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Author Topic: Primary Wars  (Read 45821 times)

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Guild

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #340 on: May 14, 2008, 08:05:26 PM »

anyone who was concerned about Obama's race before is still going to be concerned about Obama's race after.

Racism, being a byproduct of ignorance, is transient. This election is seen by many as a galvanizing marker for human rights in the most culturally dominant country in the world as it is inspiring debate and getting information circulating, which in turn leads to an end to ignorance.

I can see someone who was raised to be racist siding with Obama because of a combination of his running mate and the discussion his campaign is inspiring, though you're right; the shift would probably be immeasurably tiny.

Still voting McCain because I'm smart a conservative racist.
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Kazz

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #341 on: May 14, 2008, 08:17:24 PM »

And I'm voting for Obama because I'm racist!
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Mongrel

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #342 on: May 14, 2008, 09:20:25 PM »

:mahboi: Don't be surprised if Gore endorses in Florida.

Gore in Florida?

That's not an endorsement. That's a dread curse from beyond the grave.
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Shinra

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #343 on: May 14, 2008, 10:27:52 PM »

anyone who was concerned about Obama's race before is still going to be concerned about Obama's race after.

Racism, being a byproduct of ignorance, is transient. This election is seen by many as a galvanizing marker for human rights in the most culturally dominant country in the world as it is inspiring debate and getting information circulating, which in turn leads to an end to ignorance.

I can see someone who was raised to be racist siding with Obama because of a combination of his running mate and the discussion his campaign is inspiring, though you're right; the shift would probably be immeasurably tiny.

Still voting McCain because I'm smart a conservative racist.

It was a poor choice of words.

The point I'm trying to make is that Edwards or Clinton aren't magically going to make the people who aren't voting for Obama because he's black take another look at things. They're not going to vote Obama because they don't want a black president.

I know the race issue is touchy, but it's definately there. There's millions of Americans who won't vote Obama on the simple grounds of his skin color. I still think Obama is going to win, but it's not going to be on the virtue of the appalachian redneck vote.
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TA

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #344 on: May 14, 2008, 10:37:48 PM »

People that won't vote for Obama because of his skin color are probably locked into voting McCain no matter what ticket he's up against, on the basis of his "Kill all the brown people" policies.
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Thad

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #345 on: May 14, 2008, 11:52:07 PM »

Ah, but see, they're still mad at him for not wanting to kill ALL the brown people; he was a moderate on immigration until he started running for President.

I think I've already linked this, but August has a great rundown of why Biden would be a good running-mate for Obama.

How fringey IS the fringe?  Are these people who would stay home or vote Barr rather than McCain?  Anecdotally, I know one guy who's going to write in Ron Paul rather than vote McCain, because he believes the latter is a RINO.

Regarding the talk about racism: it's not a binary value, guys; there are DEGREES of racism.  While I'm sure there are a hell of a lot of people who won't vote for Obama no matter what, I'm sure there are some who would be more likely to vote for him if he had an appealing running-mate.  But you ARE right that he shouldn't focus on whether his running-mate's race, he should focus on policy -- there are many issues that could hurt Obama in a general election, of which his race is only one.  Biden or Richardson would be a great pick to make up for his lack of foreign policy experience, for example, which is VITAL in that McCain is running his entire campaign around his foreign policy experience.

There are other issues to consider, too -- southern states with large black populations ARE likely to see unprecedented black voter turnout.  That may swing a few.  And I think the uglier the racism gets, the more backlash we're going to see -- there are a lot of people, both Democrats and Republicans, who are embarrassed by racism within their respective parties and who would be more likely to vote Obama simply to distance themselves from bigots.  Again, I don't see that swinging the election, but I think it's going to swing some votes.
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Guild

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #346 on: May 15, 2008, 04:46:12 AM »

...there are a lot of people, both Democrats and Republicans, who are embarrassed by racism within their respective parties and who would be more likely to vote Obama simply to distance themselves from bigots.

That's a silly assertion to make. I don't feel like changing my vote to Obama because my neighbor is racist. What am I going to do, brag about how I sacrificed what I felt was a better direction for the country to go in for the ability to brag about being not a racist? I know I'm not a racist.

You're a racist, aren't you? Racey-race racist.

On the other hand you're totally right about degrees of racism. I thought about that when I posted but somehow failed to verbalize it.
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Friday

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #347 on: May 15, 2008, 08:22:33 AM »

I want a female black lesbian crippled blind cyborg for president.

