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[McFrugal]

You forgot to mention how he LIGHTS ON FIRE halfway down.

[Brentai]

Everything?  What about the flaming black guy who jumps out of an airplane to give you bullets?

You didn't think I was calling him gay, did you?

PS EPIC NIGGA MANEUVER

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WO44kHkWJqQ

[sei]

This making spells not based on weapon damage, but making weapon skills based on weapon damage shit that the industry is so into?  It needs to stop.

what?

It's not the multiple-attribute-dependency thing that Demo brought up.

It's that in some (many?) games, weapon-based skills scale with weapons, with a damage stat, and various modifiers.  Spells will occasionally benefit from a +spell damage effect on an item or some such, but most of the items casters get don't impact their damage output (etc.) nearly as much as that of the weapon-skill users.  Watching games in beta, where the balance hasn't yet been worked out yet, is pretty painful.  Some games never get it right, even after release.

Mythos's present state (being a beta, maybe it's excusable) of balance is absolutely up-side down.  Casters benefit from %-based damage bonuses on all slots but weapons (probably a bug) and get no damage from wisdom or the other things I'm about to list for others.  Melee/gunners benefit from str/dex (which contribute to %-based damage bonus), flat elemental and non-elemental damage bonuses, and scaling from their weapons.

Oh, %-based bonus damage also has a cap of like 200, which the casters can hit with either a) a good robe and 4-5 good items of other slots, or b) investment in a "talent" that halves their total hp for about 150% bonus and 2-3 good non-robe items.

Blah.

But, well...BETA.

[Brentai]

You know what I'm tired of?  Running through town.  I get seriously annoyed when I have to load three areas to get from the weapon shop to the armor shop.  And then there's that one game that starts off a chapter at one side of (the game's only) town, makes you run to the other side for a cutscene that teleports you back to where you started from, makes you run across town again for another cutscene which, again, teleports you back, and then makes you run across town a third time for two more cutscenes.  Oh, and it doesn't teleport you back this time, so you get to run across town a fourth time to get back to where you started off to advance the story.  At no point during this whole time do you fight any monsters or gain any items or even learn anything important to the plot.

...that's a really extreme example, but it still bugs me when I have to jog all over hell to take care of all my equipment.

[EmaWii]

You know what I'm tired of?  Running through town.

The example you gave sounds like an awful lot of running. I do like compact places, though. If they just do a menu-based village it feels cheap or slack-offish. Maybe that's just because the games that tend to do it are low-budget to begin with? Has there been a really rad game with a menu town?

[Brentai]

What kills me is that said game really does have a menu town.  You'll know what I mean when you see it.

Anyway, various versions of FF Tactics pull off menu towns not-too-badly, and some of the more compact versions of Ys turn the towns into menus without losing too much effect.  Adol doesn't NEED to scour the damn place looking for Lair, really.

You know what town I like?  Aiedo in Phantasy Star IV.  It's a huge capital city with lots to explore, but when you want to get down to business it turns out all the shops you need are in one huge mall right next to the town entrance.  Of course there's also the only Hunter's Guild in the world, crammed into the back corner of the place, so I guess you just can't win when it comes to RPG city planning.

[Dooly]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WO44kHkWJqQ

Is this music actually in the game?

[François]

You know what town I like?  Aiedo in Phantasy Star IV.  It's a huge capital city with lots to explore, but when you want to get down to business it turns out all the shops you need are in one huge mall right next to the town entrance.

That'd be nice if it was true, but the big mall at the entrance is pretty much only a compendium of crappy stuff you can buy at places you've already been. The equipment you actually want to buy is in separate stores near the guild building...

[Brentai]

Oh, you're right.  I only remembered how relieved I was that all the shops were in one place and forgot my crushing disappointment when I found out it was a trap.

MENDOZ

...also, he caught fire because the monster has control over certain subcellular organisms present in all living creatures, which causes anyone who comes close to it (with the exception of the woman) to burst into flames.

I always loved the fact that, despite the fact that he's on fire because every cell in his body is burning itself, falling into the ocean is enough to put it out.

[Thad]

Under no circumstance, ever, should a game turn off your automap and then make you navigate through a bunch of identical platforms, trying to solve timed puzzles while being attacked by ridiculously strong monsters.

