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[Doom]

What I am noticing between arena matches and SNIPER BROS and standard dedicated use from the Huntsmen on Shadow Moses is that the Huntsman was actually a resounding success, which is nice considering the overall shoddiness of the update.

The Huntsman Sniper is not the Rifle Sniper. He does not care that you are rushing him, he is not tunnel-visioned, and he will commit to the front-line. Which is cool, because he can assess a lot of threats and remove them swiftly.

Considering how badly some of you tunnel-vision as classes like Pyro, Scout or Heavy, which all require high levels of situation awareness, it's no surprise how often I see a single Huntsman arrow punctuate the first blood of Sawmill, or how often a Heavy dies in three hits. What the fuck did he think would happen? Ten days ago, the same thing happens, just with one bullet instead of 1-2 arrows.

It is not hard to hit predictable targets. I am less afraid of a pyro charging me than I am of bumping into that pyro. Putting 4-5 Revolver Slugs into a W+M1 is about as difficult as scratching my balls as I berate that pyro over all-talk.

[Mongrel]

I think the last stage on pipeline could be better with a setup time

I don't know what it is with the first two stages of pipeline... it's like either EVERYONE is using alternate routes, there's not a single safe spot, and your enimies boil out of every possible spot like rats scurrying over a swiss cheese, or else everyone just piles headlong into the central tunnel for a big ole slamdance.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of a happy medium.

With regards to the Huntsman, I think some people find it annoying because there are decent players who shied away from sniper in the past due to his non-interactivity. The Huntsman puts a lot more of thos poeple into play.

[Niku]

The Huntsman Sniper is not the Rifle Sniper. He does not care that you are rushing him, he is not tunnel-visioned, and he will commit to the front-line. Which is cool, because he can assess a lot of threats and remove them swiftly.

This.  If I am playing well as HUNT HUNT HUNT, then I am aiming for the Medic behind that oncoming Heavy while he's spun up to attack the pyro charging him, and making snap calls as to where I think an enemy is going when they turn their attentions on me.  Pyros and Scouts can absolutely wreck a Huntsniper if they're not predictable in their approach path or if they ambush -- GO FIGURE.  But the longer I play with it (and love it), the better I'm getting at gauging IF SCOUT SPEED = X AND HUNTSMAN SPEED = Y THEN SAY GOODBYE TO YER HEAD, WANKER.  Charging headlong straight at one, or standing still in the thick of battle, will get you killed just as surely as it would with a competent rifle Sniper.

The Huntsman almost makes me not care about every other problem with the update.

also if you are getting bodyshot then stop having a body

[Mongrel]

You guys are driving me nuts with all this Huntsman talk.

WHY IS THE ONLY ITEM I DON'T HAVE YET THE VERY BEST ONE FROM THE UPDATE?

HNNNNNGH!

[James Edward Smith]

I love Catloaf's post because it's basically deja vu for me of anytime that people complained to me about the demoman being overpowered in the past. My response is exactly the same as it was in that situation:

Please actually play sniper with the huntsman and do half as well as the people you are complaining about before you claim something is unbalanced.

The Huntsman basically turns the Sniper into a low healthed Soldier with a harder to aim weapon that has to reload after every shot instead of slowly after 4 and has a projectile moves faster but that has no splash damage.

I might be crazy, but I don't think that a more fragile Soldier who is more efficient with his ammo but can never ruin your team's day with a lucky crit is broken in any way shape or form.

Actually, now that I think about it, Huntsmen are kind of like a Demoman in that smart Pyros and scouts are their worst enemy and predictable or foolishly over aggressive opponents their best marks.

[Brentai]

Pipeline's last stage is balanced backwards.  The closer one team gets to its goal the harder it is for the other team to mount a defense.

And yeah I think the major problem with the Huntsman is just that most people don't have one.

[James Edward Smith]

Pipeline is actually my favourite map at the moment. I love pretty much every stage of it. My only disappointment in it is that the finale really sucks. Nothing gets fucking blown up, so what's the point of pushing a bombcart all that time? The dumbest part of it all is that there are BLU and RED bases at the top of the ramps on either side, so why the hell does the cart not go across and blow up the other team's base? It's so obvious!

Anyway, the problem on Shadow Moses seems to be that no one treats the first two stages like they are the multi fronted battles they actually are and just runs through the middle in a one pronged approach that is like trying to stick your dick through a cheerio. A better strategy, as Mongrel seems to be suggesting, is a two pronged attack using the alt route that can hopefully link up with the main cart push on the other side of the tunnel and then support it to the goal while defending the enemies alt route attack with sentries, etc.

