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Author Topic: I Voted  (Read 11942 times)

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Rosencrantz

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #140 on: November 04, 2008, 12:08:31 PM »

Permanent absentee voter. Did it a week ago.

Ditto. The angry logo at the top of the boards isn't mad at me.

Turns out that my mom never mailed out my ballot, because she is still undecided (as of this very moment!) and hasn't even filled out hers yet. I just dropped mine off at the polling place.

I feel so good.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #141 on: November 04, 2008, 12:09:44 PM »

Ain't abortion. What have abortions got to do with me? I can't ever have one regardless of the law.

Oh for fuck's just tell us, damn it. We won't think any less of you unless it was a really dumb reason.
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The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #142 on: November 04, 2008, 12:17:06 PM »

Well, I did what I could. With any luck, my racist brother and homophobic cousin will be freaking the fuck out by the evening.

8-ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY.

Okay, guys.  I respect your differing views on homosexuality, but I swear to your virtuous God, if you seriously vote in any proposition that actually, right there on the ballot, begins with "ELIMINATES RIGHT" in big capital letters, then I am going to burn a hole clean through your mind with my searing eye of hatred.
Hey wait, let me help with the eye-lasering.
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Bongo Bill

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #143 on: November 04, 2008, 12:18:25 PM »

Ain't abortion. What have abortions got to do with me? I can't ever have one regardless of the law.

Oh for fuck's just tell us, damn it. We won't think any less of you unless it was a really dumb reason.
Okay, since you asked so nicely, I'll tell you. But only you. It's a secret, so don't tell anybody that it's the war.
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...but is it art?

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #144 on: November 04, 2008, 12:20:37 PM »

That's...mostly the same reason my dad (flew in the USAF) is voting McCain. He feels that Obama will pull the troops out and ultimately make the dead soliders' sacrifices worthless by pulling out without fixing the situation.
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Thad

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #145 on: November 04, 2008, 12:24:16 PM »

Bongo: good on you for voting.

The "I'm not going to talk about my opinions" stuff is still tedious, but good on you for voting.
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Kayin

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #146 on: November 04, 2008, 12:25:56 PM »

 :gasp:
"If we don't stop this grinder by clogging it with bodes now, all those who have fallen into the grinder will of been ground in vain!"

But nah not to hate on Bongo (more like said father). I just always found that line of reasoning sort of .. flawed.. But hey, to each his own! I argue with my dad about guns all the time (NRA) guy -- mostly saying that shouldn't be a deciding issue, but at the end of the day, hey, he's entitled to his opinions. And again, we're in New York so it's moot anyways.
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Kashan

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #147 on: November 04, 2008, 12:29:57 PM »

I think there's a legitimate argument that pulling out the way Obama is planning on could be more harmful to our country in the long run than staying until whenever the way McCain wants to.

I don't buy into that argument, and that's not where my priorities are anyhow, but I think it's probably a misrepresentation of Bongo's views to oversimplify it as "these colors don't run" or other war slogans.
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Bongo Bill

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #148 on: November 04, 2008, 12:35:25 PM »

I do apologize for all the drama (maybe too strong a word) over it. I've had a tendency, in much less mature environments than this one, to be goaded into long and fruitless arguments over it, wherein I respond to oversimplifications of my reasons with over-elaborate failures to convince anyone of something more defensible, to the detriment of everyone's blood pressure and free time. Kind of overcorrected for it.

I guess what I am trying to say is I WUB YOO GUYS
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Kayin

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #149 on: November 04, 2008, 12:38:27 PM »

I can buy that too to a degree for someones voting decisions. It's more of a matter of sticking it out for dead solders I don't like. I really don't want to see more dead 18 year olds and amputees and just think thats a crazy line of thinking.

WE LUB U TOO BONGO :<
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TA

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #150 on: November 04, 2008, 12:39:21 PM »

:gasp:
"If we don't stop this grinder by clogging it with bodes now, all those who have fallen into the grinder will of been ground in vain!"

But nah not to hate on Bongo (more like said father). I just always found that line of reasoning sort of .. flawed.. But hey, to each his own! I argue with my dad about guns all the time (NRA) guy -- mostly saying that shouldn't be a deciding issue, but at the end of the day, hey, he's entitled to his opinions. And again, we're in New York so it's moot anyways.

It's called the Concorde Fallacy, and yeah, it is flawed.
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Brentai

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #151 on: November 04, 2008, 12:41:33 PM »

I have a buttload of problems with the decision, but now's really not the time to go off about them.
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Kayin

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #152 on: November 04, 2008, 12:42:57 PM »

Hooray, I always like new terms to speed up communications!
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Thad

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #153 on: November 04, 2008, 12:44:55 PM »

I think there's a legitimate argument that pulling out the way Obama is planning on could be more harmful to our country in the long run than staying until whenever the way McCain wants to.

