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[Detonator]

Disassociate the game from your Steam account and one friend you designate gets a discount when they buy it. Steam still gets money, you still get right of first sale. The discount is likely to be small, of course.

The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained.

By your system, I still cannot sell or give away my game: I can only sacrifice it to give a discount to my friend.  How in the hell does that satisfy my first sale right?

[TA]

Disassociate the game from your Steam account and one friend you designate gets a discount when they buy it. Steam still gets money, you still get right of first sale. The discount is likely to be small, of course.

... don't really get that right not really at all in that scenario, though.  The right of first sale is specifically to do whatever you want with your purchased copy of an intellectual property, including full-on resale.  Depending how you want to look at that, either you're limited to trading your copy for a coupon code you can sell, or you're selling your copy of the game but required to give Valve the lion's share of the money for doing so.  Either way, the right isn't present.

[Thad]

Hi, TA!  Where have you been?  I've been arguing your point for most of the thread!

[TA]

Varyingly in court, preparing for court, and watching you say exactly what I'd been trying to say?

[Disposable Ninja]

Either Valve stops saying that we are buying games when we aren't, or they take off the protections that prevent consumers from exercising their right of first sale.

I'd argue that merely not facilitating the sale of otherwise unsellable items is not the same as denying the right of first sale.

[Detonator]

Either Valve stops saying that we are buying games when we aren't, or they take off the protections that prevent consumers from exercising their right of first sale.

I'd argue that merely not facilitating the sale of otherwise unsellable items is not the same as denying the right of first sale.

They are only unsellable because Valve is purposefully instituting a system to prevent you from doing so.  If they lifted the DRM restrictions, you could not claim the games are unsellable.  They do not have to create a system to let you sell it, they have to stop making purchases inextricably tied to your account.

[Thad]

Varyingly in court, preparing for court, and watching you say exactly what I'd been trying to say?

Well, good, because I kind of thought I was flailing there a little but apparently I know about law and stuff.

They are only unsellable because Valve is purposely instituting a system to prevent you from doing so.  If they lifted the DRM restrictions, you could not claim the games are unsellable.  They do not have to create a system to let you sell it, they have to stop making purchases inextricably tied to your account.

Yeah DN, saying files are non-transferrable by default is sorta ass-backwards.

[Romosome]

Just because you're legally allowed to sell things you've purchased does not mean Valve is under any legal obligation to facilitate it.  Their system just doesn't work that way.

[TA]

It does mean they're under a legal obligation not to construct and operate their system to specifically prevent it, though.

[Disposable Ninja]

Okay, I guess the thing I'm having trouble wrapping my pea-sized brain around is... how would this work, exactly? If it's not done through Steam, isn't it essentially pirating software? Do you just send your buyer the program and, what, promise to delete it on your computer?

[Thad]

Yeah DN, saying files are non-transferrable by default is sorta ass-backwards.

Just because you're legally allowed to sell things you've purchased does not mean Valve is under any legal obligation to facilitate it.  Their system just doesn't work that way.

It does mean they're under a legal obligation not to construct and operate their system to specifically prevent it, though.

...Groundhog Day was LAST week, dammit.

[Mongrel]

I really think that steam cleaning is only appropriate when your carpet is really dirty. I mean those machine rentals cost hella money and almost no grocery stores have them anymore. It's a goddamn pain in the ass.

Usually a vacuum works fine and failing that some Simple Green and elbow grease will go a long way. I mean, I have cats, I know a thing or three about carpet stains.

[Thad]

Okay, I guess the thing I'm having trouble wrapping my pea-sized brain around is... how would this work, exactly? If it's not done through Steam, isn't it essentially pirating software? Do you just send your buyer the program and, what, promise to delete it on your computer?

This brings up a question that's been percolating in the back of my head for several pages now:

How much piracy do you guys REALLY think derives from "Guy legally purchases game, then installs it, then sells the CD" scenarios?

Do you really think a guy who's already legally purchased the game is more likely to abuse the system than, say, somebody who just torrented it in the first damn place (which -- and I cannot stress this enough -- anyone can easily do with most games)?

[Detonator]

How much piracy do you guys REALLY think derives from "Guy legally purchases game, then installs it, then sells the CD" scenarios?

Do you really think a guy who's already legally purchased the game is more likely to abuse the system than, say, somebody who just torrented it in the first damn place (which -- and I cannot stress this enough -- anyone can easily do with most games)?

To argue on the other side for once, if there's no DRM, how can one tell if a reselling of a game is from a legitimate copy or a pirated copy?  When you see a pirated DVD for sale, it's pretty obvious it was not legitimately created.  The identicalness of digital distribution erases that.  Would it be the burden of the game companies to find out which sellers legitimately bought their game in the first place?

[JDigital]

Standard "Yes, because people TOTALLY DON'T PIRATE STEAM GAMES ALREADY" response goes here.

But that people use Steam at all implies that some people will pay for games that could be pirated, and would unwittingly buy a "stolen" digital copy. If it was just the games then the thief could simply pirate, but once someone will pay money, your account becomes worth stealing.

[Brentai]

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Brentai]

Seriously Jesus Christ I think someone needs to write like a synopsis of what the fuck we are talking about that everybody must read before posting in this thread.

Maybe have to take a test too.

[Disposable Ninja]

I'm still looking for an explanation on how it DOES work.

[Kashan]

You know if you made a new account for every game you downloaded you could probably just sell your account. It wouldn't surprise me if something in the user agreement bans that, and there's the sheer inconvenience of keeping each game on a separate account, but it seems to me if valve were committed to one playable version of a game per sale, you could do some alternate version of that but where the check for drm was separate from your account.

[JDigital]

Here's how it works.

Lets suppose Valve lets you sell or gift games to each other in order to allow your right of resale. There's a flurry of activity as people want to get rid of their old games, either for cash or in free trade with friends. Gabe Newell is happy.

Until, that is, a hacker compromises his Steam account. He logs in one Monday to find that over the weekend, somebody donated away all his games to another account. He has staff close that account, only to find that several thousand dollars worth of games have already been sold to unwitting players who assumed they were buying legitimately.

Valve a hold on the account's funds transfer, but it's too late - most of the money is already gone from the Valve system and is on its way to a bank account in Nigeria.

Now, even if holds are placed to allow only one trade per game each month, there's still high reward in raiding inactive accounts.