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[Brentai]

Cow farts make you hot.

[Detonator]

In regards to their public relations and the effects thereof, I've highlighted their booming membership several times.

I guess I can't argue with results, though it's unfortunate that their advertisements may be alienating many more potential members.

Taking into account the unfounded rumors that actively work to demonize the group, having even two among us could be seen as surprising.

I haven't cited any of those false smears in my argument, only the Canadian bus killing ad.  You can't blame smear groups for what the organization itself puts out.  Maybe they need stuff like that for publicity, but I still don't agree with it.

[PhoenixUltima]

My main beef qualm with PETA is that they believe that animals deserve the same status as humans. Now, I do realize that animals can feel base emotions, and they probably don't appreciate being killed. But they're not humans. They don't think for themselves. They don't feel complex emotions like pity and remorse. They're not capable of using logic. I'm all for animals being treated humanely, regardless of their final destination, but I don't agree that eating meat makes me some kind of horrible monster who enjoys killing sentient beings for my own benefit, and that's where PETA loses me. That, and their blatant propaganda tactics, like Evil Cooking Mama or those "Your parents KILL ANIMALS!" comics. I don't care what the cause is, shit like that is over the line.

[Pacobird]

My main beef qualm with PETA is that they believe that animals deserve the same status as humans. Now, I do realize that animals can feel base emotions, and they probably don't appreciate being killed. But they're not humans. They don't think for themselves. They don't feel complex emotions like pity and remorse. They're not capable of using logic. I'm all for animals being treated humanely, regardless of their final destination, but I don't agree that eating meat makes me some kind of horrible monster who enjoys killing sentient beings for my own benefit, and that's where PETA loses me. That, and their blatant propaganda tactics, like Evil Cooking Mama or those "Your parents KILL ANIMALS!" comics. I don't care what the cause is, shit like that is over the line.

Intentionally.  Inflammatory.  Rhetoric.

[Kazz]

The thing is, the sort of people who get into that organization may start out with reasonable goals regarding humane treatment of livestock, but they will talk to each other and hype themselves up and come to believe wholeheartedly that they are crusaders of justice, speaking for those who can't speak at all, attempting to save them from their terrible fates at the hands of everybody else in the world.  And that's when they put out ads about what a fuck-up you are for eating meat.

As for the "humans on the same level as animals" thing, I actually agree.

 

[Pacobird]

This is the part you guys aren't acknowledging, though.  If the rhetoric offends your delicate sensibilities, fine, but what PETA has actually accomplished in terms of policy shifts in corporate culture and charitable work such as animal shelters speaks a different story entirely.  See above, RE: free range livestock (i.e., PETA engaging and working with people who raise animals to be eaten) and shelter euthanization (" " " " " " who put animals to death).

[PhoenixUltima]

I'm not saying PETA doesn't do good work, I'm just saying they could stand to not be such jerks about it.

[Kazz]

That's what they said about Gandhi.

[Arc]

My main beef qualm with PETA is that they believe that animals deserve the same status as humans.

The same status of not being cramped into cages, bred simply to further breed and die.

Now, I do realize that animals can feel base emotions, and they probably don't appreciate being killed. But they're not humans. They don't think for themselves. They don't feel complex emotions like pity and remorse. They're not capable of using logic.

A multitude of animals think for themselves, think with their pack, think with their offspring in mind, and clearly use base logic.

Your parents KILL ANIMALS!" comics.

"I learned it from watching you, Dad!"

they will talk to each other and hype themselves up and come to believe wholeheartedly that they are crusaders of justice

They are. This is, as you say, a worldwide movement, not a deliberation on the PTA's bake sale next week.

[Kazz]

We're bred for even less of a purpose than the animals.  Also, we often die.

[Fredward]

Also we spend most of our lives crammed in things. Beds, cars, chairs, etc etc...

[Thad]

If PETA wants to really make an impression, they could mention that livestock pastures are the main reason for the destruction of the amazonian rainforest, and the sheer scale of livestock rearing is so huge that cow farts are contributing to global warming.

...I would be pretty fucking surprised if they haven't.

My main beef qualm with PETA is that they believe that animals deserve the same status as humans.