The final stage seems plagued by the fact that not enough people know you can get to any of the flat parts of the map (the bottom the middle and the top) directly from your spawn room. Once one team gets the advantage they just use their high position to keep the other team down who keeps trying to push their own cart without neutralizing the other teams cart pushing band first. It seems to me like a better strategy to get back in the game would be to attack with force from the top of the hill down onto the team that is beating you and then run to your cart and try to gain back the lost ground once they are dead.

[Mothra]

Pipeline is scary and confusing, and an unsettling number of people seem to already know this place inside and out.

[Bal]

How do people get lost on TF2 maps? Particularly the official ones. Steel I can halfway understand, because it was sort of a new concept, but Pipeline? Really? It's a standard valve map. Obvious routes are short, less obvious routes are longer, but offer tactical advantage. Wander around for ten minutes and you will find every single one of them. That's it. That's the whole thing.

[Mothra]

Well it's not that I get lost on Pipeline, I mean I'm not retarded, it's just that there are a million little obscure hiding spots where snipers can shoot from half a level away, and like seven different angles (under the bridge, either side, behind the door, behind the rock) around the spawn where W+M1's will explode out like bats of out hell. I know teams were hilariously unbalanced and all, but if a first-time player of the map can't step out of the spawn doors without having to dodge a dozen angles of sniper fire and check at least three different potential pyro camps, well that just seems like a level that's way too cluttered to be even remotely noob friendly.

I guess I could learn the correct routes on this stage after getting my ass kicked for a couple more games, but at that point the game becomes work, and it's more appealing to ragequit and come back when there's a better level on.

[Catloaf]

Please actually play sniper with the huntsman and do half as well as the people you are complaining about before you claim something is unbalanced.

That's the thing. I CAN'T!!!

In fact, a Battlement Rifle Sniper almost always beats a Battle Huntsman Sniper because one weapon is hit-scan and the other is not.

Due to glitches, I have only once ever actually seen an arrow in mid flight.  So how is one to dodge it?  It may as well be hit scan.

Seriously just change every use of Huntsman and Sniper in your posts to Shotgun and One-of-Four-Classes. IF THE OTHER GUY HIT YOU MORE OFTEN, HE PROBABLY WINS.

You know what the difference between the shotgun and the bow is?  FALL OFF!!

Catloaf, you are just bad at the game.

At least I don't ragequit every fucking time I play.

But seriously, I have numbers that argue otherwise.  I just have off days of immense sucking.

I challenge you to win a game against me on any other map than HooDoo with even teams and an all sniper defense.  It will not work.

EDIT:  No, Snowbridge doesn't count either.

[Misha]

you don't need to see arrows in flight to be better able to dodge them. If you weave back and forth unpredictably it's generally hard to hit someone with a non-hitscan weapon.

[Catloaf]

Headshot yes, Bodyshot no.

EDIT SO DRETH CAN UNDERSTAND ME:

While it may be near impossible to headshot on a evasive target with a non-hitscan weapon, it's not all that hard no hit them in general unless they're a scout.

[Misha]

what?

[Brentai]

If you can hit them that easily with a nonscan weapon then they're not zigzagging enough.  Or they keep zagging back into their zig.

[Rico]

Due to glitches, I have only once ever actually seen an arrow in mid flight.  So how is one to dodge it?  It may as well be hit scan.

Honestly curious as to what sort of glitch makes you unable to see a projectile with a team-colored tracer but still have enough fidelity otherwise to play the game.

I challenge you to win a game against me on any other map than HooDoo with even teams and an all sniper defense.  It will not work.

EDIT:  No, Snowbridge doesn't count either.

Wait, wait... you really mean an entire defense of snipers?  Really?  That's your uncounterable scenario?

Really?

[Doom]

Catloaf is pretty butthurt that he couldn't overcome a 4v4 scenario in which his opponents were, get ready for it: four snipers.

He's so butthurt that he can't even accuse me of things I actually do: I never rage-quit. I team swap because I'm a win whore. He's the one that rage-quit because four snipers is an unstoppable murder force.

But seriously, I'm glad some of you can be so completely retarded that it makes me look gentlemanly in comparison. Thanks, Catloaf!

[Brentai]

I never rage-quit. I team swap because I'm a win whore.

That's not better at all!

[Kazz]

"I'm a win whore" does sound better than "I have a severe mental breakdown every time I lose at anything"

[Doom]

"I have a severe mental breakdown every time I lose at anything" sounds better than "Anything that defies me should be removed from the game."

I hate Pipeline, but I just go Pyro and faggot up the side-routes to cope.