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Author Topic: Effects of Mass  (Read 66890 times)

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Smiler

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #800 on: March 27, 2012, 12:51:37 PM »

Holy crap so apparently the dude who replaces Mordin if he died in ME2 is amazing.

Padok Wiks (slight ME3 spoilers)
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Smiler

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Ziiro

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #802 on: March 27, 2012, 01:15:55 PM »

He's got his pattern of speech down. Every word fits perfectly in his voice.

[spoiler]Wait a minute. Holy shit, why does Javik never talk about the Thorian, now that I think about it?[/spoiler]

Oh, and one of my favorite plot holes so far:
[spoiler]Why didn't they just use the conduit on Virmire to get onto the citadel? I guess they could explain that away, though. The citadel moved, it wasn't a reaper relay that could account for being moved like the Mu Relay.. etc.[/spoiler]
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Beat Bandit

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #803 on: March 27, 2012, 03:27:32 PM »

[spoiler]Virmire[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Ilos? The easy explain away is that it moved, yeah. Though it's been more than tested at points I don't think they've ever outright broken the "relays need direct line of sight" rule.[/spoiler]

Hell, it didn't even have to be a deus ex; tack thirty seconds of scientist dialogue at the end of every Hackett check-in after you've sent scientists over or gotten a new race about how we're learning more about what the Crucible's capabilities are and you've fixed it right there.
pretty bad idea you've got there, bro. [spoiler]No one had any idea what that shit did when they hooked it up. Hell, you found out on the way over to Earth what the power source was, and seemed to plug the thing in the first place it looked like it might fit. I'm not about to say that was the smartest plan for everyone to hinge the universe on, but the scientist thing would just add a dozen new problems.[spoiler]

I'm still waiting for why they're "really good" and why everyone else is not only wrong but "stupid."
I'm trying to do my part with the "wrong", but I never promised anything about stupid (which is weird since you bothered to put it in quotes), you can do that if you'd like.
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jsnlxndrlv

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #804 on: March 27, 2012, 04:11:32 PM »

Hello. Siince I turn 30 in two days i figure there's bbetter than even odds that i'll be getting a computer that doesn't spend 30 seconds choking every time it tries to render mongrel's avatar/sig ccombo, so I think it's safe to end my exile. this post brought to you by the awesome power of the samsung galaxy and At&t.

"War assets" are simultaneously "an elegant solution to a complex problem" and complete bullshit. bioware had an impossible problem at the end of ME2. Player choices needed to be respected and have sroryline signidicance, but no choice from a previous game cojld lock a player out of experiencing any given ME3 gameplay scenario, or take up disproportionate development assets. the ending, the state of the counccil, and Udina vs anderson demonstrates that ME3 wound up being far more ambitious thhan thhey could handle--which is fine, really. i pretty much gave up on bioware's ability to make choices matter after seeing Ashley and kaiden use the same fucking dialog in ME2... despite the fact that both characters needed to be recorded. So, yes, the ending and implementation of the story basically sucked, but it doesn't change the fact that i enjoyed the game, and it certainly doesn't tarnish my appreciation for the second game's suicide mission, even though everything else about that game's main storyline was basically awful.

(doom i am catching up on the ithyan reaches and hope to be able to resume soon)
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Shinra

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #805 on: March 27, 2012, 05:33:05 PM »

I'm sticking to the theory that their veteran, "BioWare Flavor" talent was busy trying to craft 8 campaigns for TOR.

But BioWare does have some lore-consistency problems.

They've gotta have those premium campaigns ready for when TOR goes free to play.
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Shinra

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #806 on: March 27, 2012, 05:49:58 PM »

[spoiler]Virmire[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Ilos? The easy explain away is that it moved, yeah. Though it's been more than tested at points I don't think they've ever outright broken the "relays need direct line of sight" rule.[/spoiler]

Hell, it didn't even have to be a deus ex; tack thirty seconds of scientist dialogue at the end of every Hackett check-in after you've sent scientists over or gotten a new race about how we're learning more about what the Crucible's capabilities are and you've fixed it right there.
pretty bad idea you've got there, bro. [spoiler]No one had any idea what that shit did when they hooked it up. Hell, you found out on the way over to Earth what the power source was, and seemed to plug the thing in the first place it looked like it might fit. I'm not about to say that was the smartest plan for everyone to hinge the universe on, but the scientist thing would just add a dozen new problems.[spoiler]

I'm still waiting for why they're "really good" and why everyone else is not only wrong but "stupid."
I'm trying to do my part with the "wrong", but I never promised anything about stupid (which is weird since you bothered to put it in quotes), you can do that if you'd like.

Honestly, between this and the ToR thread I think you're starting to drink the biodrone kool aid a little too much.
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Beat Bandit

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #807 on: March 27, 2012, 06:33:57 PM »

Yeah, mentioning items from Mass Effect's story and saying TOR has fun game play is the same as sacrificing babies in some cultures.
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Shinra

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #808 on: March 28, 2012, 06:12:59 AM »

it's more the refusal to acknowledge legitimate criticism of either Bioware product, and to go to great leaps of logic to refute that criticism
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Beat Bandit

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #809 on: March 28, 2012, 07:34:13 AM »

Well as soon as I'm done not acknowledging and also... acknowledging but in a bad way, I'll be sure to keep my eyes out for legitimate criticisms from you, Shinra. There has to be one some day.

