Topic: White Kids Talk About Race (Read 9909 times)

Thad · « **Reply #20 on:** November 01, 2008, 05:12:14 PM »

...So all right. I see a lot of "wah wah wah affirmative action is evil and racist" posts, with a total of zero sources cited and zero alternatives proposed.

Discuss.

Detonator · « **Reply #21 on:** November 01, 2008, 05:29:12 PM »

The most obvious alternative would be to base actions on socioeconomic status while ignoring race.

If there are a disproportionate amount of poor blacks compared to poor whites, then more blacks would be accepted under the program.

There may still need to be a safeguard to make sure that minorities are not being selectively ignored.

I'm not one of the people railing against affirmative action, but I'm guessing this would be the type of program its detractors here would prefer.

Thad · « **Reply #22 on:** November 01, 2008, 05:33:13 PM »

Quote from: Detonator on November 01, 2008, 05:29:12 PM

The most obvious alternative would be to base actions on socioeconomic status while ignoring race.

...I think the fact that you can't just tell people to ignore race and expect them to do it is kind of the fucking point here.

Quote from: Detonator on November 01, 2008, 05:29:12 PM

There may still need to be a safeguard to make sure that minorities are not being selectively ignored.

We have one of those.

It's called affirmative action.

Detonator · « **Reply #23 on:** November 01, 2008, 05:52:53 PM »

See why I didn't argue against it?

Kazz · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2008, 06:00:22 PM »

I'm not an opponent of affirmative action. I just don't think it's solving the problem. Which could be fine, if the problem were being solved some other way.

Thad · « **Reply #25 on:** November 01, 2008, 06:11:23 PM »

You're being so incredibly vague that I don't know where to start.

Staying equally vague, I would say that there are a hell of a lot of different ways people are working to "solve the problem" but that it's not really the sort of thing you can fix in a day, week, year, administration, or generation.

Fredward · « **Reply #26 on:** November 01, 2008, 06:22:46 PM »

Affirmative action doesn't solve racism. I think we can agree on that. At best it gives disadvantaged groups a leg up.

Okay, that's fine. Only, affirmative action is also unfair. It's more fair than letting racist\sexist practises keep minorities\women from getting good jobs and educations. But it is nevertheless unfair, for the sole reason that it gives certain groups an advantage over another groups based on elements not at all related to competence or intelligence. Therefore, it should only be looked at as a temporary measure, until those kinds of discriminatory practises are a thing of the past. To do that, we need action of a different sort, which isn't really happening.

Kashan · « **Reply #27 on:** November 01, 2008, 06:48:19 PM »

Quote from: Fredward on November 01, 2008, 06:22:46 PM

Okay, that's fine. Only, affirmative action is also unfair.

The cases in which affirmative action would apply are ones in which there is no fair choice anyhow.

Brentai · « **Reply #28 on:** November 01, 2008, 07:05:08 PM »

Let's put it this way.

The lot of you who are for lower tax tiers for the poor and against affirmative action for the minorities clearly cannot remove your heads from your asses.

...wait. I'm against tax tiers and for affirmative action.

Nevermind.

Thad · « **Reply #29 on:** November 01, 2008, 08:02:18 PM »

Quote from: Fredward on November 01, 2008, 06:22:46 PM

Only, affirmative action is also unfair. It's more fair than letting racist\sexist practises keep minorities\women from getting good jobs and educations. But it is nevertheless unfair, for the sole reason that it gives certain groups an advantage over another groups based on elements not at all related to competence or intelligence.

"Fair" is subjective and unquantifiable.

Your post in the Jail thread hints at the complex psychological issues involved from the get-go. I don't think trying to distill it down to "fair" versus "unfair" really does it justice.

That said, I think you and I are more or less on the same page and just debating semantics at this point. We're talking about an artificial means for leveling the playing field while we're waiting for society to catch up. As I noted earlier, that's not something that happens quickly or easily.

Catloaf · « **Reply #30 on:** November 01, 2008, 08:19:48 PM »

I don't really have much of a strong opinion on Affirmative Action. I'm for it, but that's mainly because skinheads and the klan HATE it. And that must mean it's somewhat good. It ain't perfect, but again, there isn't anything better. Also, Shinra, Flint is pretty much an even split in terms of race, and everyone there is poor. If someone there isn't poor, I have no idea what they're doing there ... drugs maybe?

Brentai · « **Reply #31 on:** November 01, 2008, 08:21:32 PM »

That's hardly a barometer of success. Gangsta rap isn't doing the black population's image any favors, and the racists still hate it.

Catloaf · « **Reply #32 on:** November 01, 2008, 08:26:00 PM »

Yes, but Gangsta rap is music, racists hate it because it makes them think about the people they don't like. Affirmative action is a form of government regulation, racists hate it because it seeks to help the people they don't like.

Alex · « **Reply #33 on:** November 01, 2008, 10:00:25 PM »

As a half ~~Jamaican~~ black guy, I'm going to have to say that ~~rasta~~ rap/hip-hop is a terrible musical genre and should be banned forever and the artists flogged for being retarded.

And in a lot of my experiences with black people, they're complaining about the stereotypes followed by turning around to prove why they're even there to begin with (by going to dope up, put on a bandana with ~~their gang's colors~~ 'symbolic colors' or BIX NOOD or whatevs). It makes me sad to be even remotely related to any of them. So I can't help but feel that affirmative action leans toward 'helping the problem get worse'.

Thad · « **Reply #34 on:** November 01, 2008, 10:09:20 PM »

...how?

Your post draws no logical connection between affirmative action and the three sentences preceding it. If you see one there, okay, feel free to explain, but the connection is not nearly as self-evident as your "so" implies.

Beat Bandit · « **Reply #35 on:** November 01, 2008, 10:13:07 PM »

It's obvious Thad. He is saying rap makes black people lazy, and that since they are lazy they complain about not getting a job and then are given one for free by affirmative action.

That's how affirmative action works, right? A white guy walks through Harlem giving applications to anyone with a 40oz? Because if not then yeah, that was a stupid connection.

Alex · « **Reply #36 on:** November 01, 2008, 10:22:07 PM »

What Rygaron said. Alternative, the Bill Cosby Pound Cake speech.

(I'm pretty terrible at explaining myself! Can you tell?)

A² · « **Reply #37 on:** November 01, 2008, 10:34:20 PM »

Quote from: Alex

I see black dudes complaining that everyone says they're rapping, swearing, gang-sign-flipping lazy dudes and that's why they can't get a job, but then five minutes later they're rapping about niggers and fuckers and flipping the sign of their local gang to the cops.
By simply handing them a job, and not requiring that they better themselves, Affirmative Action only perpetuates the problem, and does nothing to solve it

Alex · « **Reply #38 on:** November 01, 2008, 10:35:41 PM »

Exactly!

Norondor · « **Reply #39 on:** November 01, 2008, 10:43:52 PM »

Everyone is wrong but thad, again

Getting tired of people thinking they can have serious discussions here

News:

Author Topic: White Kids Talk About Race (Read 9909 times)