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Author Topic: The Magically Flawed World of Disney  (Read 32784 times)

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Büge

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2008, 09:24:47 PM »

*sigh* I'll have the essay on your desk in the morning, Mr. Boyd.
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Arc

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2008, 09:26:59 PM »

Also, Kimba means 'dung-heap.'

Thankfully, his original Japanese name was Leo.

:america: My bad!


~ Be Prepared ~
Quote
http://www.animated-news.com/archives/00001715.html

Rob Minkoff mentioned that Jeremy Irons smoked even while he sang, then gave an impression of Irons smoking/singing the villainous song Be Prepared, and his impersonation drew uproarious laughter from everyone in attendance.

:lol: Gentlemen!
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Misha

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2008, 09:55:06 PM »

Mulan had some good use of CGI and was also awesome.
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LaserBeing

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:04 PM »

Quote
Someone asked who Nala's father was and Rob Minkoff jokingly said that Roger Allers was. After the joke, Rob said they didn't think anybody would ever pay attention to that but that it was likely to be Scar or Mufasa

Yeah. There's a reason young male lions don't actually inherit their fathers' "kingdoms" in real life. Scar driving Simba out into the wasteland is pretty much what is supposed to happen.
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Thad

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2008, 10:39:11 PM »

Moving back:

The 60s is when a cartoon character couldn't go 10 seconds before howling and splaying his limbs all over, right?  Fuck that time.

The Ariel-to-Simba era, though cheesy, is pretty much the pinnacle of animation, and you're not likely to see it again any time soon.

That's a broad damned claim to make, even if we're just focusing on Disney.  (I'm more of a Warner fan myself; if I were to pick a "pinnacle of animation" I'd go for 1940's Termite Terrace, but then I'd say what about 1930's Fleischer Brothers, or this or that or the other; you can't really pin something like that down.)  IM's already gone over the subjectivity of which style of body movement is "better" (ranging from John K's "everything has to be totally over-the-top or why bother?" to some fuckwit critic's claim a couple years ago that Monster House's mocap made the entire history of animation up to that point obsolete), as well as line style.  And of course things like genre and tone are essential to why a style works -- The Jungle Book's a pretty different damn movie from The Lion King, despite similar settings.

If we're talking about cold technical precision, you may be right, but your comments on CG ruining everything by being too perfect and not human enough pretty clearly indicate that you're not.
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LaserBeing

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2008, 11:22:04 PM »

My actual favourite Disney film from a purely visual standpoint is Bambi, although Sleeping Beauty is a close second.
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Arc

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2008, 02:17:50 AM »

Discovered while searching out for a topic icon, Runaway Brain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhhS_JFhpPg

Artists employed by Disney were given explicit instructions never to make Mickey appear evil (despite his origins), making this particular production of a raving Mickey Mouse intent on raping the shit outta Minnie Mouse all the more unique.

Then we have Toy Box Series, Episode 3: Picture Book 1936:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHFmwbnweR8

Quote
... A 1934 propaganda film about a future (1936) conflict started by a swarm of evil, bat-riding Mickey Mouse clones that descend on a tiny island inhabited by peace-loving dolls and cats (including a Felix lookalike). Overwhelmed by the attack, the desperate island residents bang on the cover of a large picture book to enlist the help of Momotaro, Urashima Taro (the Japanese version of Rip Van Winkle), and other traditional fairy tale heroes and characters. After Urashima Taro uses his famous “mystery box” to turn the big Mickey into a decrepit old fogey, Hanasaka Jiisan makes the cherry trees bloom and the cats and dolls celebrate by dancing to “Tokyo Ondo” (an old Japanese folk song). The soundtrack also includes renditions of the Momotaro song and Gunkan March (”Warship March”), a song that is nowadays typically played at pachinko parlors.

Symbolism and history on the characters used in the piece can be found in the comments.
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Zaratustra

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2008, 03:06:58 AM »

if I were to pick a "pinnacle of animation" I'd go for 1940's Termite Terrace, but then I'd say what about 1930's Fleischer Brothers, or this or that or the other; you can't really pin something like that down.)

Just go to john kricfalusi's blog and watch him ramble about how merrie melodies from 1930 to 1950 are the best cartoons ever and everything is a pale imitation thereof because they're not slinky enough

Edit: Oh I just went there and he's substantiating a few of his claims. I still hold that the reason there is no good animation is because the indie animation effort is still too young, like the indie gaming movement (which is just beginning to deconstruct the medium). That's where you're going to see innovation, or at least variation.

tl;dr: PEOPLE THAT WANT MONEY DON'T TRY TO INNOVATE

LaserBeing

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2008, 03:51:43 AM »

Kricfalusi obviously loves animation a lot, but he has a very narrow definition of what animation should be, and he's incredibly obnoxious about his point of view.