If you had asked me a week ago how I felt about FF12, I would have had some very positive things to say.  But the last two times I've picked it up I've not only been frustrated but actually enraged by it.

I would have had more fun doing my homework.  That is not hyperbole.

[Brentai]

Hum, and I just bought Revenant Wings to play simultaneously with FFXII (and a tangentially related game).

Let the paining begin.

[Classic]

Hum, and I just bought Revenant Wings to play simultaneously with FFXII (and a tangentially related game).

Let the paining begin.

There are some segments where I was powerful enough and endlessly respawning enemies had reasonable enough drops that I felt a little guilty for only did an hour or so of grinding for LPs before stopping. Hint hint.

[Thad]

I would have had more fun doing my homework.  That is not hyperbole.

A quick followup: I spent a couple hours on my homework, and can confirm that those hours were much more enjoyable than the ones I spent on FF12 tonight.

I haven't looked up from a programming project to say "Holy shit, it's 1 AM already?" in YEARS.

[Doom]

Under no circumstance, ever, should a game turn off your automap and then make you navigate through a bunch of identical platforms, trying to solve timed puzzles while being attacked by ridiculously strong monsters.

If you had asked me a week ago how I felt about FF12, I would have had some very positive things to say.  But the last two times I've picked it up I've not only been frustrated but actually enraged by it.

I would have had more fun doing my homework.  That is not hyperbole.

I just clawed through Draklor Labs myself. Jesus Christ.

Repeating hallways? Check.

Generic enemies that drop piss-poor loot, compounded by the fact that you desperately need money for the shop upgrades that happen before AND after Draklor? Check and Check!

Boring switch puzzle, plenty of dead ends with no reward or impetus to explore, and disabling your map for no reason? Check, Check, Check!

Actually pretty good boss fight  that ends in a blisteringly retarded fashion? Check.

Oh well. Time to grind out 500k gil to even hope to be up to par on equipment and spells.

At least hunting marks is fun, and I just got seven(!) more of them.

[Thad]

Yeah, I quit playing for a year shortly after Draklor.

I DO love the hunts; that's what I've been up to.  But again, going through Nabudis for a few of them with no save point in sight is not fun.  This particular occasion from last night that I'm complaining about, I was doing another sweep of the crystal, the area you can only get into after you come back later with the Treaty Blade.  I was checking it out because I was already right nextdoor fighting a hunt, and I figured what the hell, it's going to be a bastard hoofing it back to the entrance anyway because for some reason that last save point is blue and not orange.

Anyway, obviously there's something in there, but I am confident that it is not worth going back for; I finally gave up and went back to my last save.

Maybe if I gain about 20 levels and have a walkthrough in front of me I'll try it again, but aside from that possibility, fuck it.

[Niku]

I DO love the hunts;

Easily my favorite part of XII.  I still haven't beaten the game, but I did like .. 40 of the 45 hunts?  Something like that?  I think what made me finally stop is hunting the King Behemoth.  There are two massive, fog filled areas teeming with enemies.  To get the King Behemoth to spawn, you have to kill every single enemy in these two areas.  Enemies, mind you, that you can't see unless they're like ten feet in front of you.  There is no way to save this cleared room condition.  I sure hope you beat the King Behemoth on the first try!

I didn't, and .. haven't picked the game up since.

[Brentai]

Is FFXII designed to get players to quit or something?  I'm on my third restart right now, for  's sake.

[Ted Belmont]

Wow. I thought it was just me.

[Rosencrantz]

Wow. I thought it was just me.

Nope, I've seen a surprising amount of people - myself included - who get nearly to the end and stop. I was practically addicted to the game, but once I got to the Lighthouse I just stopped. It may have also had to do with how I couldn't beat the last hunt that was available to me at the time. One thing I noticed while playing the game was that there was always something to do... so I guess when I was faced with another annoying dungeon and a hunt that I would have to grind to be able to beat, it was time to stop.

That said, I'd really like to do another playthrough sometime.

[MarsDragon]

I stopped at the lighthouse too, for awhile, then finally forced myself to finish the damn thing. The boss battle at the end is pretty awesome, but fuck that dungeon was way too long.

Then I did some hunts and stopped because there was only so many times I could slowly wander around trying to find a big monster, whack at the monster with swords for an hour or so, then finally get it to die. Now that I finally want to play it again my PS2 is beyond my reach. Curse fate and forgetfulness!