right-wing noise machine again.

In the documentary, Michael Moore made great ballyhoo about the National Rifle Association holding a fundraiser nearby in the weeks after the Columbine shooting, shouting about insensitivity. How then do those same people rationalize the building of the mosque? Granted it’s been much longer since the attacks, but the loss of life was several orders of magnitude greater than at Columbine, and the effect on our culture even greater still (not to mention that the fundraiser was 20 miles away, rather than within walking distance). I personally think 9 years should be enough time to cope, but to be fair I don't know anyone that died that day.

I guess I can see the parallels -- First and Second Amendment, not all Muslims are terrorists versus not all gun owners shoot up schools -- but it strikes me as a pretty imperfect analogy, largely due to the huge difference in time scales you mention.  There's also the matter of buying real estate in Manhattan that people seem to be ignoring -- "Just go buy a community center-sized chunk of building somewhere else in midtown" is not really a very helpful piece of advice.

Tone's rather an important issue too.  If the people building the community center spouted slogans like "From my cold, dead hands," that wouldn't exactly strike a conciliatory tone.

[Catloaf]

I've been trying to ignore the whole Muslim community center in walking distance from ground zero bit.  But no one wants to shut up about it.  Note that it conveniently popped up right as the republicans' hypocrisy with the deficit/Bush tax cuts was under the spotlight.  I gotta admit Fox propaganda network is good at what it does. 

...Fucking election years.

[Brentai]

Every once in a while they have to admit that their audience isn't too bright, though.

(It's a link to Fox News saying that 1 in 5 Americans think Obama's a Muslim.)

[Thad]

AP, but yeah.

[SCD]

A ladyfriend passed this my way.  This rebuttal on the reactions to the Ground-Zero mosque is very well-spoken. 

I recommend everyone watch it. 

Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10

[Royal☭]

While this has been a fairly heated debate raging around the country, fact is, the Cordoba House doesn't even seem to have much of a chance of being built.  They have no engineer or architect, both of which will now be too difficult to get due to the exposure and controversy, and so far they've only raised $18,000 of the $100 million they need to actually build the thing.  They don't even fully own the property.  This entire thing has been an exercise in shrill, bigoted conservatives generating a furor over absolutely nothing.

[McDohl]

and how much of the efforts to complete this project has been hampered by said bigoted conservatives, making people not want to have their names attached to it?

[Thad]

I dunno, but it makes me want to go down to the restaurant/grocery attached to the local mosque and buy some falafels.

Because frankly, people who worship at mosques could use a show of support about now.

Also, they have good falafels.

[Burrito Al Pastor]

THAT'S DISCRIMINATION

[Classic]

Face it burrito, it's one more awesome food that whitey just CAN'T DO RIGHT.