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Author Topic: Cataclysm Ultra-thread  (Read 55180 times)

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #100 on: April 18, 2010, 11:42:58 AM »

The best part of that answer actually was "Tree of Life is getting a whole new model THINK ANCIENTS OF WAAAAR."

I hope that it's huge. Like, "Can't fit in doors" huge.
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sei

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #101 on: April 18, 2010, 11:53:00 AM »

Because life wasn't annoying enough as a tauren on a mammoth while outside.
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Doom

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2010, 12:04:01 PM »

Quote
We're continuing to refine the raid progression paths in Cataclysm, and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!

The first of the refinements being made is that we're combining all raid sizes and difficulties into a single lockout. Unlike today, 10- and 25-player modes of a single raid will share the same lockout. You can defeat each raid boss once per week per character. In other words, if you wanted to do both a 10- and 25-person raid in a single week, you’d need to do so on two different characters. Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel. Obviously the raid lockout change doesn't apply in pure Icecrown terms though, as this change goes hand-in-hand with a few other changes to raid progression in Cataclysm.

We're designing and balancing raids so that the difficulty between 10- and 25-player versions of each difficulty will be as close as possible to each other as we can achieve. That closeness in difficulty also means that we'll have bosses dropping the same items in 10- and 25-player raids of each difficulty. They'll have the same name and same stats; they are in fact the exact same items. Choosing Heroic mode will drop a scaled-up version of those items. Our hope is that players will be able to associate bosses with their loot tables and even associate specific artwork with specific item names to a far greater extent than today.

Dungeon Difficulty and Rewards

    * 10 and 25-player (Normal difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop the exact same items as each other.
    * 10 and 25-player (Heroic difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop more powerful versions of the normal-difficulty items.


We of course recognize the logistical realities of organizing larger groups of people, so while the loot quality will not change, 25-player versions will drop a higher quantity of loot per player (items, but also badges, and even gold), making it a more efficient route if you're able to gather the people. The raid designers are designing encounters with these changes in mind, and the class designers are making class changes to help make 10-person groups easier to build. Running 25-player raids will be a bit more lucrative, as should be expected, but if for a week or two you need to do 10s because half the guild is away on vacation, you can do that and not suffer a dramatic loss to your ability to get the items you want.

We recognize that very long raids can be a barrier for some players, but we also want to provide enough encounters for the experience to feel epic. For the first few raid tiers, our plan is to provide multiple smaller raids. Instead of one raid with eleven bosses, you might have a five-boss raid as well as a six-boss raid. All of these bosses would drop the same item level gear, but the dungeons themselves being different environments will provide some variety in location and visual style, as well as separate raid lockouts. Think of how you could raid Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep separately, but you might still want to hit both every week.

We do like how gating bosses over time allows the community to focus on individual encounters instead of just racing to the end boss, so we’re likely to keep that design moving forward. We don't plan to impose attempt limitations again though, except maybe in cases of rare optional bosses (like Algalon). Heroic mode may not be open from day one, but will become available after defeating normal mode perhaps as little as once or twice.

In terms of tuning, we want groups to be able to jump into the first raids pretty quickly, but we also don’t want them to overshadow the Heroic 5-player dungeons and more powerful quest rewards. We’ll be designing the first few raid zones assuming that players have accumulated some blue gear from dungeons, crafted equipment, or quest rewards. In general, we want you and your guild members to participate in and enjoy the level up experience.

We design our raids to be accessible to a broad spectrum of players, so we want groups to be able to make the decision about whether to attempt the normal or Heroic versions of raids pretty quickly. The goal with all of these changes is to make it as much of a choice or effect of circumstance whether you raid as a group of 10 or as a group of 25 as possible. Whether you're a big guild or a small guild the choice won't be dependent on what items drop, but instead on what you enjoy the most.

We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered.

No longer pretending that herding 15 extra retards deserves better loot.

10 and 25 man content also sharing same lock-out.

So... general idiot complaints are that CAAAAAAAAAAASUALS. I myself am hoping we get a repeat of the Death of Twinking: Put up or Shut up. If you love 25 man content so much, WoW Player-base, then prove that you did it for fun and not for e-peen and better loot.

