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Author Topic: The Power of the Dark Side  (Read 8646 times)

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Arc

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The Power of the Dark Side
« on: February 08, 2009, 04:29:30 AM »

Valentine's Day is coming soon, enabling Y chromosome cheerleaders to hit the talk circuit. "Down with tradition! Down with expected generosity!" they cry. The likes of Marc Rudov and Dick Masterson grace the screen, spewing their viewpoints out, as wide-eyed female news anchors listen on in utter disbelief.

I find myself agreeing with these men 50% of the time.

Then Rudov rattles off pieces of flawed logic, Masterson announces that all women are whores, and their arguments fall apart like clockwork. Every female talking head, without fail, jabs in some line about how Rudov / Masterson have never had a date. Smug faces, all-around. If we're ever to have an honest dialogue regarding sexism as a two-way street, the hyperbole needs a swift penis kicking / vagina punching.

The issues of men have been pigeonholed into the Conservative spectrum. With dunderheads such as these acting as representatives, this won't change anytime soon. And so, I find myself from time to time defending viewpoints labeled as those that I despise, bringing me to the central question of this thread.

In what ways are you Conservative?

Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside you secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king.
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Norondor

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2009, 04:53:09 AM »

Conservative? No. Brutal, leftist Authoritarian? Card-carrying, and unrepentant.

I don't know. There are probably some issues i am strongly conservative on, but largely it is my belief that in the march towards progress, knowledge, and equality, the human race must resist the fearful, animal urge to stop and say "hither, but no further."
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Mongrel

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2009, 05:19:21 AM »

So, uh you guys read my posts sometimes, right?
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Arc

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2009, 05:27:31 AM »

Conservative? No. Brutal, leftist Authoritarian? Card-carrying, and unrepentant.

As is the vast majority of our membership, but

There are probably some issues i am strongly conservative on

is the reason for the topic, Matt Damon or not.
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Norondor

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2009, 05:41:32 AM »

Right, i just... i'm having trouble thinking of anything. It'll come to me later, probably.
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Friday

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2009, 06:15:34 AM »

re: sexism

The war between the sexes will never be over precisely because it is a war, with both sides attempting to conquer the other and enslave them to their desires.

If, instead, it became the dialog or peace talks between sexes, if you will, the "war" could actually come to an end, and true equality could be attained. But nobody wants that. They just want to be superior, and have the opposite gender fucking acknowledge it.

Anyway, what you end up with is a bunch of fem nazis (or the far more common "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" girl) and the other side of the coin pigheaded fagtards who think women are objects.

re: conservatism

I tend to agree with random things from both sides. For example, I am anti-gun control, but pro-choice. I support the death penalty, but despise how horribly we treat our criminals. I hate government like a true republican, but also want socialized medicine and legalized pot.

I guess I just can't make up my mind. like a woman
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Mongrel

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2009, 06:24:39 AM »

Regarding sexism...

I've always been amused at what inter-gender relations fortells for potential relations with non-human sentient species.

Not only did we evolving simultaneouslywith our counterpart genders, but we are actually so closely related that we're locked into a biological partnership required for the survival of either species. The fact that we have had the entire history of our respective species to come to some kind of permanently equitable accommodation and have thus far failed to do so speaks volumes for what awaits this monkey brigade should the unthinkable occur.

...

Don't look at me like that.





























































YESIKNOWWE'RENOTBIOLOGICALLYSEPARATESPECIESOHGODI'MJUSTMAKINGAJOKEJEEZGUYSCOMEON
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Mongrel

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2009, 06:33:02 AM »

My thoughts on capital punshiment should give a small but illumating glimpse on my conservative/liberal viewpoint:

I do believe that sometimes people just need killing. Much as one would put down a mad dog.

I also believe the state cannot be trusted with the power to make such decisions as too many errors can be made.

But I ALSO beleive that individuals cannot be trusted with such decisions in any systemic way as their personal feelings will frequently cloud any objectivity.

But nor can you say 'we will never do this' because that amounts to a cop out and deprives you of options that may be desperately needed at some point.

So in the end, there is no answer - you have to take everything on a case by case basis. 

***

Life is a fluid and organic thing. Attempts to impose our simplistic systems of belief on it usually fail because such things are always falliable. No man can trust an intellectual construct or '-ism' to make his decision-making for him. To do so is to completely abdicate from one's responsibility to think about each and everything we do.

If that sounds hard, well, life is hard. Welcome to the amusment park. All rides close at 5pm.
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Norondor

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2009, 06:35:25 AM »

I guess I just can't make up my mind. like someone who inherited their parents' politics

... well, maybe
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Friday

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2009, 06:38:51 AM »

My mother was a democrat, my father a republican asshole. Off the top of my head, I can't see any correlation between what I think and they think, whether it be the same or the exact opposite or agreeing with mom or agreeing with dad.

