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[Saturn]

Of course all of this doesn't even mention the very valid point that Kazz brought up that both teams play the same level with the same tank spawn points,

[Catloaf]

Of course all of this doesn't even mention the very valid point that Kazz brought up that both teams play the same level with the same tank spawn points,

I've played times where the other team got a Tank each round and my team got it once, in the middle of fucking nowhere, while all of their tanks spawned right on top of us.  They also got the better weapons when we didn't.  And more healing items.

[yyler]

I disagree.  Every team I've ever seen that has tried to run through the level has gotten their shit kicked in when they round a corner, get boomed on, hunters pop out, smoker isolates one, etc.

As long as everybody stays close the whole time, the specials are no threat at all.  People should be patient.

This may be true, but like Catloaf says, if you wait around you are just giving the Infected more chances to attack. Even on Expert this isn't a big deal, but against a real person this is a monstrous advantage, pun intended. This is why at the end of No Mercy you just double use the radio and hope for the best. Expert mode is nothing compared to a smart player who can lead a team of Infected well.

If, you know, the general playerbase was intelligent, I'd probably enjoy this game. As it stands, I really hate it, so if you ever see norondor playing it isn't me or him.

[James Edward Smith]

Of course all of this doesn't even mention the very valid point that Kazz brought up that both teams play the same level with the same tank spawn points,

I've played times where the other team got a Tank each round and my team got it once, in the middle of fucking nowhere, while all of their tanks spawned right on top of us.  They also got the better weapons when we didn't.  And more healing items.

Oh, guess that's all dynamic then.

[Kazz]

Man, all you guys are big whiners.

I can't believe anybody would actually legitimately bitch about "melee spam."

Also I didn't say that the tanks spawn in the same spot.  I don't think I even mentioned tanks.

It upsets me that so many of my friends here hate playing with or against other people.  gb2peggle.

[Kazz]

Oh yeah, and 2 hunters at a time is not a hard and fast rule.

That's the second time I've seen that.

By the way, the guy who isn't tackled actually saved us and we made it to the finale (when everybody ran in different directions from the first tank and we wiped.  And I was laughing my ass off because I don't take games super serial.)

[Bal]

It's not about taking it seriously. At the point where the survivors become invulnerable due to some obviously unintended trick of geometry my fun level drops to zero instantly, and I no longer want to play, therefore I don't.

[Norondor]

I don't hate vs. multiplayer. I love TF2. I LOVE TF2. I was playing some just a minute ago! You know why TF2 is better than L4D?

-you can pick your class, rather than being automatically assigned to the scout every time and then, once an hour, the heavy

-the team sizes are big enough to support one or even two people who have no idea what they are doing, allowing you to have fun without having people stack teams

[Saturn]

when it gets to the point that the reaction to any zombie horde is "RUN INTO CLOSET, MASH Q+MOUSE 2. (this is what i mean by melee spam, the abuse of a bug to melee FAR FASTER THAN INTENDED, and remember that when a zombie-player gets meleed he loses control for a few seconds and cant see shit)
shit gets stupid.


smoker at the moment is TF2 spy minus the cloak/backstab/gun plus a giant fartcloud that does nothing (giving the fartcloud a DOT could actually fix the fucking closet problem)

[Kazz]

It's not about taking it seriously. At the point where the survivors become invulnerable due to some obviously unintended trick of geometry my fun level drops to zero instantly, and I no longer want to play, therefore I don't.

because you never, ever switch to survivors and can never, ever use that yourself.

these glitches are self-balancing until Valve fixes the actual problem.

but i can't save your fun level, i suppose.

[yyler]

I can't really speak for Bal, but taking advantage of something stupid like that to win isn't very fun, whether it's a simple exploit or one that does take skill to do. These glitches aren't self balancing.

[Kazz]

It's not like the entire level is an enormous geometry exploit and the survivors can never leave.

And besides, the tank isn't going to die if he doesn't attack the survivors.  Control will switch between the infected players, but unless they actually want to sit under the stairs FOREVER until the entire other team leaves, they can't win that way.

But I'm done arguing here because you all hate versus anyway.  Personally I think it's a brilliant piece of design and it may be imperfect in spots but on the whole it's the most fun I've ever had.

Of course, I'm speaking as someone who was addicted to the Garry's Mod and CounterStrike zombie mod servers, as well as the Zombie Master mod.  It's kind of my thing, I guess.  Ranking just below 1 on 1 sniper duels.

(a brief reminder that Pod is going to be the best game ever)

[yyler]

When the stupid stuff is fixed I probably won't hate the game anymore.

[King Klown]

Oh yeah, and 2 hunters at a time is not a hard and fast rule.

That's the second time I've seen that.