And hey, if the vast majority of 25 man guilds vanish when Cataclysm hits, we'll have a good laugh about it. Just like when the Twinks said they didn't want to just farm noobies, they wanted real opponents.. and then well.. Twink-only BGs.  :glee:

But there is something more serious at stake not mentioned. Legendaries in 10 mans? Come on.

And stop catering to Melee DPS. Throw in some Shadowmourne style giant-quest chains for more than one spec per tier! Come on!
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sei

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2010, 01:06:56 PM »

Quote
Will legendary items be available through 10 player dungeons? How about special mounts like Invincible?

In some of these specific cases, the answer is that we just don’t know yet. We’re going to have to walk a fine line between dropping the same items in both 10- and 25-player modes, versus still offering something extra for the 25s. If we over-reward the 25s, then players who like 10-player raiding will still feel compelled to find more warm bodies. If we don’t provide any extra incentive for 25s, then some players may stop playing with their friends in order to avoid the extra organization required for a large raid.
Uhhhh...yeah, """friends."""

Other than this, the news looks pretty great to me.
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Bal

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2010, 01:33:39 PM »

So are we getting the band back together, or what?
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Rico

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2010, 02:46:48 PM »

Assuming we'll hold together for the first tier and scatter like usual.
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sei

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2010, 04:32:10 PM »

That or just not getting back together due to schedule constraints and lack of proper fucking tanks.

It'll probably depend on whether ORDER and MP break up in the lull between the baddy buff hitting 30% and when Cata drops.
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Rico

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #107 on: April 26, 2010, 04:58:59 PM »

God I cannot wait for all the lolcasualz complainers to realize that their guild has no real reason to carry them anymore and be cut to the curb.  Also makes me wonder how this expansion would be balance-wise with this change, since we'd be getting 245 gear from h icc.
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Bal

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2010, 05:29:08 PM »

I'm positive that's why they did it to begin with. They've already said that the gear inflation in this expansion alone is by far the largest they've ever had, and that it is a direct result of having at least three tiers of loot in every raid. Going down to two, normal and heroic, should help enormously.
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Ziiro

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #109 on: April 26, 2010, 06:06:03 PM »

I'll come back to Dethecus, it's just a matter of what class I'd rather play - DK or Rogue. (I know how to pick 'em)

Hey guys should I bring Haedanna back with me?
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Büge

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #110 on: April 26, 2010, 07:33:48 PM »

I wish you guys were on an RP server. Then I'd have some incentive to join.
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Ziiro

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #111 on: April 26, 2010, 07:44:04 PM »

You don't want to be on an RP server. There's no actual RP.

It's a mistake I will not make again.
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Doom

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #112 on: April 26, 2010, 08:05:02 PM »

Moon Guard and Wyrmrest Accord have tons of wide-spread RP, public and private.

Argent Dawn is a straight up PvE server wearing glasses and a fake nose.
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Ziiro

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #113 on: April 26, 2010, 08:53:18 PM »

Cenarion Circle = Argent Dawn then.

It's all cliques, there's no public RP. There's a guild that exist solely to pump the guild master's ego and personal storyline.
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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #114 on: April 26, 2010, 09:47:59 PM »

Cenarion Circle = Argent Dawn then.

It's all cliques, there's no public RP. There's a guild that exist solely to pump the guild master's ego and personal storyline.

Same with ER. If you ever roll on ER, <House Nightstone>, Guild Master Sirithil, is great trolling fodder. Is a guy who roleplays a bisexual nympho and that's really all I need to say.

Also thinks the world of himself.
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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #115 on: April 26, 2010, 09:56:08 PM »

Quote
Bashiok said:
We're continuing to refine the badge/emblem and PvP point systems in Cataclysm and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!

Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.

Here's the breakdown:

PvE
Hero Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most dungeons. (most like the current Emblem of Triumph)
Valor Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, as well as a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from Dungeon Finder daily Heroic and from raids. (most like the current Emblem of Frost)

PvP
Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)

When a new tier of raiding gear is released or a new PvP season begins, your higher tier of points will be converted into the lower tier. For instance, if a new tier of raid gear is released, your Valor points will be converted to Hero points, and similarly if a new PvP season begins your Conquest points will be converted to Honor points. Of course that means with these new releases you'll always begin without any of the higher tier of points, and thus be unable to stockpile them.

