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[SCD]

Hi there,

Been noticing in some places that the freedom of the press and internet is starting to either become in question, or in other places solidified. 

Here are two places (apart from ozzieland)

Italy:
Berlisconi's cabinet is eying internet censorship after his assault
Mentioned again here

This is of interest as the current government has been put on notice by a reputable reporting NGO.

Canada

On the positive side, Canada's Supreme court recently made a ruling which strengthens the press' defense against libel suits link


Again, I'll throw up any flags I see onwards in either direction.  Since Australia has been looking at internet censorship, I suspect that other states may follow suit.

[Mongrel]

I was going to mention Australia, until I saw it in the the last line.

As much as it sounds horribly predjudiced, Italy has always been something of a joke among western democracies.

Not just in the sense of garden-variety corruption, but just generally "How can we find a new way fuck this up?" stunning levels of incompetance. Nothing I ever hear about democracy mismanaged is a surprise when coming out of Italy.

Anyway, the point is that Italy should never be taken as the canary in the coal mine, because it's the only canary that brings along a box of matches and a stick of TNT in case it doesn't find any gas.

Australia has always had a horrible redneck streak that tended to totalitarianism lurking in wings, much like England has always had a scary fascist fringe, but that recent move is pretty significant. Especially considering their leftists are in power now.

[SCD]

Good points, as Roma has not been the same since the Vandals came, saw, and pillaged.  However, I will not mistake them for a future-Canada, Amurica, or wherever else.  Instead, this is more of a "how this can happen to you" thread; a active series of flagposts of good or bad things in your country and what they can lead to.  So far I got nada.

As far as Australia goes, I want to say that all periods of weapons registration and confiscation have also been carried out by leftist governments as well (although a kind soul such as Constantine would/should call out my bias by pointing out the Patriot Act in the US). 

But for now I should focus on freedom of speech in democratic states.  We should have an interesting show over the next decade, anyway.

[Mongrel]

Well, internet censorship at the national level is going to be highly subjective and without any real workaround, barring old-fashioned physical data transfers.

It's new ground, so I expect that many governments will broach the subject at some point. I'm not *too* worried, because I'd give pretty good odds that the US won't enact such legislation. I mean, they're willing to run their country into the sub sub basement, but by god, don't even dare suggest you can't have kiddie porn while you do so (I'm actually not being sarcastic there).

Of course, large American corporations would be very happy to enact such legislation, but there's been some significant judgements in favour of net neutrality recently. In the longest run, might turn out to be the best thing to come out of this administration.

[Catloaf]

One freedom of the press that I don't like:  To actively mislead their audience.
At least that's one thing that free market competition helps.

My position on internet censorship is roughly that of a redneck's position on limiting access to firearms.

[Norondor]

One freedom of the press that I don't like:  To actively mislead their audience.
At least that's one thing that free market competition helps.

I will burn you. You will die of terror.

[SCD]

Interesting point of debate, Catloaf and one that I disagree and agree on.  Keep in mind that strong free markets are regulated, and regulation should be in place to ensure that the conversation remains relevant.  There would be many states elsewhere where Right wing talking heads would be sued for Libel as they do tend to disinform ( I do not currently pay attention to the other guys outside of the new yorker or walrus).

[Transportation]

One freedom of the press that I don't like:  To actively mislead their audience.
At least that's one thing that free market competition helps.

To expand on Norondor's point, you say this as if there was some massive government regulation forcing the US media's idiocy. Or that political bribery of newspapers wasn't hilariously blatant in the crazy go nuts free market of the 1800's.

Fox News alone shows there is a massive demand for confirmation bias.

And CNN is just retarded:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFdU0JC5NEg

MSNBC's best coverage are just editorials that occasionally do reporting. Otherwise just mainstream.

I get my news from the BBC on the web because they actually provide global coverage and the fact that publicly funded news groups are apparently better than free market ones.

[Catloaf]

To expand on Norondor's point, you say this as if there was some massive government regulation forcing the US media's idiocy. Or that political bribery of newspapers wasn't hilariously blatant in the crazy go nuts free market of the 1800's.

No! No! No! No No!  I hold quite the opposite opinion, actually.  I only meant to say that this is one area where having multiple people doing the same job really makes immediate sense without having to think about it.  That and I was about to say how much I would love for there to be a regulatory organization just for that sort of thing, but then imagined a right-wing's nightmare scenario/counter argument of such an organization being amazingly corrupt (and part of some leftist conspiracy or something).

I did not mean to imply that I think free-market capitalism can actually work without massive amounts of regulation to the point where it's barely free-market capitalism anymore.  It's just that my mind panicked upon a hypothetical idiot yelling in my ear.

Me trying to contribute to a thoughtful conversation:

[Mongrel]

One freedom of the press that I don't like:  To actively mislead their audience.
At least that's one thing that free market competition helps.

To expand on Norondor's point, you say this as if there was some massive government regulation forcing the US media's idiocy. Or that political bribery of newspapers wasn't hilariously blatant in the crazy go nuts free market of the 1800's.

Fox News alone shows there is a massive demand for confirmation bias.

And CNN is just retarded:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFdU0JC5NEg

MSNBC's best coverage are just editorials that occasionally do reporting. Otherwise just mainstream.

I get my news from the BBC on the web because they actually provide global coverage and the fact that publicly funded news groups are apparently better than free market ones.

Thank you.

Though, one must pause and reflect on how fragile our societies that in order to have a properly neutral, objective, and useful media, we must depend on legislation from governments who would be quite happy to to buy and pay for that same media. Or bludgeon it into submission (speaking of our friend Berlusconi...)

But then, I've said for a long long time, that no society can ever depend on laws or regulations to save it. The notion of checks and balances enshrined in the US consitution is cute and all, but it's a culture of mature sensible responsibility that truly ensures freedom and prosprity. Rule of law is kind of like Communism, in that it's a nice theory, but doesn't hold up if you just exect the system to override human faults. Without a good culture backing it up, any law - no matter how well thought out - eventually dissolves into hairsplitting and semantic gamesmanship.

And no country or group on this earth has ever mastered the preservation of a culture like that for more than a handful of generations. Well.... no modern ones anyway.

[Brentai]

See, when I read about the importance of mature and sensible responsibility on a big pink-and-green forum from a guy whose signature is a lolcat telling me I have a nice butt, I figure that yeah, having some regulation over simple human nature is pretty important.

[Mongrel]

Just for the record, you know Kazz gave me that sig, because I made a joke about his ass, right?  What? You don't have a nice butt? Is it all bony?



_{Also: For me, the forum is a placid blue-white.} 

[Brentai]

I missed that part, but you definitely did set that fabulous avatar up yourself.

[Mongrel]

Fuckin' right I did.