Topic: Rape Me (Read 5903 times)

TA · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2010, 09:36:08 PM »

Quote from: Constantine on January 14, 2010, 09:16:45 PM

Now, she might say 'no' to your face during the actual act, but during any kind of non-sexual before hand meetup it's important to lay down ground rules and a safeword.

Which we don't know about, but is probably somewhere in those IMs. Probably alongside a stated desire of "her" to not actually meet and schedule things before the act, because that would kill the excitement of it.

Royal☭ · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2010, 09:36:48 PM »

Is TA trying to be a rapist apologist?

SCD · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2010, 09:43:04 PM »

Instant messaging would have been used in court as evidence.

And as far as I'm concerned if they were, the guy was being an idiot. You talk this over in person and until no is undoubtedly replaced with another word, 'no' is the end of it.

Don't take risks, especially if you're an american. America's sex laws are draconian. The after-incarceration even for a streaker will destroy your life.

Royal☭ · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2010, 09:47:12 PM »

This isn't a matter of draconian laws, though. This is a matter of a girl being raped. And it doesn't change that fact just because the rapist thought it was okay for him to do so.

In the end the guy willfully chose to avoid a face to face meeting first. If the IMs said 'No' this guy should have just walked away. But in the end he wanted to rape a girl. The guy setting him up to do this may have been a shitbag, but that makes this guy no less of a penis nozzle as a result.

Brentai · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2010, 09:51:26 PM »

Quote from: Constantine on January 14, 2010, 09:36:48 PM

Is TA trying to be a rapist apologist?

A rapeologist, if you will.

Royal☭ · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2010, 09:52:50 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YknjhnywGGI

Brentai · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:03:47 PM »

Honestly if you really have to you can drop the sexual assault charge and just keep the "aggravated kidnapping and aggravated burglary" ones. Just because somebody says you can break into their home armed with a lethal weapon doesn't mean you can. There's all sorts of precedent for that.

Just those two charges will keep the, let's even be nice and say unlucky and stupid, guy away from innocent people for a very long time, which is good.

TA · « **Reply #27 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:04:13 PM »

Interesting. So you believe that seeing an ad posted on the internet, contacting the person who posted the ad, and communicating with them repeatedly over IM, fundamentally and objectively cannot be enough to justify a belief - not a certainty, mind you, just a reasonable belief - that the person is who they're claiming to be? And thus this guy can't have made a terrible mistake in his desire to help someone act out a harmless rape fantasy, and must have been a malevolent rapist looking specifically to actually rape someone?

patito · « **Reply #28 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:07:57 PM »

The nature on IMs and emails make it so that, yes, you cannot rely solely on them for a matter of such importance such as rape. I'd say not even phone conversations are good enough for that.

Hell, I'm dubious enough of electronic communications to even buy things regularly from ebay and other such places.

Royal☭ · « **Reply #29 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:08:58 PM »

Quote from: TA on January 14, 2010, 10:04:13 PM

Interesting. So you believe that seeing an ad posted on the internet, contacting the person who posted the ad, and communicating with them repeatedly over IM, fundamentally and objectively cannot be enough to justify a belief - not a certainty, mind you, just a reasonable belief - that the person is who they're claiming to be? And thus this guy can't have made a terrible mistake in his desire to help someone act out a harmless rape fantasy, and must have been a malevolent rapist looking specifically to actually rape someone?

Well, when you it put it that way it just sounds like he was doing the neighborly thing for an anonymous person on Craigslist. Instead of, you know, willfully accepting at face value the validity of somebody saying "Please come and do something that could land you in jail and potentially harm another human being".

But you know what, the guy accepted a Craiglist add asking for a rapist, then accepted at face value the claims of a person he never met face to face that they wanted to be raped, and then proceeded to kick in the door of someone he didn't know, hold a knife to her throat and rape her. So yes, that is what I am calling a malevolent rapist.

TA · « **Reply #30 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:16:05 PM »

Quote from: Brentai Got the Skulltula Wallet! on January 14, 2010, 10:03:47 PM

Honestly if you really have to you can drop the sexual assault charge and just keep the "aggravated kidnapping and aggravated burglary" ones. Just because somebody says you can break into their home armed with a lethal weapon doesn't mean you can. There's all sorts of precedent for that.

