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Author Topic: What the fuck?  (Read 315279 times)

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Classic

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1240 on: August 29, 2009, 12:13:05 PM »

...

Seconding what dreth and others said about fertility being treated as a commodity. It probably has been since before patriarchy. I quote dreth because I want to remind him to look at articles before making fun of romo for pointing out something that may not be common knowledge. I wasn't aware that donor eggs have had nuclei swapped out before, so I'm curious where he read it. But shame on you dreth, for assuming he doesn't understand what he's reading and making fun of him for it in an asinine way. Shame!
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JDigital

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1241 on: August 29, 2009, 12:22:21 PM »

It's only evil on Star Trek to explain why humans haven't bio-engineered themselves beyond something the viewers can relate to.
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Catloaf

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1242 on: August 29, 2009, 12:29:10 PM »

I think the critics are fearing GATTICA.

The fact that there is a movie about such a thing means it will never happen.  Have we mimicked the warnings of any other science fiction? NO.

Just look at 1984, we could have such a situation now, but we don't.  We have everything in place for it to be easily doable, but it doesn't happen. If there is fiction about a subject, reality will not mirror it.  It's just too statistically unlikely.
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Classic

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1243 on: August 29, 2009, 12:34:37 PM »

But catloaf! LIE-BRUUS are in power! They like big government and hate FREEDOM! It's bound to happen!

Only probably it'll be more like brave new world with lots of drugs tits and stylistic warts.
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Catloaf

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1244 on: August 29, 2009, 01:00:33 PM »

I have no idea what you're talking about. :>_>:

*pops daily dose of antidepressants*
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Mongrel

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1245 on: August 30, 2009, 08:49:15 AM »

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Romosome

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1246 on: August 30, 2009, 09:57:23 AM »

Mitochondria and animal cells may be joined at the hip, but they still have separate DNA.

This is important - the donor egg is just a shell. We're a long way from bioroids, people.

Wrong.  Assumptions like this are where everything fucks up, and are unscientific to begin with.

Cellular contents, even non-genetic ones, are highly involved in gene interaction and the progression of cell lines, even outside of mitochondria.  It was a while back where they went "oh gee, cytoplasm actually has all sorts of stuff in it and isn't just inert goo", and that's what we know about it *currently*.

"People are already lousy parents, that's a bigger deal" isn't really a good argument for allowing this without proper oversight, either.  What bothers me is that there already isn't any damn oversight for genetic modification of...well, anything.  Once again it's an all or nothing deal where you either have complete laizzes-faire freedom of huge corporations to do whatever in the name of profit, or hysterical government bills that ban everything related to it in the name of stopping clone armies and human-animal hybrids.

So the latter looks ridiculous, people go with the former, something less crazy but still undesirable happens (like starlink corn spreading into the wild population), and people either shrug because there's no immediate effect or flip out and shun the tech entirely because it's now scary.

Basically I would like debates to no longer be YES/NO, especially with regards to science that affects our entire society.
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Classic

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1247 on: August 30, 2009, 10:04:58 AM »

Romo rails against the two party system. Unfortunately, having spent too much time with computers I'm completely binary as well as bipolar.
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Classic

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1248 on: August 30, 2009, 10:06:19 AM »

Romo, I'm too lazy to look up what you're talking about with starlink corn, but I was given the impression that domesticated corn cannot meaningfully reproduce without human assistance. Could I trouble you to find me some informative links?
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Mongrel

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1249 on: August 30, 2009, 10:41:37 AM »

Mitochondria and animal cells may be joined at the hip, but they still have separate DNA.

This is important - the donor egg is just a shell. We're a long way from bioroids, people.

Wrong.  Assumptions like this are where everything fucks up, and are unscientific to begin with.

Cellular contents, even non-genetic ones, are highly involved in gene interaction and the progression of cell lines, even outside of mitochondria.  It was a while back where they went "oh gee, cytoplasm actually has all sorts of stuff in it and isn't just inert goo", and that's what we know about it *currently*.

"People are already lousy parents, that's a bigger deal" isn't really a good argument for allowing this without proper oversight, either.  What bothers me is that there already isn't any damn oversight for genetic modification of...well, anything.  Once again it's an all or nothing deal where you either have complete laizzes-faire freedom of huge corporations to do whatever in the name of profit, or hysterical government bills that ban everything related to it in the name of stopping clone armies and human-animal hybrids.

