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[Ted Belmont]

Well, he's old, white, ultraconservative, anti-gay and anti-choice.

So...

Lana Kane Yup

[TA]

The fast pick has me feeling like he wasn't a controversial choice, meaning he probably won't be that different than his predecessor?

Nazipope beat him by one vote in 2005, apparently.

[Ziiro]

 

[Esperath]

Francis is known as a humble man

“He cooks for himself and took great pride in telling us that, and that he took the bus to work” rather than riding in a car, Father Rosica said.

You can tell he's humble because he takes every chance to tell you so!




<Mazian>   FOXNEWS POLL: Humble Pope, or humblest Pope?

[Mongrel]

I know there are people who will never be fans of the Catholic Church, no matter what it does, but this Pope is looking like a massive improvement over the last one.

Maybe some of what he's saying will be buried, maybe there won't be deeds to match the words, and I'm sure there will be endless people who'll say this doesn't go far enough, but in the bastion of ultimate conservativism in the land of aeons-long incremental change that is the Catholic Church, even hearing those statements made is a damn good start.

EDIT: Article

[François]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I wouldn't define myself as Catholic anymore (though I haven't officially declared apostasy or anything, because why bother, I'm not trying to make a point), but still, there are enough of them in the world that having a relatively sensible man under that hat is actually very good news for everyone.

I didn't care much for the last pope, but in a way, and I say this without cynicism, that he stepped down is proof of at least some amount of wisdom on his part. It is no small thing to declare one is not the right man for the job, especially when nobody else is in a position to do anything about it.

[Mongrel]

Yeah, I have no ties to any religion, but I still think it's awfully nice to have a good pope under the mitre.

[Thad]

I've been pretty impressed by his focus on the poor and his compassion for people in prison.  Seems like a decent guy, even if you don't get that job without having a pretty different set of ethical beliefs than mine.

[Friday]

From what I understand, "We accept gays but not gay sexual acts (or most sexual acts in general, really)" has always been the position of the Church. The Pope isn't saying anything new there. He's just saying it in a way that gets most people to go "oh, man, a Pope who isn't anti-gay."

Though the article does point out an actual difference: He is willing to let gay priests stay priests, while the previous Pope was not.

Overall he seems like an improvement over the previous Pope, but remember the following facts when you suck his dick:

You're committing a sin and you're going to hell.

Unless you confess. Then God deletes all local related content.

[TA]

Or unless that dick belongs to a priest, and you're an eight year old altar boy.

[Bal]

Saying this pope is better than the last one really isn't setting the bar at all. Not that I am a fan of any Pope, but Ratzinger was actively terrible. Has this one reversed the official position on condoms in Africa yet, because if not he's still evil.

[Brentai]

Francis' position is consistent, and basically boils down to "It's totally cool to be gay as long as you never say, do, or think anything which would technically make you homosexual."

In other words, you can be gay if you also happen to be a priest.

[Büge]

Despite being a rampant optimist, it’s unlikely the Pope’s statements will create a dramatic change of tides, like I believe Obama’s change of stance on gay marriage did last year. It was, after all, just a few months ago that Pope Francis claimed that gay marriage was an “anthropological step backward.” While Argentina was voting on its own gay marriage bill, he stepped in to offer his thoughts: “Today the country, in this particular situation, needs the special assistance of the Holy Spirit to bring the light of truth on to the darkness of error, it need this advocate to defend us from being enchanted by many fallacies that are tried at all costs to justify this bill and to confuse and deceive the people of good will.”

All of this is also saddled with the fact that in the same unexpected press conference that happened this morning on the Papal airplane, his sweeping statements about gay priests were placed right next to this statement on the possibility of ordaining women in the church:

“The church says no. That door is closed.”

Hmm. “Progress.”

[Mongrel]

^ Is that like how the worst crime a politician can commit is changing his mind?

[A²]

#shotsfired

: Pope Francis tells Catholics to stop worrying about Gays, Abortions, and the like, and focus on helping people and remembering that Jesus saved you to be a good person.

[Mongrel]

Yeah, I really like this new Pope.

I especially like the way he frames the Gay/Abortion stuff as as really minor bullshit issue that the Church has gotten itself hung up on.

[Royal☭]

I mean, he's not saying that those things won't damn you to a life of eternal hellfire, but I guess not talking about it is a start. With any luck, though, maybe a stronger emphasis on economic justice will bring the church back to their radical roots in the 1920s. Or at the very least, convince Catholic universities not to force their adjunct professors into life-destroying poverty.

[Mongrel]

I think people with comfortable distance tend to underestimate how much courage is required for a single person to stand up to a massive and entrenched organization. Even if that person is supposed to be "infallible" by tradition.

[Friday]

I agree with you, Constantine, about the fact that the Catholic Church is pretty fucking stupid/horrible and a Pope saying some stuff won't change that, but on the other hand the Pope saying some stuff is a step in the right direction. Sure, he's saying it for the PR. I don't care. If he even makes one Catholic fuckhead reconsider his thoughts on how to be a Catholic (more helping others, less calling women baby-killers) then he's done a good deed.

[Thad]

Well, and there are a hell of a lot of Catholics pushing for these kind of modern reforms, too.  You're not going to get American Catholics to decide, as a group, that birth control is a bad thing; it's just not going to happen.  The push for women in the clergy is only going to get bigger.  And while gay rights is still a flashpoint for now, public opinion has only ever moved in one direction on the subject.  The Church's views on abortion are pretty entrenched, and it's still a divisive issue among the mainstream public in much of the developed world, but over time I expect that'll change too.

One of my best friends from high school came out of the closet shortly after starting college.  Not long after, his parents quit the Roman Catholic Church.  They're devout and were very active in the church (and legitimately wonderful people, I might add); they joined a more progressive offshoot sect that (1) does not think their son is condemned to hellfire and (2) allows Mom to be a preacher.

Leastways, that's how I heard the story secondhand; I'll admit I haven't been in great touch with my friend over the past few years so there could be a bit of Telephone at work here.

But I think there are lots of people like that.  Sure, there's an entrenched power structure that's resistant to change, and a pretty huge reactionary faction among the faithful that doesn't want to see the church change its views on what they consider to be core values and principles.  I think Francis is doing a pretty good job of speaking to those people -- "Hey, you want core principles?  Be humble and help the poor; all that other stuff is less important."

And there are plenty of people like my friend's parents -- people who are deeply religious, who consider their Catholic faith to be a fundamental part of their identity, but who will walk away and find some other place to worship if the church continues to condemn their friends and families.