As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season’s gear with the more readily available Honor points.

We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.

To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.

We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
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Bal

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #116 on: April 26, 2010, 10:43:36 PM »

So basically the same system, with less clutter.
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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #117 on: April 26, 2010, 10:56:51 PM »

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmore or less. They did say something to the effect of liking the badge system, but hating the gangly, bulging monstrosity it's become.
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Pacobird

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #118 on: April 27, 2010, 05:53:54 AM »

I will do what I can but realistically I will be engaged by the time this game comes out so a lot of it comes down to how much content they put in. 
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Doom

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Re: Cataclysm Ultra-thread
« Reply #119 on: April 30, 2010, 01:31:47 PM »

Quote from: The New Wintergrasp
Population Balancing
Keep in mind Tol Barad is still deep in development, but we do have plans to implement more stringent faction balancing measures than those which exist for Wintergrasp today. We want to have the queue system try to create a battle with as close to a 1:1 team ratio as possible. In other words, if 40 Horde and 150 Alliance players are in the queue, it's going to make the battle somewhere close to 40 vs. 40. There will be a maximum cap of players allowed on each side as there is with Wintergrasp, but there will also be a minimum cap as well. Since the system will be looking for a 1:1 team ratio, the minimum cap will be designed to ensure a battle can't be thrown by a faction if no one shows up. So, say if the minimum cap is 25, there is a chance the battle could be 25 vs. 5.

Because of this new design, it'll be much more beneficial to play on a realm where the faction balance is roughly equivalent rather than seeking a realm where your faction dominates. For this reason we'll continue to monitor faction balance on all realms and work to ensure players enjoy the best gaming experience possible.

[...] Right now the issue with Wintergrasp is it actually encourages the behavior of selecting a realm where your faction dominates. If the reverse becomes true for Tol Barad, that only serves to help improve faction balance rather than further impact it. In Cataclysm it will be more beneficial to be on a realm where your faction is underpopulated (which will lead to a natural trend of balancing out the population), or be on a high-population realm where the maximum Tol Barad cap is reached, or close to reached for each battle.

I hate to ask, but would you explain again how the maximum and minimum caps work, or shall I say how you think they are going to work? I'm a bit confused. :x
The maximum cap will essentially work the same as it does in Wintergrasp. If there are hundreds of players in the queue for Tol Barad on both sides, the system is not going to overcrowd the zone and make it unplayable. It will create an even match with up to a certain number of players on each side.

The minimum cap is intended to prevent griefing from factions which are extremely underpopulated. For example, if it's 3 in the morning and the Alliance have a very low population on a realm, a single Alliance guild could decide to boycott Tol Barad. If there were no minimum cap with the 1:1 ratio queuing system, this could lead to a situation where Tol Barad ends up being a, say, 3 vs. 3 battle leaving many Horde players locked out. So if we set the minimum cap to 25, it means in this scenario that it would be 3 Alliance vs. 25 Horde. In other words, the underpopulated faction on an imbalanced realm can't fully dictate the battle size of Tol Barad all the way down to 0 participants on either side.

Does this apply to Wintergrasp too?

I just got word that we are planning on implementing this new balancing mechanism for Wintergrasp sometimes shortly after the next Wrath of the Lich King minor content patch. So you'll get a chance to see it in action and provide us with feedback prior to the launch of Cataclysm!

So in cliff note form: With the minimum cap is 25, if 25 Horde que and 150 alliance que, the battle will be 25 vs 25.
And if 25 Horde que, and 10 alliance que, will it then just 10 v 10 or 25 v 10?

Your first example is correct. For your second example, the battle would be 25 Horde vs. 10 Alliance.

1) Will Tol'Barad flag players between battles on PvE servers? Please say yes!
2) Will flying mounts be disabled in the zone when the battle isn't taking place?

The current plan is for Tol Barad to function like Wintergrasp with regard to your questions. So it will be a PvP zone at all times and flight will be disabled once the battle begins.

If your realm has a hilarious faction imbalance, the overpopulated faction will be kicked in the stones for actually participating!

also no Tenacity hoo-ray
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