Though, well, it's not really possible to come away from your parents unaffected in some way. This probably applies to your political beliefs/opinions as well.
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Norondor

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2009, 06:42:49 AM »

Yeah, no doubt, but mostly i think i've inherited both my mother and father's tolerance for mild criminality if it hurts nobody else. I mean, i ended up inheriting a lot of things from them in terms of political beliefs, and if this thread had existed ten years ago i would be able to think of a lot of things to add, probably, but the bush era has had, er, a transformative effect on my ideologies.
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Kashan

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2009, 07:03:08 AM »

I can't really think of anything I'm conservative about. I'm centrist on a few issues, though that seems to be with issues I don't care too much about. It wouldn't surprise me if I moved left on said issues if I became more passionate about them.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2009, 08:14:36 AM »

I used to think the Death Penalty was just peaches. I'm from Texas, after all. I changed my mind on that later, though. Wrongful convictions and all that.

If Bioshock is an accurate reflection of Objectivism, then I may have a few Objectivist values regarding art. May. Moral Relativism the rest of the way, though.
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Kashan

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2009, 09:26:38 AM »

I used to think the Death Penalty was just peaches. I'm from Texas, after all. I changed my mind on that later, though. Wrongful convictions and all that.

If Bioshock is an accurate reflection of Objectivism, then I may have a few Objectivist values regarding art. May. Moral Relativism the rest of the way, though.

Am I reading this wrong, or did you just Identify moral relativism as your core ethical value? Also curious what you mean about Objectivism in relation to art.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2009, 09:39:26 AM »

No, you didn't read that wrong.

As for the art objectivism; I don't know man. Like I said, I got all my information about objectivism from Bioshock, and I haven't even played that all the way through. Something about not limiting the artist and some people being better?
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Fortinbras

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2009, 09:49:05 AM »

As far as I know I'm the one who's shaped my mother's political beliefs.

Ditto every thing Iron Mongrel said about killing.

There are certain fiscally conservative ideas I'm down with even as I find myself a card carrying socialist.

This thread feels like it's two threads right from the start.  Draw a line through this post here, everything after is below the belt.

A lot of ideals that are typically called feminine are ridiculous to me.  I care about evidence more than feelings, for instance.  But the thing is, so do about as many women as men.  To call something a feminine ideal is a false choice, everyone knows by now that it is, worldview is linked to gender only to the extent it is to race or class, which is to say: to the extent that one group is isolated from the mainstream by others.  As far as I've ever seen anecdotally or in studies we're capable of being startlingly alike in all the ways we think we're different, with difference arising mostly from environment and negatable on a personal basis in cases where a person decides they don't like something about themself and want to change it.

I think you'll find feminists, even ones who are just decent people and don't really self-identify with the movement, are as likely as Rudov or Masterson to say that it's best to go dutch in restaurants and share gifts equally on equal incomes and so on, all basically saying as you said, down with tradition and down with expected generosity, except in the case of female feminists they're doing it at a net loss to the wish-I-were-hypermasculine cable news shit stirrer stooge's gain.

Men who say they don't understand women baffle me.  Inference is that they understand all other men.  Stories about thinking they've learned their lesson from one ended relationship, tried to apply what they learned in another and found it didn't work.  You'd almost thing women were autonomous individuals.  What do women want? is the question that comes up in relation to this.  They want what anyone wants and they want what they as individuals want.

Also: Rudov's website reminds me of the Time Cube while Dick Masterson seems to be an aggressive parody of himself and the news and more retarded viewers aren't in on the joke.  Is this just wishful thinking?  Oh god I hope I don't make the Foxworthy thing come back.
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Kashan

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2009, 10:05:33 AM »

No, you didn't read that wrong.

As for the art objectivism; I don't know man. Like I said, I got all my information about objectivism from Bioshock, and I haven't even played that all the way through. Something about not limiting the artist and some people being better?

I'm not a big fan of moral relativism. Besides some of the basic logical problems, it puts you in a position where you can't actually condemn any action. If you hold to it then you're not in a position to condemn, for instance, rape or murder.
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Misha

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2009, 10:38:11 AM »

I believe morals are relative based on culture, but also believe that practicing moral relativity (IE not condemning or acting against things you believe are immoral because they are from another culture) is immoral. This is similar to my belief on the existence of free will.

morally speaking I think socialism is terrible but I think society as a whole is better off with it. I do not think it is good that the government can take your money at gunpoint and give it to other people, but I think that, to a degree, it is right.

I agree with Iron Mongrel re: death penalty.

I think objectivism gets a ridiculously bad rap. Full on extreme objectivism is indeed a bad thing, but so is the extreme version of almost any ideology. The idea that a man has the right to do what he wants and reap the profits of doing so is not inherently evil. Atlas Shrugged does suck.

Men who say they don't understand women baffle me.  Inference is that they understand all other men.

While the point is heteronormative, it tends to be a lot easier to understand someone "enough" when you just want to be friends than when you want a romantic relationship.
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Fredward

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2009, 11:05:16 AM »

dreth appears to believe strongly in doublethink. :wat:

I don't strongly believe in anything anymore. Since I don't believe in any sort of higher power, I can't find a way to conjure up an absolute morality, and it seems like moral relativism is a copout. So I try to restrict myself from any broad moral judgments on any issue.

Am I right? Probably not. But I'm happy. For now, that's good enough for me.

As for politics, I am in support of any government which is competent, right or left. It seems like it's usually left, though.
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Misha

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Re: The Power of the Dark Side
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2009, 11:10:16 AM »

are you unfamiliar with the concept of neccesary evil?
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