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[Brentai]

Hell yes.

Rebar Crossbow
- No headshots.
+ Pins enemies to wall.
-/+ Victim does not receive a killcam shot of your position, but instead of himself, pinned to the wall.
+ Is a crossbow that shoots rebar.

[King Klown]

Flare: Spies can no longer cloak in the flare'd area.

Some kind of marking tag or something: Target hit by it has a gigantic thing over their head that can be seen anywhere in the map, through walls, etc. Basically "Good luck trying to suprise anyone"

yeah and then their melee weapon unlock can be "raptor strike" or "feign death" or "wing clip" or "tnt proc while in a frost trap that entangles your dk partner every 2 seconds that leads to 10k armor and bop ignoring damage off the global, for no mana, followed by a aim shot right as you come out of my 1 minute cd 10 sec duration cc wyvern sting so that your heals only do half hglhglghglhglghlhlgjhaffhghdkhgdsgdfh"

Someone plays arena!


For the demoman, a machine gun that lobs 6 grenades very quickly; ungodly load time.

[James Edward Smith]

That would be sort of funny if it fired like, a string of dynamite that looked like a string of firecrackers. When you reload it he has to thread in a new strip of them and it's time consuming.

I still like the idea of a flashbang or flashbang launcher for him. Smoke bombs might be interesting too. That or some sort of hilarious bagpipe themed weapon.

Back to the sniper though, some sort of net launcher perhaps?

[A²]

Sniper: Paintball Gun: Targets hit by it have their view obscured for a few seconds.

[Mongrel]

A MANTA RAY

 

[Crouton]

Spy
Plastique: no disable/drain on building's, undetectable, explodes when wrenched, not entirely sure how much damage would be fair
Colt Revolver: -50% damage, no crits from front, 100% crits from behind, dead-on accurate
Blackjack: -25% swing, -25% damage frontal, 3sec stun/100% crit from behind, insta kill on stunned from behind, stun requires 5sec recharge. (essentially, you're still dead if caught from behind, work in tandem with sandman scout to really piss people off)

Demo
Napalm Stickies: -50% damage on detonation, sets anything within splash range on fire for 25 damage (stacks with each bomb, but no change in burn rate), also does 25 burning damage to anyone who walks over them.

[Zaratustra]

Distractor - Spy knife. Crits when target has a status change (fire, slow, stun)

[Beat Bandit]

Blackjack: -25% swing, -25% damage frontal, 3sec stun/100% crit from behind, insta kill on stunned from behind, stun requires 5sec recharge. (essentially, you're still dead if caught from behind, work in tandem with sandman scout to really piss people off)

Oh man, so instead of using this crappy knife that insta-kills if I'm behind someone I get to use a weapon that takes four times as long to kill them and still only works from behind? SIGN ME UP!

[Crouton]

Then stick to your knife, sissy boy.

[Brentai]

Well as long as we're suggesting alternatives to Sniper Rifle that are a whole lot worse than INSTANT KILL...

(That being said, they're not 100% bad ideas... Sniper as a class is about tactically disabling specific units, and being godly with mouseaim shouldn't necessarily be a requirement.  Some sort of weapon that doesn't require such stringent accuracy, but still hampers the target's ability to function, and leaves the normal rifle open as a viable and preferred reward alternative for those who actually have the talent to use it properly, would work just fine.  I'm almost tempted to say he should have some sort of explosion/splash damage hitscan weapon for an alternate, with the Soldier still specializing in critnoobery and midrange combat, but it still feels like he'd be stepping on the Soldier's toes there.)

[Bongo Bill]

Blackjack: -25% swing, -25% damage frontal, 3sec stun/100% crit from behind, insta kill on stunned from behind, stun requires 5sec recharge. (essentially, you're still dead if caught from behind, work in tandem with sandman scout to really piss people off)

I can't think of a single reason to use that instead of the regular knife.

[James Edward Smith]

I find that to be a pretty dumb statement, Brent. I mean, by that logic, why doesn't everyone just play sniper all the time if having an instakill weapon is better than any of our suggested ones?

[Beat Bandit]

Here's a useful version of the blackjack:

25% slower, no instant kill but very high crit damage and insta-crit from behind.(I don't know health values well enough to give numbers), doesn't decloak you.

[Brentai]

I find that to be a pretty dumb statement, Brent. I mean, by that logic, why doesn't everyone just play sniper all the time if having an instakill weapon is better than any of our suggested ones?

Because most people can't hit shit with the sniper rifle.

Except for the people who can, who, as you just might have noticed, do play Sniper all the damned time.

Most of these suggested alternatives don't account for not being able to aim well, they just offer up crappier rewards for doing so.

