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[Kazz]

When you compare chicken farms to concentration camps, I mean, yes, on some level, that's sort of valid, but no amount of reason will keep it from being a terrible thing to bring up.

And nobody will ever convince me that it is out-and-out wrong for humans to eat meat.  Dimastines is the only person who has ever come close, and that's only because he's rad.

[Detonator]

When you compare chicken farms to concentration camps, I mean, yes, on some level, that's sort of valid, but no amount of reason will keep it from being a terrible thing to bring up.

Yeah, and have we so quickly forgotten the Delicious Flesh thread?  That ad was pretty tasteless.

[Spaco]

So I was reading about a Food Not Bombs event where they serve vegetarian food to the homeless, and it had me wondering if that was really in their best interests, with relation to food-production cost and general nutrition/protein/heartiness concerns. Thoughts?

[Arc]

When you compare chicken farms to concentration camps, I mean, yes, on some level, that's sort of valid, but no amount of reason will keep it from being a terrible thing to bring up.

For reals. Concentration camps at least manufactured useful products. /glib

So I was reading about a Food Not Bombs event where they serve vegetarian food to the homeless, and it had me wondering if that was really in their best interests, with relation to food-production cost and general nutrition/protein/heartiness concerns. Thoughts?

Specifics? What are you getting at?

[Alex]

I'm with Det on seconding Sharkey's notion.  Implications that I'm Lyrai some sort of crazy monster lurking in my basement, rubbing my hands together deviously as I imagine the number of ways I'm going to kill a turkey for Thanksgiving really just makes me that much more inclined to stuff my omnivore face with delicious meats.

Otherwise my personal experiences with PETA beyond their stupid delightful advertising is the same as Lyrai's.  Having a crazy person interrupt my lunch because it's clear that I'm eating a beef hoagie just pisses me right off.

Oh, gah, the GYWO archives were impossible to navigate before and now they're literally impossible to navigate.  Just pretend I managed through some inhuman effort to dig up the panel where the one guy wonders aloud if people would stop driving if they had to literally fill up their cars with the liquified bones of murdered children.

Only if it got good mileage or was cheaper than regular gas.

[Misha]

Meat is good, cruelty is bad. I have no problem with humane slaughterhouses.

Also, what exactly is PETA expecting to happen to all the animals should they succeed? Do they honestly believe we'll be able to release all the cows and pigs into the wild and everything will be fine?

[Alex]

It's perfectly okay if their NATURAL predators kill them and eat them!

[Arc]

Do they honestly believe we'll be able to release all the cows and pigs into the wild and everything will be fine?

Covered in the last thread. Population numbers wouldn't be as high as the breeding industries are phased out, thus becoming manageable.

[Brentai]

In the interest of full disclosure, who here has or has had involvement with PETA?

My only interaction was a crazy person shoving one of those buckets of blood in my face as I walked by a KFC and screaming something in half-spanish at me (This was in Texas)

They were scumming around CU campus pretty much 24/7, because CU was one of those places.  Probably still are, if not moreso.

The shock factor is not something that's popped up in the last 4 years.  They've always done shit like that, setting up obscene videos of slaughter houses right in the visitors' food court and such.  I always wanted to ask if I could play something like Zombie Holocaust out in public like that.  I guess as the ratio of carnage-to-content approaches 100% you pass out of the uncanny valley of obscenity.

They were as well-known as liberal extremists then as they are now, and were for at least ten years before that.  If there really is a sudden spike in popularity you can either chalk it up to either a very exaggerated backlash against America's conservatives, or just the fact that they get quite a lot of American Idols agreeing to shill for them now.

[Kazz]

If they do release all the livestock, I imagine it'd be acceptable to hunt them for food on your own, wouldn't it?

Not that there's much sport in hunting a cow.  In fact, it sounds more like a chore.  Something I'd pay someone else to do.

In fact, I bet someone could make quite a living, rounding up the cows and killing them.  Maybe they could even prepare the beef.

Frankly, it'd be more efficient at that point just to capture some and breed your own...

[Arc]

It's the underlying concept: no animal research, no human medicine.

The underlying concept was hypocrisy, but absent the advent of time travel, that isn't the case here. This nation was built upon slavery and manifest destiny, yet are we to endorse those actions by enjoying the fruits which have come about? Secondly, no animal research, no human medicine? Embryonic stem cells? Cells grown in culture? Human skin models? Cadavers? Patch tests? These methods have gained leaps and bounds in prominence compared to animal testing over the last century, due in part to reliability and costs. Animal testing has proven that it isn't full-proof, causing adverse reactions within humans, and leading to numerous products being removed from the shelves.

Maybe PETA should dedicate itself to developing it

Reiterating that alternatives are developed, and that we're dealing with an advocacy and awareness group that highlights them.

To me it seemed like they were just pointing out that PETA ends up killing the majority of the animals that they save. Open or not, something's not quite right.

Once again, on the national scale, three out of four animals are saved through PETA. Critics are selective with state - by - state numbers by cherry-picking various years in which the majority could not be saved, when instead a better usage of time would be in finding common ground in this area.

P.S. funneling tens of thousands of dollars to a convicted ALF arsonist. Nor was this an isolated incident.