So the latter looks ridiculous, people go with the former, something less crazy but still undesirable happens (like starlink corn spreading into the wild population), and people either shrug because there's no immediate effect or flip out and shun the tech entirely because it's now scary.

Basically I would like debates to no longer be YES/NO, especially with regards to science that affects our entire society.

Romo.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not "Rah rah let corporations do their thing". My view is that corporations are temporary, but science is eternal (barring amusing doomsday scenarios), so I'm more concerned with the implications of a discovery in and of itself, rather than how any particular Monsanto-esque group might exploit it in the next few decades.

One of two things will happen.

1) The process will cause all kinds of horrifying errors or genetic problems. Sooner or later this will lead to it being discredited for use. OR, the process will be improved or fixed, taking us to point 2.

2) The process works just fine and results in a healthier human population. At this point we must consider the socioeconomic and societal ramifications of the process (or, hopefully, this has already been considered).

I'm not saying that letting companies go nuts with the first option, leaving tens of thousands of damaged people is a good thing, but that's not what I was talking about.

The only time I REALLY get worried is when an advance like this or GM crops threatens the orginal naturally-evolved species with extinction, because I believe that not only is genetic diversity a good thing, but also that it will take generations upon generations to fully gauge the impact of GM foods and humans.
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François

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1250 on: August 30, 2009, 05:11:29 PM »

Speaking of anti-depressants...

Right or wrong, I could use some after finding out that someone actually proposed and ran this study.

Kids aren't allowed to be kids anymore; there's just this ridiculous performance stress all over the place, on younger and younger people. I have young cousins in sports, and they're clearly under a lot of pressure. I'm also pretty sure it's giving their dad a heart condition. He has a stressful job to begin with, and spends all his free time attending some event or training session. It sounds like an awful way to live for everyone in that family.

There's also the entirely bullshit way the government in Québec encourages parents to dump their kids in kindergartens as early as possible. We're creating generations of children who hardly see their own parents. Combine that with the fact that about a third of all boys don't get their high school diploma before the age of twenty, a definite indicator that the school system is broken from top to bottom...

...well...

Things are getting pretty bad.
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SCD

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1251 on: August 30, 2009, 05:24:16 PM »

This isn't new, folks

Anyone hear of "the lost generation" in regards to japan?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6535284

I'm not too sure where things are now, but this is the first time I looked upon it;   This has always been a bar horror story to me.
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Brentai

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1252 on: August 30, 2009, 05:43:43 PM »

Japan's a bit different.  It's not a place where you can fuck up early on and still have a chance to go back to school and fix yourself if you can gather up the gumption to.  Once you drop out of the standard school->work->retire->die order of things there's no getting back in it.  So it's kind of understandable that the parents over there are fearfully afraid of their children knowing any other way to live.

The West is a bit different though.  In fact I think it'd be interesting to see how much of his/her life the average US or Canadian citizen spends unemployed.  The breakdown of the school system throughout our shared culture has more to do with it being expected to do double-duty as some sort of government-run daycare.
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Mongrel

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1253 on: August 30, 2009, 07:20:36 PM »

Yes, but this is not strictly a Japanese problem anymore. The West and Europe have loads of cases like these too.

... you know something is wrong with the world when an aspect of Zardoz of all things starts coming to pass.
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Brentai

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1254 on: August 30, 2009, 07:24:07 PM »

To be fair, the penis is evil.
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Classic

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1255 on: August 30, 2009, 07:26:22 PM »

This is the only thread where discussing Zardoz is appropriate.
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Catloaf

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1256 on: August 30, 2009, 08:06:14 PM »

Damnit, now you made me have to Zardoz up.  I've seen it, but I can't remember how it's relevant.

EDIT:  And while I remember it mostly now with the help of wikipedia, I still don't see exactly what aspect has become real.
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Classic

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1257 on: August 30, 2009, 08:30:12 PM »

:nyoro~n: The people who lose all drive to live?
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Catloaf

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1258 on: August 30, 2009, 08:32:44 PM »

Oh, that.
It didn't click because no one's immortal or anything.
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Classic

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Re: What the fuck?
« Reply #1259 on: August 30, 2009, 08:39:10 PM »

It's not as taxing as you'd think at first.
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