[James Edward Smith]

I don't think any sniper alt-weapon should ever account for not being able to aim quickly and precisely. The class is what it is and should be kept that way so that its role is intact, I think that's obvious. Just as the Arsonist's Backburner doesn't transform him into a far to medium range combatant and the Overweight's Natasha doesn't give him a sneeky explosive setter, the Assassin's alt weapon needs to retain his class role.

But I think something like my ironsight crossbow or whatever doesn't upset this. It's concept is just to give the sniper an accurate weapon that doesn't cause him to lose as much situational awareness as his main does at the cost of either missile velocity or damage. The fact that someone watched me back stab three snipers in a row who were standing in the same perch a few weeks ago illustrates the advantages of this weapon nicely, I think. They were all side stabs btw.

[Saturn]

LASER GUN: Shoots a Beam that does damage as long as it is held on someone (more charge=longer duration)
No headshots
Cannot be fired while unzoomed
REALLY obvious when fired
Crits (only if charged beyond 50%)

[François]

LASER GUN: Shoots a Beam that does damage as long as it is held on someone (more charge=longer duration)
No headshots
Cannot be fired while unzoomed
REALLY obvious when fired
Crits (only if charged beyond 50%)

And whenever two beams from this weapon intersect, all snipers on both teams die instantly.

[Fredward]

LASER GUN: Shoots a Beam that does damage as long as it is held on someone (more charge=longer duration)
No headshots
Cannot be fired while unzoomed
REALLY obvious when fired
Crits (only if charged beyond 50%)

And whenever two beams from this weapon intersect, all players on both teams die instantly.

[Doom]

The thing you guys have to consider is that the basic Sniper Rifle has a comfortable zoom that allows you to strafe while charging a shot that will variably insta-gib with preference to shooting the head. This is the defining feature of the class, much in the same way that the defining feature of the scout was to be annoying.

Also in the subtle way that the medic's actual primary, the heal-gun, was given a dynamic partner in the Kritzkrieg. The Blutsager was just a blatant upgrade to the needlegun, same with the Ubersaw.

I like the idea of a Boomerang for melee alternative so far. It maintains the cherished ideals of the kukri: a weapon of desperation for the sniper caught with his pants down, or a trusted companion for the experienced and daring.

So with that in mind, I was thinking of something for the sniper rifle to radically alter it's playstyle, yet still suit being the god damn Sniper instead of some sort of Soldier Jr cadet or hallway camping kamikaze. The Soldier and Pyro already do those things!

My first idea was a rifle that disables head shots/crits, does a clip more decent damage(current base is 60ish, bump it to 80ish) and does X Interesting effect. I suggested a bleed effect. A one-time, Natasha and 1/2 slow would work. For cosmetics, the thing leaves a trail as they bleed. This is because whenever I play Sniper, I like to sneak up on Heavies and loudly announce that I HAVE CAUGHT A WHALE YAAARRRR. And the name writes itself: Blood In The Water. Give it a cute little jagged shark motif and BAM. This rifle suits Snipers like myself who prefer to act as suppressive fire, taking the headshots WHEN WE CAN, but content to simply body shot a soldier twice with whatever charge we have and let him go find a health pack.

For a more practical idea, especially as far as altering existing paly styles go, I'm thinking of a REALLY FANCY high-tech(as far as the art style allows) tri-pod rifle that lets the Sniper do something drastic, like change his "silhouette." If you didn't know, every class in TF2 is designed to cast a distinctive silhouette that lets you recognize them immediately. It's also pretty key to sniper on sniper fights or recognizing the danger of a sniper.

Anyway, it's a fancy tri-pod rifle. Maybe it has a taunt/sandvich/bonk style animation that lets you lie down. Maybe it can shoot around a corner JUST A LITTLE, only your extended rifle scope revealing you. Or a comical lens flare. The sniper is wearing shades: he'd dig that sort of cheesy coolness.

I dunno what else it might do.. maybe it has a bit of automatic fire or variable zooms or better damage, but I like the idea that for the top dog sniper or the highly compact team, pissing away five seconds and leaving yourself wide open to revenge from the rear is worth a shift in play that'll let you wreck havoc across a chokepoint or a charge. Granted the more I think about it, the more I realize this is the sort of esoteric thing you might replace the SMG with.. the Sniper Rifle really needs to be intuitive.

But hey, whatever Valve does, as long we don't get more blatant upgrades like the Ubersaw or KGB. The Pyro update had the perfect meshing of practical, varied and refined subtlety...

[Kazz]

If you didn't know, every class in TF2 is designed to cast a distinctive silhouette that lets you recognize them immediately.

  O RLY

fucks sake, everybody listened to the commentary ok

i've heard like a trillion people mention this in conversation as though it were privileged information