Thanks for the link. These individuals are known as 'ex-ALF', but considering ALF is merely a concocted association (see also: the origin of Al-Qaeda), it could be difficult to parse that point. Notice how these funds were used? Legal defense for a multitude of cases leading to a mixture of guilty and non-guilty verdicts.

Is the sum of an organization the perceived low-point of its history? One is reminded of the Oil-for-Food Programme. Is the entirety the United Nations to be condemned for such mistakes? Logically, no. The baby does not follow along with the bath water, as the positives trounce the negatives by remarkable factors.

[Mongrel]

If they do release all the livestock, I imagine it'd be acceptable to hunt them for food on your own, wouldn't it?

Not that there's much sport in hunting a cow.  In fact, it sounds more like a chore.  Something I'd pay someone else to do.

In fact, I bet someone could make quite a living, rounding up the cows and killing them.  Maybe they could even prepare the beef.

Frankly, it'd be more efficient at that point just to capture some and breed your own...

Winnar.

[Detonator]

Arc, I appreciate you taking the time to argue in this thread, but could you refute, acknowledge, or agree with our assessments that PETA has a terrible public relations problem, and they should be trying harder to fix that?  Whether it's their fault or not, it's pretty telling when a board such as ours can only find one person willing to stand up for them (note: the same number of members willing to stand up for George W Bush).

[Spaco]

About the veggies for the homeless, I was just thinking couscous might not stick to the ribs like meatloaf would for someone who doesn't get regular, hearty meals.

[Arc]

Arc... could you refute, acknowledge, or agree with our assessments that PETA has a terrible public relations problem...

In regards to their public relations and the effects thereof, I've highlighted their booming membership several times. The Humane Society works as a logical contrast, with a membership total fives times as large. However, they benefit from three decades more of activeness, services that require more locations and ground operations, a mission statement covering children in addition to animals, and an overall moderate message by comparison.

... a board such as ours can only find one person willing to stand up for them...

Pacobird also advocated on their behalf. Taking into account the unfounded rumors that actively work to demonize the group, having even two among us could be seen as surprising.

About the veggies for the homeless, I was just thinking couscous might not stick to the ribs like meatloaf would for someone who doesn't get regular, hearty meals.

The homeless & poor of this nation are less threatened by portion sizes, and more by the nutritional values of their intake. Cancer, heart disease, and high cholesterol are central problems among these groups, who are not afforded access to a healthy balance of protein & nutrients.

[Pacobird]

Should I reconsider my stance on US involvement in the middle east because I drive a car?

I'm not in the "stop medical studies on animals" camp.  But I AM in the "get people to think about where their pills come from" one.

I would say it's less "reconsider" and more simply "consider".

I DO think about where the gas in my tank comes from and where it's going when I drive.  It's one of many incentives for me to ride my bike wherever possible.

Was responding to DGorgon.  Sorry friend~

EDIT: Again, PETA is not a terrorist organization bent on freeing all the animals from their cages and blowing up research facilities.  Certainly there are extremists in an organization of 2 million people, but the stated goal is not animal liberation, like the ALF; it is ethical treatment of animals.  Their purpose is to simultaneously push an agenda of humane treatment of animals by large corporations and encourage individuals to consider the moral ramifications of Western lifestyles towards animals and adjust their behavior accordingly.  They are no different than any other public interest advocacy group, except their PR puts a premium on personal moral responsibility, which I find a refreshingly honest and forthright position for an American Left organization to take.

T Lyrai: I am not a member of PETA, although I have donated money to them in the past and I actually AM a member of the ASPCA.

[Pacobird]

Or you know, it could just be that an organization made up of people whose life work is to prevent cruelty to animals we eat - in a world where cruelty to humans is still almost as prevalent - isn`t made up of particularly bright individuals.

PETA`s goals are just for the most part in my mind, but their sense of urgency seems a little misplaced to me.

It is precisely this attitude that PETA was formed to address.  Do you think PETA members are not also members of other organizations, like the ACLU?  Hell, an old roommate of mine was a member of PETA and the NRA.  It is possible to put your energy towards multiple causes, and truth be told, most of the PETA members I know openly acknowledge animal treatment is far from the most pressing issue facing the Left today, but PETA does what they do because the fact that humans aren't being hurt doesn't make animal abuse any less wrong, and they are trying to make sure nobody forgets that.

[Thad]

Majesco responds.

    [Of 51 total recipes] Cooking Mama World Kitchen includes more than 25 vegetarian-friendly recipes including delicious breakfast, dinner, dessert and snack options.  And, while Mama is not a vegetarian, she fully supports the humane treatment of animals, particularly for her canine protégé Max who makes his doggie debut in World Kitchen.

[Brentai]

PETA: We actually don't hate Cooking Mama and would totally dig a vegetarian one.

Well, that's fair.

[Zaratustra]

It's perfectly okay if their NATURAL predators kill them and eat them!

Modern livestock has no natural predators any more than your house cat has natural predators. It's a biorg that's been mutated to be fatter, stupider and less aggressive than its forebears. Aurochsen were two feet taller than modern cows and had horns the size of your arm.

If PETA wants to really make an impression, they could mention that livestock pastures are the main reason for the destruction of the amazonian rainforest, and the sheer scale of livestock rearing is so huge that cow farts are contributing to global warming.

I know it depresses me.