[James Edward Smith]

I do think that everyone should have to slaughter a cow or pig or something once and then butcher it properly and cook it. The disconnect that we have from our food is sort of bordering on surreal to me. I don't have any problem eating meat, it's delicious, but I have started moderating it a bit. My parents basically have a piece of meat in every meal they eat, day in and day out. I don't think that's really necessary or healthy, or morally appropriate. I like to at least try to show some respect for the lesser animals I consume for pleasure.

The excesses of our North American culture are vulgar and unsettling to me.

[Mongrel]

You know, to go back to the original topic...

This whole argument amuses the shit out of me. Imagine this same board and these same people, only replace PETA with [random activist civic group] and Cooking Mama with Team Fortress 2.

Vidja game is immoral, plz discuss.

[Mongrel]

I do think that everyone should have to slaughter a cow or pig or something once and then butcher it properly and cook it. The disconnect that we have from our food is sort of bordering on surreal to me. I don't have any problem eating meat, it's delicious, but I have started moderating it a bit. My parents basically have a piece of meat in every meal they eat, day in and day out. I don't think that's really necessary or healthy, or morally appropriate. I like to at least try to show some respect for the lesser animals I consume for pleasure.

The excesses of our North American culture are vulgar and unsettling to me.

INTARNETS R SRS BIZNESS REPLY:

This is close to my thinking. Similarly to Kazz, I too believe we are animals. But I also believe that we are living creatures period. This includes bugs, plants, and even the planet itself. The whole goddamn universe and everything in it is alive to one degree or another.

I always find the human attempt to make petty distinctions like "sentient thought", "can feel pain", "is not made of rocks", etc. to be a very human thing on many levels. We're trying to control things in a way, by categorizing them. A sort of mental divide-and-conquer. But really, we're all in this together [insert cliche of your choice here].

Any attempt to make some moral argument about the evils of simply eating meat (leaving aside the source) is to deny the entire life-cycle of most creatures. A good proportion of the things on this planet either consume other living creatures or are consumed by them. At the same time, I think anything that is unnecessary should be avoided. This includes excessive meat consumption, frivolous killing, or wanton cruelty, be it pond scum or cows. But there are simply times when some killin' must take place. Not just with regards to eating meat, but to harvest grains or other vegetables as well. If a mosquito bites me, or roaches invade my apartment I squish them, as they are predators to me (directly or indirectly) and certainly I should defend myself.

Really, I think extremes are what's really the issue - they're silly and dangerous things. It has generally been shown that the most efficient diet for humans is a generally vegetarian diet with a small but reasonable amount of meat. Not only is this best overall for human health, but it is best for the planet, as marginal land should be used for grazing rather than farming.

That said, I have no issue whatsoever with vegtarianism as a dietary choice. Yes, it leans a bit towards a supposed extreme, but only in a small way and the modern world has provided options that make such a choice easier than ever. And humans are closer to being vegetarians to being carnivores (you don't see too many people arguing THAT, now do you?). And without some deviation from an imaginary unobtainable middle line, we'd have a terribly homogenous, boring life. It's only when people start screaming about things, or get really crazy in their diets (like Sproutarians or other kooks) that things become objectionable. 

[/blahblahfuckin'blah]

[Mongrel]

P.S. i r an animist shaman in a prmitive soceitey LULZ



P.P.S. omg how kin i use intarnets?

[Royal☭]

1) Keep in mind who spreads the "PETA IS A BUNCH OF RABID FREAKS" line.  I'll give you a hint, his name rhymes with Rush Limbaugh.  Okay, I lied.  That wasn't a rhyme.

2) My main beef with PETA is not that I don't support the ethical treatment of animals, it's that I'd rather focus on the ethical treatment of other people right now.

[Thad]

1) Guilt by association
2) Implication that two things are mutually exclusive that are actually not

[Royal☭]

1) I'm just saying that's where the majority of the PETA hate comes from.
2) Eh, if I'm going to spend my time and energy doing something to improve the world, I want it to be for something I care about.

[Lady Duke]

I'd just like to say that I got the cutest stickers ever from a PETA booth at collegefest in Boston last spring.  They have sad cute animal drawings that say stuff like "Don't make me a fashion victim" and "I am not a nugget."  Stuff like that doesn't bother me about them, but their fucked up other ways of trying to get people to agree to ethical treatment for animals is just plain stupid.