Just those two charges will keep the, let's even be nice and say unlucky and stupid, guy away from innocent people for a very long time, which is good.

Unless his specific intent was actually to go in and actually rape her, then those charges don't hold water. They're prosecuting him as though he didn't believe the IMs at all, and actually wanted to commit real rape instead of, as he kept saying, fulfill a rape fantasy.

Brentai · « **Reply #31 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:17:32 PM »

Uh, yes they do? They're charging him with breaking in with a weapon and forcefully taking her. These are things that he did do.

TA · « **Reply #32 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:23:32 PM »

Quote from: Brentai Got the Skulltula Wallet! on January 14, 2010, 10:17:32 PM

Uh, yes they do? They're charging him with breaking in with a weapon and forcefully taking her. These are things that he did do.

They're charging him with aggravated kidnapping and aggravated burglary. Check the statutes. Aggravated burglary requires burglary, which requires a specific intent to commit a felony - which isn't present. Aggravated kidnapping requires "the intent to: (i) Hold for ransom or reward, or as a shield or hostage; (ii) Facilitate the commission of a felony; or (iii) Inflict bodily injury on or to terrorize the victim or another." Which, again, isn't present - unless all acting out of rape fantasies are kidnapping.

patito · « **Reply #33 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:27:28 PM »

But he had the intention to inflict bodily injury, he just decided to disregard common sense and take it as a fact that the person who he was talking to on IM was the same person he was gonna rape.

NexAdruin · « **Reply #34 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:32:05 PM »

What the boyfriend or ex-boyfriend did was just disgusting. In a way I feel sorry for the rapist, because he is also a victim here, but what he did was stupid and he should be punished for that. Can't they just not go for the maximum sentence, though? He definitely deserves jailtime and maybe some Common Sense Training, but he wouldn't have done this if he'd known it was wrong (or at least, I hope not). He's probably punishing himself as it is.

I do hope the woman recovers. Nobody deserves anything like that (except maybe a willful rapist or murderer). I wonder if it means anything to her that the guy didn't actually mean to rape her. Probably not though, because she still lost control, whether the guy meant to take it away or not, so her sense of security is probably completely destroyed.

The whole situation is just horrible.

Joxam · « **Reply #35 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:37:28 PM »

I'm sorry, as much as I LOVE to be devil's advocate for the decency of humanity, I would say that dude probably knew what he was doing. Of course, I will, however, argue that, because we can't see all the evidence, we don't really know what went on in the IMs.

Hell, if boyfriend was doing his homework he could have setup a meeting time, safe word, or any number of things you guys have suggested should be done first, purely over IM. That being said, you don't rape someone, I mean, you don't fake rape someone that WANTS it until you've at least had normal old sex first, IMO.

NexAdruin · « **Reply #36 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:41:24 PM »

Quote from: Joxam on January 14, 2010, 10:37:28 PM

I'm sorry, as much as I LOVE to be devil's advocate for the decency of humanity, I would say that dude probably knew what he was doing. Of course, I will, however, argue that, because we can't see all the evidence, we don't really know what went on in the IMs.

He might have known, but chose to ignore the knowledge. Never underestimate the power of denial.

Joxam · « **Reply #37 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:43:39 PM »

And that is exactly what they're going to attempt to figure out... I mean... what exactly are you arguing? Knowing but choosing to pretend like you don't is STILL RAPE, not something someone goes to "Common Sense Training" for.

The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji · « **Reply #38 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:45:41 PM »

Quote from: Mongrel on October 21, 2009, 07:00:54 AM

~~I can't believe that we're even having this debate.~~ Wait, yes I can.

Norondor · « **Reply #39 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:54:12 PM »

I'd be close to agreeing with TA, except there's that little bitty note about how the rape-patsy was in the process of being discharged from the military over a pattern of bad behavior.

I can't (or rather, won't) say for certain that it's totally impossible that a scenario like this could come up where both parties are acting out a strongly-felt fantasy and everything is as it appears -- but hey, just as the article says, they're going to try him not merely on his actions, but what the actions of a reasonable human being would have been. Even without knowing this fellow, the fact that he's essentially getting fired from his job at a time when there's a serious staffing crisis over his persistent shitty behavior would tend to indicate that he's probably not a reasonable person at all.

The ex-boyfriend, the one who posted the ad? He should be sent to the guillotine, no question.

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Author Topic: Rape Me (Read 5903 times)