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Author Topic: Election Day  (Read 8149 times)

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Büge

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2008, 04:16:45 PM »

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Mongrel

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2008, 04:25:30 PM »

In principle, I agree with your point above, but I also believe that, regardless of "potential revenue", there are some things the government should not directly encourage. In the same sense, I usually think drugs and prostitution should be legalized, but I don't think the government should be an actual provider (tax the shit out of it, yeah, that I can be on board for).

I don't think funding schools with tobacco money encourages people to smoke.

I could also raise the "excessive gambling costs society more money indirectly than it directly feeds into government coffers" argument, but I don't have enough source material to make strong points without looking up a ton of stuff. AND I'M LAZY.

Sure, but again, the alternative is to ban gambling.

If education funding is tied to gambling, it can be stymied in the guise of anti-gambling bills, or the bill can be used as an excuse to cut real funding to schools. It can also encourage gambling, or make it look like the state is for funding better education while actually weighing it down with a moral issue.

It's like one of those movies where the good guy has to escape while handcuffed to the bad guy.

Sure, but where else is the money coming from?  The way I see it, beggars can't be choosers; when schools are adequately funded, THEN we can start picking and choosing where those tax dollars come from.

Of course, bear in mind that I'm only talking about taxes here.  Let's not try to slippery-slope it into "big tobacco gives schools a lot of money in exchange for advertising" or anything like that.

Sorry, should have been clearer.

Legalized vice? Fine.

Taxation of legalized vice? No problem with that.

The Goverment actually being the direct purveyor of such services (state-run casinos, monopoly government-run liqour stores, county-run brothels)? No fucking way.

There is a huge difference between pragmatically admitting a harm exists and doing what you can given bad circumstances vs. having a congressman stand on the street corner  and playing pusherman in his off hours with a big sign labelled "GOVERNMENT DOPE". 

Also, government monopoly (or even involvement) in vice, tends to result in, well, shitty 3rd class vice! Which defeats the whole damn premise of legalized vice anyway.
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Mongrel

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2008, 04:26:27 PM »

The earliest states are closed.  So far only Kentucky and NH have been called, with predictable results; you guys are welcome to get into exit polls if you want to but I'm not going to bother; the real numbers will be in soon enough and we've waited this long already; no sense going with flawed approximations.

I don't like what I see in Virginia so far.
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Detonator

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2008, 04:32:15 PM »

The earliest states are closed.  So far only Kentucky and NH have been called, with predictable results; you guys are welcome to get into exit polls if you want to but I'm not going to bother; the real numbers will be in soon enough and we've waited this long already; no sense going with flawed approximations.

I don't like what I see in Virginia so far.

There's a long way to go, bud.  Obama was up 8 points here last week, no reason to think there was a drastic change suddenly.  Give it a chance.

Also, Thad means Vermont, not NH.
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Kashan

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2008, 04:35:30 PM »

Initial returns on Indiana are positive.
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Mongrel

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2008, 04:37:30 PM »

I know, it's just depressing: On the 'in progress' map, McCain is leading every reporting state EXCEPT NH and Florida.

Luckily it's still way early.
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Mongrel

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2008, 04:39:10 PM »

Initial returns on Indiana are positive.

That's odd. My tracker (AP) shows intial returns for McCain.

...

Huddle time: Who's got the most accurate tracker?
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Thad

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2008, 04:40:20 PM »

Legalized vice? Fine.

Taxation of legalized vice? No problem with that.

The Goverment actually being the direct purveyor of such services (state-run casinos, monopoly government-run liqour stores, county-run brothels)? No fucking way.

Buuut is anyone actually talking about that?

Also, Thad means Vermont, not NH.

Right, yes, fixed.  The Google map, stupidly, had them highlighted but not labelled (it's been fixed since) and I got the two confused.  Sorry Kazz.
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Mongrel

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2008, 04:41:43 PM »

Legalized vice? Fine.

Taxation of legalized vice? No problem with that.

The Goverment actually being the direct purveyor of such services (state-run casinos, monopoly government-run liqour stores, county-run brothels)? No fucking way.

Buuut is anyone actually talking about that?

Well, I was...  :sadpanda:

Nah. See up here in commie-land, government saction of vice often goes with that kind of thing. In Ontario, the liqour board is state-controlled (and the province has a monopoly on liqour stores*), all lotteries are and almost all casinos are state-owned, and the only legal (medical) pot is federally provided (and of notorious quality at horrendous price). So, it's sort of an instinctive thing to shake my fist at.

*:MENDOZAAAAA:
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Also, Thad means Vermont, not NH.

Right, yes, fixed.  The Google map, stupidly, had them highlighted but not labelled (it's been fixed since) and I got the two confused.  Sorry Kazz.
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Shinra

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2008, 04:52:03 PM »

I know, it's just depressing: On the 'in progress' map, McCain is leading every reporting state EXCEPT NH and Florida.

Luckily it's still way early.


Keep in mind, rural counties (usually) close first. Rural counties almost always break republican - so if the numbers seem grim, it's not indicative of the end result of the election.
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Detonator

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2008, 05:05:42 PM »

MSNBC has called Pennsylvania for Obama.  Pretty telling to be called this early.

Chris Matthews just said that this was the "Second Battle of Gettysburg", and it went "the same way as the first, a failure for the Republicans".

...


what
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"Imagine punching somebody so hard that they turned into a door. Then you found out that's where ALL doors come from, and you got initiated into a murder club that makes doors. The stronger you punch, the better the door. So there are like super strong murderers who punch people into Venetian doors and shit"

Kazz

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2008, 05:09:41 PM »

Let's see.  The Union won the Battle of Gettysburg... Lincoln was head of the Union... Lincoln was a Republican... the Union went on to win the Civil War... hrm hrm hrm... and then Lincoln was shot in the head.

I guess that's a loss?
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Thad

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2008, 05:11:25 PM »

...maybe by "Republicans" he meant "racists".

It's easy to get the two confused.

Google currently has the score at 78-34 with Obama up.
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Kayma

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2008, 05:12:35 PM »

MSNBC has called Pennsylvania for Obama.  Pretty telling to be called this early.

Came to post this. We may cling to our guns and religion, but we did the right thing in the end.
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Thad

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2008, 05:37:30 PM »

Liddy Dole's out.
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Mongrel

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2008, 05:40:43 PM »

Returns are definitely looking more promising.

I just wish I could fathom the huge disparity betwen the AP tracker and the Google tracker.
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Brentai

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2008, 05:44:26 PM »

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Mongrel

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2008, 05:52:20 PM »

Wow, the AP tracker actually has Obama losing the running popular vote tally as of right now.

And I looked at the BBC page, they again show different trends.

WHY WILL NO TWO PAGES AGREE. ARGH.
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Brentai

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2008, 05:54:28 PM »

Because they're based on third-party exit polls, and reports that are still in the process of being, er, processed.  It's not worth getting worked up over.

Although I may be saying that because I wanted to get worked up over it, and this fucking day just sucked all the energy out of me.  I cannot wait for this Change I keep hearing about.
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Mongrel

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Re: Election Day
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2008, 05:56:31 PM »

I guess I'll keep watching the AP. If the pro-McCain site calls it for Obama, then I know we're in good shape.  ::D:
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