[spoiler]Pretty sure I've been open about the fact that even though I think each individual ending and the ending as a whole are good, the complete lack of differences between the three is a problem. If you look up you can even acknowledge where I suggested a small fix.[/spoiler] Kind of trying to avoid just talking about if we all just like it though, because that wont get anywhere anytime for anyone. What I have been doing is taking specific references and giving examples from the game as to why I disagree.

I'm sorry, I mean "going to great leaps to refute".
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Ziiro

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #810 on: March 28, 2012, 08:06:57 AM »

[spoiler]Beat Bandit is a Biodrone[/spoiler]
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Beat Bandit

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #811 on: March 28, 2012, 08:17:38 AM »

[spoiler]YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, WE CAN CONTROL ORIGIN[/spoiler]
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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #812 on: March 28, 2012, 09:16:50 AM »

Guys guys I figured it all out.

[spoiler]The synthesis ending leads into Beast Machines. It's cool because the krogan can be like, dinosaurs that turn into tanks, and Joker's hat can turn into an airplane.[/spoiler]
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Büge

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #813 on: March 28, 2012, 10:06:44 AM »

[spoiler]But Beast Machines was a terrible show.[/spoiler]
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Rico

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #814 on: March 28, 2012, 10:12:46 AM »

I'm still waiting for why they're "really good" and why everyone else is not only wrong but "stupid."
I'm trying to do my part with the "wrong", but I never promised anything about stupid (which is weird since you bothered to put it in quotes), you can do that if you'd like.
That's my fault, yes, too many Mass Effect discussions at once.
pretty bad idea you've got there, bro. [spoiler]No one had any idea what that shit did when they hooked it up. Hell, you found out on the way over to Earth what the power source was, and seemed to plug the thing in the first place it looked like it might fit. I'm not about to say that was the smartest plan for everyone to hinge the universe on, but the scientist thing would just add a dozen new problems.[/spoiler]
Yes, the point is that—as the game currently stands—no one had any idea. This is one of the major things that not only shoehorns the game into requiring the deus ex ending but limits its options and time to explain it. In lieu of dumping another hour into the ending spreading it out over the course of the game makes sense in a number of ways. It only makes sense that, even though it's advanced technology, over the course of the best scientists in the galaxy assembling the Crucible they would discover at least anything about what it might do or how. Or they could just add more dialogue as a voiceover during the hour Shepard limps very slowly towards freedom and the ending would stay the same time length!

Again, the main point is that a deus ex machina ending is usually bad and this one is bad for exactly textbook reasons, and further that this could have been largely fixed with a fairly low amount of effort.
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Beat Bandit

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #815 on: March 28, 2012, 11:36:28 AM »

Okay, this is definitely entering the semantics danger space. I totally agree that the idea behind [spoiler]this crazy magical space device being the only hope for the galaxy even though we don't know why is dumb.[/spoiler] I'm willing to let it go because the story of the first game was you were the only person who believed the evil alien overlords that want to wipe out all life (again) basically solely because of a weird dream and the guy actively trying to make you look disreputable admits it to you. I mean obviously it worked out but clearly gathering all the details isn't a big requirement of Shepard's.

Deus Ex Machina though? I don't think so. I mean it certainly fits a literal definition, but I wouldn't hold it to the cop-out connotation of the term that you seem to be. I mean, the entire game you have to [spoiler]finish the crucible, find the catalyst, beat the reapers. When you learn the catalyst is the citadel and the reapers move it the plan gets fleshed out a bit more. New plan: Shepard opens the citadel, the crucible gets hooked up and Shepard activates it. All of that happens. Nothing comes along and changes everything, we're simply given a bit of the what and how (which we agree there could be more of still) and then go about our business.[/spoiler]

Completely seriously I'm curious if this ending would be more or less Deus Ex-y to people
[spoiler] You get the catalyst from Cerberus, it resembles a simple Prothean orb. Returning to the crucible everything is hooked up and Shepard tries to use it, having another vision shot into his head as the Prothean beacons and cipher had. It becomes clear that destroying the Reapers wasn't the original intention of the device, and that you could instead control them. Also, if you were able to gather X amount of war assets, the crucible's design was so perfect it unlocked the potential to merge all organic and synthetic life. All ending cinematics remain the same.[/spoiler]
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DestyNova

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #816 on: March 28, 2012, 07:02:59 PM »

[spoiler] Also show the reason why Joker is flying away. It would take a direct order from Shepard to make him leave the fight.[/spoiler]
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DestyNova

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #817 on: March 29, 2012, 12:54:40 PM »

Can't confirm yet, but Bioware apparently sent away the cupcakes before the devs saw them. :popcorn:
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Ziiro

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #818 on: March 29, 2012, 01:00:27 PM »

The surprise was ruined by the internet.  ::(:
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Lottel

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Re: Effects of Mass
« Reply #819 on: April 01, 2012, 08:45:26 AM »

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