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[Romosome]

There's always the forums, Arc.

[Transportation]

My point has always been that religion doesn't make people stupid and ignorant, stupid and ignorant people-

Ahaha, yes it does! Nonbelievers don't buy into Creationism or it's Young Earth variety. Please note that these two movements also have large political capital. So, before saying the other side does it too, please cite the political influence of said stupid idea

-just need something to believe in and smart people who manipulate those people would do it in different ways, if not through religion. That same sort of faith filled zeal can be harnessed in different ways.

Yes, but it's a tad more difficult without religion. The concept of a supernatural power lets you get away with justifying anything.

LIKE POLITICS. It doesn't matter how things work, or for what reason you're doing them, if you instill a sense of outrage, people will go for it no matter what the truth is. People (on both sides) have economic views based more on faith then actual numbers.

This is another annoying canard. Yes, Democrats can be wrong, but their economic views correspond to reality with much greater frequency. Saying otherwise is just golden mean nonsense.

[Mongrel]

My point has always been that religion doesn't make people stupid and ignorant, stupid and ignorant people-

Ahaha, yes it does! Nonbelievers don't buy into Creationism or it's Young Earth variety. Please note that these two movements also have large political capital. So, before saying the other side does it too, please cite the political influence of said stupid idea

-just need something to believe in and smart people who manipulate those people would do it in different ways, if not through religion. That same sort of faith filled zeal can be harnessed in different ways.

Yes, but it's a tad more difficult without religion. The concept of a supernatural power lets you get away with justifying anything.

LIKE POLITICS. It doesn't matter how things work, or for what reason you're doing them, if you instill a sense of outrage, people will go for it no matter what the truth is. People (on both sides) have economic views based more on faith then actual numbers.

This is another annoying canard. Yes, Democrats can be wrong, but their economic views correspond to reality with much greater frequency. Saying otherwise is just golden mean nonsense.

I don't know that Kayin isn't at least partially right. People believe in a ton of shit they don't understand, and will fight like rabid dogs for those causes, irrespective of religion. Just because one cockamamie theory is shut to you, doesn't mean you can't start a pointless fight about something else.

I think you'd have to see the dynamics of a society without any really strong religious beliefs before you could really say with any accuracy that religion is the beast of burden for ignorance. But then, I suspect we'll have religion as long as we have the unexplained and the unexplainable, so that's rather unlikely.

[Norondor]

BUT FALSE EQUIVALENCE MAKES ME FEEL BETTER ABOUT BEING A MEALY-MOUTHED APOLITICAL FAGGOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brentai]

AFAIK Japan doesn't take its Shinto-Zen crap very seriously.  Are they the most enlightened society on Earth?  I mean, according to anybody who's not Japanese?

EDIT: Shut up Norondor.

[Mongrel]

You know, if I was the type to abuse mod powers, I would split all of Noro's posts off into their own thread.

Not because his posts bug me (they don't), but because it would make me giggle like a schoolgirl.

[Saturn]

the best/funniest possible outcome is that all these people spouting their "HURR DURR I'M NOT PAYING MY TAXES" is that they get audited to shit and sent to prison.

[Brentai]

Obama just ignores it and keeps on truckin'.

[Mongrel]

the best/funniest possible outcome is that all these people spouting their "HURR DURR I'M NOT PAYING MY TAXES" is that they get audited to shit and sent to prison.

Now that would be funny.

Kudos - to Saturn of all people - for the funniest, most relevant post in this thread for a while.

[Catloaf]

AFAIK Japan doesn't take its Shinto-Zen crap very seriously.  Are they the most enlightened society on Earth?  I mean, according to anybody who's not Japanese?

You forgot to mention Weeaboos.

[Arc]

Cavuto: A Man Of The Numbers

ಠ_ಠ

[Norondor]

you know, my comment earlier wasn't really called for, so i'll cop to being a shithead for that. I don't dislike you at all apart from you being a little boring, I_M, and if i disliked everyone who i found a little boring i would probably come across as some kind of unhinged lunatic.

