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[Bongo Bill]

BACK ON TOPIC A LITTLE

I won't take any feminists seriously until they demand to be included in selective service.

Yes, because simply opposing the draft for BOTH sexes is impossible. 

One or the other would be fairer, is the point.

[Thad]

And who exactly are these feminists who are arguing otherwise?

[A²]

My encounter with out and out feminists have led me to the conclusion that feminists either A) want all the advantages of being male without any of the disadvantages
or B) Want to make it so men have to drink at the bad water fountain.

[Thad]

...you know, I've known more than a few feminists in my time, and I'm going to say two things:

1. Taking the views of the most extreme fringe of the movement as if they are representative of the group as a whole is wrong;
BUT
2. it's been effective enough that people are so reluctant to call themselves feminists that it could very well become a self-perpetuating stereotype.

When I hear "feminist", I think of the women who fought for the right to vote, the right to work, the right to birth control and choice, and who are still fighting for equal pay.

Some feminists hold extreme views that I find off-putting, or even insulting.  That can be said of absolutely any ideology.  "All heterosexual sex is rape" is not a view held by mainstream feminists (or even most self-described radical feminists), and painting feminism with such a broad brush serves to alienate people who, generally speaking, have a pretty reasonable set of goals.

...that said, when a woman talks to me like I'm an oppressive patriarch, I WILL tell her she must be out of her goddamn mind.

(I will add that this does not happen often.

...and that she also called me a corporate sellout.  And that's where I got the name for my website.

...and also, she's a lesbian with hairy armpits.

...okay, so some people DO fit stereotypes.)

[Brentai]

Yeah, the problem is you're talking about a pretty broad group.  It's pretty much the same as saying "All Democrats want such-and-such" because you're talking about the same rough proportion of the population, i.e. half (the portion of women who do not care about women's rights are more than balanced out by the men who do).

Also, accepting heterosexual sex as natural, equal and healthy is a central tenet of actual feminism.  Calling it rape is more like female sexism.

[Detonator]

Yeah, the problem is you're talking about a pretty broad group.

Yes, I would say that feminists are pretty broads.

[Bongo Bill]

The problem is that political labels all eventually become meaninglessly broad.

[Detonator]

When I hear "feminist", I think of the women who fought for the right to vote, the right to work, the right to birth control and choice, and who are still fighting for equal pay.

I think this is part of the feminist image problem.  The term "feminist" implies someone fighting for something the majority does not believe in, so they assume they are advocating an extremist position.

Most of the issues you listed are no longer considered modern day "feminist" issues, so people assume they are supporting something else.  Equal pay is still being fought, but it's not something the average person would strongly oppose.

[Kazz]

BACK ON TOPIC A LITTLE

I won't take any feminists seriously until they demand to be included in selective service.

Yes, because simply opposing the draft for BOTH sexes is impossible. 

You oppose the draft?

[A²]

I've heard far more insane "Kill all penises" ones call themselves feminists, whereas the sane ones use that term far less. But yeah, I see your point. The loud, vocal minority is the group that fucks it up for everyone.

(This was supposed to go right after Thad's post, but it vanished)

[Brentai]

Well, like Thad said, usage has defined the word to mean the extremist faction.  Sort of how like "conservative" is now inextricably tied to "fundamentalist" even though they should logically be entirely opposite.

[Disposable Ninja]

Personally, I'm willing to cut a bit of slack for the extreme feminists. Over-the-top though their value may be, they'll probably never have an ounce of the power that your average extreme religious fundamentalist has.

[Alex]

Personally, I'm willing to cut a bit of slack for the extreme feminists. Over-the-top though their value may be, they'll probably never have an ounce of the power that your average extreme religious fundamentalist has.

Until they have you chained down with a pair of shears in their hands! 

[Transportation]

Why do you stop a raping?

Because it would not be right by me if I did not stop it.

And why would it not be right by you? Because you think it's wrong?

You are holding the belief that A: all forms of morality are equal and B: you dislike certain morals because they contradict yours (i.e. rape). B contradicts A.

Do you not see the problem of claiming all morals are equal and then treating some differently?

[Disposable Ninja]

As I said before, I don't like rape, and I don't want anybody to experience it. Therefore: I would try to stop it.

Do you not see the problem of claiming all morals are equal and then treating some differently?

Of course I don't see a problem with treating other morals of equal value differently, because nobody has the same morals as me. There are things I don't care about that other people spend their entire lives devoted to, and things important to me that other people outright hate.

Yes, clashes are going to happen. Yes, I will clash with other people.

[JDigital]

Regarding the death penalty: You can't un-execute someone, but then again, you can't un-imprison someone who's served their time.

[Transportation]

Of course I don't see a problem with treating other morals of equal value differently, because nobody has the same morals as me.

I don't think you understand what equal means. I cannot say all humans are equal if I preferential hire whites over blacks without contradicting myself. Nor can I consider blueberry and chocolate muffins equal if my taste buds want blueberry. The 'want' implies preference which shows you do not consider them equal.

[Disposable Ninja]

You're literally try to prove that I'm a hypocrite because I prefer apples to god damn oranges, now?

[Transportation]

what

Explain how I said that. What I'm saying, to use your analogy, is that the statements

Apples == Oranges
and
Apples > Oranges

are mutually exclusive.

[Bal]

I'm not sure where my views on the death penalty put me. I am against it, but not for moral reasons. I firmly believe that there are people in this world we would be better off without, unfortunately the system by which we determine these people is imperfect, and therefore the absolute quality of the death penalty is unacceptable.

I also disagree with the idea that there is a deterrent factor to the death penalty. People put to death should be put to death because they deserve it, but again there's not certain enough method to determine that.