Then, once she's elected, all the minorities will fight to the death for credit.
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Guild

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #348 on: May 15, 2008, 08:53:56 AM »

Friday.

Edit: That stopped being funny to you guys a long time ago, didn't it.
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Thad

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #349 on: May 15, 2008, 11:42:51 AM »

...there are a lot of people, both Democrats and Republicans, who are embarrassed by racism within their respective parties and who would be more likely to vote Obama simply to distance themselves from bigots.

That's a silly assertion to make. I don't feel like changing my vote to Obama because my neighbor is racist. What am I going to do, brag about how I sacrificed what I felt was a better direction for the country to go in for the ability to brag about being not a racist? I know I'm not a racist.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

In 2006, Rush Limbaugh cost Jim Talent his Senate seat by mocking Michael J Fox's Parkinson's.  The well-publicized video led to a large infusion to Claire McCaskill's campaign in its final days.  Did it swing some people who were on the fence?  Did it get more people to come out and vote who would have just stayed at home?  Or was the effect indirect; was it simply the extra campaign cash, and not Limbaugh's video, that changed the outcome of the election?

The answer to that question doesn't matter to my point, only to yours.  It doesn't have to be as simple as you consciously saying "I must do this to prove I am not a racist," things like that can be unconscious or indirect.

As for "sacrificing what you felt was a better direction for the country to go in," people do that all the time.  Except they call it "changing their mind".  But hey, stay the course, Guild; it's done us a world of good so far.
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Thad

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #350 on: May 15, 2008, 05:09:30 PM »

...So Obama's speech at the Democratic convention will occur on the 45th anniversary of the I Have a Dream Speech, whereas McCain's at the Republican Convention will occur at the same time as the NFL season opener between the Giants and the Redskins.

So, it bears repeating one more time, this election is stacked SO HARD in the Democrats' favor that it's going to take some kind of record-shattering incompetence for them to fuck this one up.
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Kazz

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #351 on: May 15, 2008, 05:19:57 PM »

I wake up in a cold sweat sometimes, wondering whether John Kerry threw his Vietnam medals over the bridge, or just tried to look like he was doing it, and then I try to figure out which would be more offensive, and then he goes hunting and oh god it's happening agaaaain
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Mongrel

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #352 on: May 15, 2008, 05:42:52 PM »

So, it bears repeating one more time, this election is stacked SO HARD in the Democrats' favor that it's going to take some kind of record-shattering incompetence for them to fuck this one up.

Which, of course, is no guarantee at all. [/LOLcynicLOL]
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Thad

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #353 on: May 15, 2008, 09:02:34 PM »

Er, yeah, that's sort of my point.
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Catloaf

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #354 on: May 15, 2008, 09:08:03 PM »

This could go in any politics thread but....

If things keep going the way they are (if McCain wins), I am going to be forced to believe that the Mayans were right and the Earth is going to end its great cycle come December 2012.  What that entails I'm not completely sure, but I'm guessing it means mass extinction and the end of civilization as we know it.
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Arc

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #355 on: May 15, 2008, 09:08:56 PM »

:mahboi: Don't be surprised if Gore endorses in Florida.

Obama is now scheduled to be in Tampa on May 21st.
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Brentai

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #356 on: May 15, 2008, 09:12:24 PM »

If things keep going the way they are (if McCain wins), I am going to be forced to believe that the Mayans were right and the Earth is going to end its great cycle come December 2012.  What that entails I'm not completely sure, but I'm guessing it means mass extinction and the end of civilization as we know it.

It's a huge secret, but it actually means that black will finally go out of style.

Don't tell anyone!
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Arc

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #357 on: May 15, 2008, 09:14:12 PM »

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Cthulhu-chan

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #358 on: May 16, 2008, 09:59:12 AM »

It's a huge secret, but it actually means that black will finally go out of style.

Don't tell anyone!

You'll take my black clothes from my cold, bloody corpse!   :MENDOZAAAAA:
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Arc

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #359 on: May 16, 2008, 02:12:27 PM »

So, yeah, Bush appointed Obama the nominee, and you've likely seen the Kevin James Hardball video by now...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YK0d8ENS__c

... But the important question is: Is he getting an invisible sideways blowjob? Y/N/B
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