That said, you know, fuck the haters. I actually won't shut up in this case, because it really drives me up the wall, this idiotic response from people on the left (well, this being america, in the middle) that the left and right are both equally bad at different times or in different ways, and you know what, no. There is no way you can been at once alive, informed, and in america during the last TWO DECADES and say that. You have to be hopelessly naive, pre-indoctrinated with the ideals of right-wing superiority such that you think the Reagan-era legacy of malfeasance, abandonment and graft balances out with the mere fact that liberals think the government should have money to operate (<--------THIS ONE) or literally -- not figuratively, not snarkily -- retarded. In the first and second cases i should like to grab you by the lapels and shake you awake; in the third i am not too worried about hurting your feelings anyway.

[Arc]

Nor, don't you understand?

Fox News isn't the problem. The legions they purposely whip into a furor are!

Why can't you see the truth!?

[Norondor]

IT'S EXACTLY THE FUCKING OPPOSITE

[Arc]

Oh Nor, you need to become post-political. Only then will you be set free.

Free, sitting atop this wonderful fence.

[Transportation]

AFAIK Japan doesn't take its Shinto-Zen crap very seriously.  Are they the most enlightened society on Earth?  I mean, according to anybody who's not Japanese?

EDIT: Shut up Norondor.

Them and Scandinavia have the smallest crime rates in the world, while also being the most secular. It's a correlation, though. It could mean that people become less religious the less crime there is. The U.S. crime rate is also absurd when compared to other developed countries in general.

This website has some nice graphs on the bottom if you're interested. I haven't read it in forever so the actual text might not be entirely relevant.

[François]

My point has always been that religion doesn't make people stupid and ignorant, stupid and ignorant people-

Ahaha, yes it does! Nonbelievers don't buy into Creationism or it's Young Earth variety. Please note that these two movements also have large political capital. So, before saying the other side does it too, please cite the political influence of said stupid idea

-just need something to believe in and smart people who manipulate those people would do it in different ways, if not through religion. That same sort of faith filled zeal can be harnessed in different ways.

Yes, but it's a tad more difficult without religion. The concept of a supernatural power lets you get away with justifying anything.

LIKE POLITICS. It doesn't matter how things work, or for what reason you're doing them, if you instill a sense of outrage, people will go for it no matter what the truth is. People (on both sides) have economic views based more on faith then actual numbers.

This is another annoying canard. Yes, Democrats can be wrong, but their economic views correspond to reality with much greater frequency. Saying otherwise is just golden mean nonsense.

I don't know that Kayin isn't at least partially right. People believe in a ton of shit they don't understand, and will fight like rabid dogs for those causes, irrespective of religion. Just because one cockamamie theory is shut to you, doesn't mean you can't start a pointless fight about something else.

I think you'd have to see the dynamics of a society without any really strong religious beliefs before you could really say with any accuracy that religion is the beast of burden for ignorance. But then, I suspect we'll have religion as long as we have the unexplained and the unexplainable, so that's rather unlikely.

I've long been of the opinion that government is the new god. Americans should know by dear, recent experience how much retarded shit you can get away with once you invoke patriotism.

[Norondor]

Not government. Society.

This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, it's just true.

[Bongo Bill]

You need to treat them like children. Small, ignorant, mean little brats. In public.

These men should be stripped of all dignity. Not by a ravening lynch mob with barrels of tar in tow, but by wise parents condescending as they would to a wailing spoiled child.

By all means, hasten the demise of civilized discourse. Why debate your opponents in search of a more sophisticated understanding of the issues, when you can simply condescend to them, provoking them to still greater outbursts of ideological insecurity, until only half of the picture can be taken seriously?

Good policy does not emerge from attaching yourself to a perspective and undermining all its rivals, but from permitting ideas to suffer criticism and defense from all perspectives until a satisfactory shared understanding of its risks and benefits can be established, at which point all that remains is for voters or representatives to identify their priorities.

Perhaps this makes me naïve, but I don't think there's anything to be gained from attacking a position through the idiots among its supporters.

[Norondor]

Perhaps this makes me naïve,

Among a number of other things.

There's not much point in playing by the rules of civilized discourse once the other side has already abandoned even the pretense of doing so, and in fact have more or less rewritten them.