The problem is that, much as McCain would love to dismiss the "How did we get here?" question, the fact that we shouldn't have gone in in the first place IS relevant to whether he has good judgement.  He's said "the surge is working" enough times that it's become CW (and Obama and the rest of the Dems haven't had the balls to argue with him), but that claim is debatable at best.

I'm willing to acknowledge that we're fucked whatever we do in Iraq, and we're going to have to pick the lesser-evil path from here on in.  I just disagree that staying in there is the lesser-evil path.

There's also the question of McCain's bellicosity on Iran.  Even assuming he's 100% right on Iraq (which I of course do not), he's not a guy I'd trust with the decision on whether or not to start another war.

Per Concorde Fallacy (which, again, I'm not suggesting Bongo buys into, but since Lyrai brought it up), the "but if we leave, all those troops died for nothing!" argument is a very human, instinctive reaction.  But it's not a rational one.  For my part, I think the war has been a horrible waste and everyone who's died there has died because of the Bush Administration's lies, incompetence, and flawed worldview.  And that's not a pretty thought to have; in fact it's heartbreaking.

But I think Obama handled it well in one of the debates when he said that no soldier ever dies in vain; service to your country is always honorable.

I think he's probably right in a certain sense, though my sympathy lies more with John Kerry (back when he still had balls): How can you ask a man to be the last one to die for a mistake?
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Kashan

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #154 on: November 04, 2008, 12:52:23 PM »

As I said, I don't buy the argument that keeping troops in Iraq would make us safer or fulfill our national duties or really in any way be better than reassigning them to Afghanistan. I just didn't think that dismissing the person holding this opposite stance as an emotionally driven idiot was really helpful.
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Lady Duke

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #155 on: November 04, 2008, 01:10:05 PM »

Kazz and I voted, and Kazz convinced my mom to also vote Obama.   :victory:
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Re: I Voted
« Reply #156 on: November 04, 2008, 02:15:48 PM »

My dad has his own reasons for wanting to stick it out, not the least of which is he was disabled in the line of service (Remember how I said USAF? Botched landing.) He is incredibly devoted to anything that affects those in uniform. And I can't really fault him for that.
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Thad

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #157 on: November 04, 2008, 02:56:47 PM »

I can fault him for voting for someone who has repeatedly voted against funding for veterans and saying he's doing it for the benefit of the troops.

EDIT: excerpt:

Quote
As an Army hospital, rather than a VA facility, Walter Reed actually falls under the purview of his Armed Services Committee, rather than Veterans Affairs.

Yet McCain voted against a 2006 Senate measure that would have closed tax loopholes for the very wealthy to devote $1 billion to failing healthcare facilities for veterans, including Walter Reed.

[...]

Vote Vets' Brandon Friedman has documented and circulated dozens of instances since 1987 in which the senator has voted against what adds up to billions of dollars in funding for veterans for healthcare, counseling, and other benefits. McCain has voted to outsource VA jobs held by blue-collar veterans and supports privatizing healthcare for veterans — very unpopular positions among many vets.

More famously, he actively opposed the most recent GI Bill, stating that its education benefits were so generous that he worried it would encourage military personnel to leave the service. Even his conservative colleague and ally, John Warner, the Republican senator from Virginia, supported the bill, but McCain wouldn't budge; he didn't bother to show up for the final vote.

[...]

In both 2006 and 2007-08, the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave McCain a D for his record on key congressional votes.

The Disabled American Veterans scored him at 20 percent in 2006; 25 percent in 2005; and 50 percent in 2004.

And the Retired Enlisted Association gave him a 0 in 2006 and a rating of 18 percent in 2004.

These are the most recent rankings released by the groups.

There's a lot more there -- seven pages' worth.
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Re: I Voted
« Reply #158 on: November 04, 2008, 03:10:24 PM »

Talked with him some more.

He doesn't really like McCain, he doesn't really like Obama, he doesn't really like Biden, and he liked Palin up until I pointed out that my pet Cockatiel Jesse would make a better president than her and backed it up.

I think he's just frustrated, to be honest. He just sort of grunted at that article, a sign I've picked up to mean "Well now the fuck what do you want me to do?"
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Kayma

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Re: I Voted
« Reply #159 on: November 04, 2008, 03:37:34 PM »

Voted for Obama after work. Surprisingly, I didn't have to contend with a line. I don't know how I feel about that...
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