By the way, the guy who isn't tackled actually saved us and we made it to the finale (when everybody ran in different directions from the first tank and we wiped.  And I was laughing my ass off because I don't take games super serial.)

Interesting. 

I love versus, because the waiting game is in the zombies favor. Wait under the stairs, wait in the closet. The moment you leave, hell is upon you. 

[Kazz]

The infected aren't supposed to be the equal of the survivors.  Not even close.  You're just controlling the various tests of their teamwork.  Every survivor team should pass.  If they don't, it's their fault, not really the fault of the infected.  The infected team will always do the same things, more or less.  Survivors should always make it if they have any idea what they're doing.

[Bal]

It may be self-balancing to a degree, although the random nature of the spawns makes it somewhat less so, hiding in a closet, or under the stairs, is not my idea of fun. I do like versus mode, a lot actually, which is why these exploits irritate me so much.

[François]

You know, these closets and stuff, they're totally gay. Legitimate at the moment, I have to admit, but gay. First time a guy told me to hide under the stairs in the boathouse, I was all "what, how can this even work", and then I was all "what the fuck, it worked, that's so gay". That wasn't even in versus.

I've kind of come to accept it, mostly because you'd be hard pressed to find people who won't do it. But I want to be forced to move as the frontline shifts, I want to prevent zombies from climbing on my rooftop from five different directions, I want to use pipe bombs because I have to, I want to run out into a mob to melee a dude who just got tongued then pounced, and I want to get nervous because the only molotov we have left is on the bottom floor. But I can't have any of that, because everyone else is being all gay in the freaking closet and if I don't obey the homosexual agenda I'll be taken out like a chump in five seconds.

So yeah. It works. But it's gay.

[Saturn]

the survivor strategy is "SIT IN CLOSET FLAILING AWAY UNTIL SOMEONE ON ZOMBIETEAM GETS FED UP AND RAGEQUITS"

[Doom]

smoker at the moment is TF2 spy minus the cloak/backstab/gun plus a giant fartcloud that does nothing (giving the fartcloud a DOT could actually fix the fucking closet problem)

Spies are intended to work alone but can capitalize on excellent team work.

Smokers should never work alone. Even if you're just counting circumstance as your partner.

Idly wondering why these closets can't be defeated by one good boomer. I'm thinking of the No Mercy hospital elevator. Can't he just spawn to the side, hug the corner and be on top of the survivors? Go ahead, shoot him.

"But they melee."

So sneak in during a horde rush. I double dare four auto-shotguns to not kill a guy who detonates to two pistol shots.

[Doom]

Nobody has recounted it yet so I will!

Me Bal Sieg and Wiseman embarked upon truly epic Advanced Campaigns last night.

Highlight Reel:

-In No Mercy, a Tank spawned near the gas station/lift and was behind a Police Car. As we all worked at zombies and got ready to fall back, he punted the car... and just watched it go. Seriously, he idled.

As the thing gracefully spun twice in the air, crushed two of us on impact, slid along the wall and landed on the other two. A perfect strike.

-In a later level, I believe from Safe Room to Alley to Pizza Parlor(Or the same level?!), a tank spawned and chased us back out the Pizza Parlor into the alley.

He punted a dumpster down the alley and Incapacitated three of us. This left Bal to be thoroughly thrashed, alone.

-The finale of No Mercy. By this point(my second day of owning the game), I am seriously growing to dread No Mercy's Finale. This was the third time I was Smokered off the Roof into a horde, freed of the Smoker, pinned by a Hunter and finished off.

But to up the ante, everybody pulled through on three men, survived both tanks and the entire finale.. until the copter landed.

They rushed.

The first thing to happen was a hunter grabbing Wiseman. He was pulled under and there were so many zombies that Bal couldn't auto-shotgun the Hunter at all, and he was in bad shape as is. Limpin'!

Sieg is following and trying to help, but there's just TOO MANY GOD DAMN! Bal and Sieg head up the ramp, Bal limping away with all his gritty Bill resolve.. when he's smokered to a lower level. He's ten feet from the copter and he's smokered. Tragically, he could've saved himself but he was locked in the auto-shotty's insanely long reload check.

Sieg was the only survivor. In Memory of Wiseman, doomykins and Bal.

-We headed off to Dead Air and at that finale, guess what happened. A tank!

He threw a stone at the minigun, knocking me away.

He punted a trailer, which flew OVER the minigun and KO'd Bal as he tried to hop off the fuel truck.

He threw a second stone at the minigun, KOing me!

And then he just beat everybody to death...

Christ. Over the course of two tries as I held the minigun, I got hunter'd at least five times. Those fuckers really had the mini locked down.

I love this game so much.