Also I'm not sure why you'd say something like "there's no good animation". That's like looking only at the shit that comes out of Hollywood every year and saying there are no good movies. Animation has been around as long as film has, the only reason for not finding the good stuff is that you're not looking hard enough.

Some of the stuff that I'm most interested in these days is the amazing work from Russia that's just starting to become available, particularly by Yuri Norstein. There's a whole alternate history of animation in that country that's been more or less hidden from the West for the past half-century.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRsXU4Q6a0Q

Up here in Northrend we've had an independent animation scene for years and years thanks to the National Film Board. If you want to see some really crazy experimental shit just try looking up Norman McLaren.
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Romosome

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2008, 04:01:42 AM »

I remember seeing commercials for Runaway Brain on TV as a kid.  It was fairly heavily promoted and it's interesting to see how it's kind of hushed up now, due to (somewhat understandable) second thoughts on Disney's part.
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LaserBeing

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2008, 04:12:11 AM »

I saw Runaway Brain in theatres in front of whatever the fuck movie it was attached to, I can't even remember. I was pretty impressed with it at the time.
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Romosome

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2008, 04:17:20 AM »

Wiki says it was either A Kid In King Arthur's Court in 1995, or two years later in front of George of the Jungle.
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Arc

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2008, 04:18:14 AM »

Quote from: wiki
It was released on August 11, 1995 attached to the feature A Kid in King Arthur's Court and was re-released on July 16, 1997 in front of Disney's live-action remake of George of the Jungle. In international theaters, it was shown preceding A Goofy Movie... The short was released on DVD in the Walt Disney Treasures collection Mickey Mouse in Living Color, Vol. 2.

Disney has censored and 'hidden' away many of their own works, but this one was given a fair shake.

EDIT: Romohoussse!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-nviaWnxwo

:HUGE: What the hell was that!?!
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LaserBeing

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2008, 04:20:58 AM »

two years later in front of George of the Jungle.

Ugh. That's embarrassing.
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Royal☭

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2008, 08:25:38 AM »

That's the film I saw it before!  Now I remember.  It entertained me as a child, but now that I'm older I can better get the reference, such as the one to Exorcist.  Also, that's Jim Cummings as Julius/Raving Mickey there, who can do brilliant work with grunts, howls, and other vocal signals.

LaserBeing

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2008, 09:43:06 AM »

Well Julius is "played" by Peg-Leg Pete, who's been voiced by Cummings since 1992, so no surprise there.
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Thad

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2008, 12:20:43 PM »

Just go to john kricfalusi's blog and watch him ramble about how merrie melodies from 1930 to 1950 are the best cartoons ever and everything is a pale imitation thereof because they're not slinky enough

I'm well aware of John K's opinions and agree with them up to a point.  I love the same stuff he loves, and I hate SOME of the stuff he hates.  But I think there's room for more than one kind of cartoon, damn it.

I still hold that the reason there is no good animation is because the indie animation effort is still too young, like the indie gaming movement (which is just beginning to deconstruct the medium). That's where you're going to see innovation, or at least variation.

tl;dr: PEOPLE THAT WANT MONEY DON'T TRY TO INNOVATE

Something John K certainly knows firsthand after seeing Ren and Stimpy taken away from him because it wasn't Nickelodeon-y enough.

I read an interview with Groening a few years back where he gushed about Adult Swim.  I doubt if there's a single cartoon on there that would pass John K's standards, but Groening's recognized it as a place where people are throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks, and management isn't interfering because it costs so little.  Of course, Groening's always been friendlier to low-budget efforts than John K.

...I've actually always sort of wondered what John K's opinion was on Jay Ward.  I assume he's a fan of Rocky and Bullwinkle despite its low production values, as he slapped the traditional "J" in as Stimpy's middle initial.

All that said, my typical reaction on seeing most of the current cartoons on Nickelodeon, CN, and Disney is "Ugh, that's HIDEOUS."  But I think in the long term, the cream's going to rise to the top and the shit's going to be forgotten.
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Brentai

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2008, 12:35:48 PM »

Avatar's still a gem in the muck, though.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2008, 12:43:08 PM »

...I've actually always sort of wondered what John K's opinion was on Jay Ward.  I assume he's a fan of Rocky and Bullwinkle despite its low production values, as he slapped the traditional "J" in as Stimpy's middle initial.

Well, he loved the earlier Rocky & Bullwinkle, but was less-than-pleased with the later stuff.
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Doom

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Re: The Magically Flawed World of Disney
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2008, 01:37:41 PM »

Quote
But I think there's room for more than one kind of cartoon, damn it.

I like that he had to turn off comments for one of his posts in which he equated Batman: The Animated Series with overly symmetrical copy/paste clap-trap the likes of Scooby Doo. Oops!
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