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[Bleck]

A single month of cable TV costs between three to five months of wow

sounds like you're getting ripped off brah

[Rico]

Mongrel, it is entirely possible in the US to work 60+ hours a week above the table and still be under the poverty line.  While one could make the argument that they should be spending an extra 20 in night classes or something to get promoted, at some point that fun word absurdum has to creep in.  

[Pacobird]

People in school are held to a different standard than those who are not, because they have an inordinately larger amount of free time to fritter away.  Otherwise, you're engaged in fulltime employment or ought to be working on getting it rather than playing WoW, wouldn't you agree?

I mean, if there's any such thing as objectively correct behavior; if there isn't, knock yourself out, but frankly I am not going to have a lot of sympathy when you starve to death.

[Pacobird]

Mongrel, it is entirely possible in the US to work 60+ hours a week above the table and still be under the poverty line.  While one could make the argument that they should be spending an extra 20 in night classes or something to get promoted, at some point that fun word absurdum has to creep in.  

While that is true, concerns and sympathies for persistent wealth inequality across society have to at some level be tempered with an individual proactiveness.  Being poor doesn't make frittering your life away on meaningless bullshit any less self-destructive.

The core of Alcoholics Anonymous is taking responsibility for your past actions and ownership of your future.  That's what the 12 Steps/One Day at a Time rhetoric is all about.  While I would not argue that people of a lower socioeconomic class are more prone to addiction due to environmental factors (and will likely suffer more for it, re: comments I've made elsewhere about wealth), alcoholism itself isn't any less pathological if you're rich, and making excuses based on your environment, whether they are accurate or not, is counterproductive.

[Rico]

sounds like you're getting ripped off brah

Comcast quote for my area is that—barring the bullshit local package for people who want broadcast channels but can't get a signal—is $29.99 per month for the least number of channels possible, and that price is if you subscribe to their phone or Internet services.  

[Rico]

Being poor doesn't make frittering your life away on meaningless bullshit any less self-destructive.

True, but it was a non-personal example to someone who was likely completely unfamiliar with parts of the US economy as to how someone can have a job or multiple jobs, have it not be super-reasonable for him to spend all his extra time bettering himself, and have the relative costs of gaming still matter.

I mean, if you really want I could bring up how I'm in management in a national company, maintain a comfortable standard of living, a girlfriend, go out a couple times a week and still don't feel comfortable buying more than one retail-priced game every other month or so.

[Bleck]

Comcast

 

[Rico]

"Oh fuck, he's taking his examples from the largest cable provider in the country, and the one from whom a lot of people don't have another choice!  Better pop in some graphics to pretend my post wasn't fucking retarded!"

[Hraedon]

People in school are held to a different standard than those who are not, because they have an inordinately larger amount of free time to fritter away.  Otherwise, you're engaged in fulltime employment or ought to be working on getting it rather than playing WoW, wouldn't you agree?

I mean, if there's any such thing as objectively correct behavior; if there isn't, knock yourself out, but frankly I am not going to have a lot of sympathy when you starve to death.

I dread the standards of behavior required to elicit your sympathy.

Ultimately, I'm not arguing that there is no such thing as wow addiction, or that any level of play is acceptable. I just think your definitions of unacceptable levels of time commitment are aggressively narrow, particularly when compared to equally valueless time sinks that are more socially acceptable.

sounds like you're getting ripped off brah

Thank you for your contribution to this forum

Mongrel (edit: and Paco, apparently; glad to see that patrician judgment going strong): I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the argument that the poor are obligated to toil endlessly, devoting every cent to living responsibly. Maybe that would be what is best, but hey, maybe our society could focus a little more on mitigating inequality rather than moralizing about how lazy and irresponsible poor people are. Perfect worlds and all that, right?

[Bleck]

"Oh fuck, he's taking his examples from the largest cable provider in the country,

Because if it's the largest then it must be the cheapest!

and the one from whom a lot of people don't have another choice!

 

[Pacobird]

Ultimately, I'm not arguing that there is no such thing as wow addiction, or that any level of play is acceptable. I just think your definitions of unacceptable levels of time commitment are aggressively narrow, particularly when compared to equally valueless time sinks that are more socially acceptable.

Again, do I need to explain why addiction is bad?

[Hraedon]

"Oh fuck, he's taking his examples from the largest cable provider in the country,

Because if it's the largest then it must be the cheapest!

and the one from whom a lot of people don't have another choice!

 

I'm glad that you find satisfaction in picking nits rather than addressing the substance of the argument.

If it helps you to move beyond this asinine point, then disregard cable tv as an example and replace it with, I don't know, going to a movie with a friend or girlfriend. Of course, if your argument then becomes "dollar theaters and no snacks, brah!", I guess I will just ignore all further posts from you.

Again, do I need to explain why addiction is bad?

You could just convince me that what constitutes your definition of being addicted to wow is not horseshit. That'd be a fine place to start.

[Bleck]

I'm glad that you find satisfaction in picking nits rather than addressing the substance of the argument.

If it helps you to move beyond this asinine point, then disregard cable tv as an example and replace it with, I don't know, going to a movie with a friend or girlfriend.

here let me address both examples at once

Can somebody find for me some examples of people addicted to cable TV or to going to movies?

[Norondor]

and the one from whom a lot of people don't have another choice!

 

Most of Tucson, AZ has only one choice of cable provider. Were you unaware that the perfect, ideal capitalist society of informed consumer choice never existed?

Rhetorical question, i know; you're just another useless fucking moron. But still, i have to ask.

[Doom]

Can somebody find for me some examples of people addicted to cable TV

Should I just hold up a picture of the United States of America or what

[Bleck]

Can somebody find for me some examples of people addicted to cable TV

Should I just hold up a picture of the United States of America or what

I guess you can consider people addicted to the radio if they always have it on somewhere?

Most of Tucson, AZ has only one choice of cable provider.

So wait, let me summarize thus far.

'guys wow is addictive and poop'
'tucson arizona can only get cable from one place'

I know there is probably a bunch of junk in between of those two but unfortunately I can only try to fit so much stupidity in one post at once!

[Hraedon]

I'm glad that you find satisfaction in picking nits rather than addressing the substance of the argument.

If it helps you to move beyond this asinine point, then disregard cable tv as an example and replace it with, I don't know, going to a movie with a friend or girlfriend.

here let me address both examples at once

Can somebody find for me some examples of people addicted to cable TV or to going to movies?

Could you miss the fucking point any harder? I'm not arguing that wow addiction is not a bad thing. I'm not arguing that wow addiction is something that does not exist. I'm arguing that defining wow addiction as playing far fewer hours a week than the typical person watches TV is ridiculous.

The money argument was a tangential point relating to the idea that wow is an inefficient use of whatever leisure budget someone describing themselves as "broke" has. I don't accept the argument that poor people are to be condemned if they do anything other than what maximizes their economic output, and my examples were to demonstrate that wow is a rational choice to get a relatively high value for your entertainment dollar.

[Norondor]

Bleck. Fuck off. Not even joking with you.

[sei]

WoW is actually pretty cheap compared to a traditional gaming hobby.

I agree with this, but I have a quibble.

Most gamers can't imagine "only" getting a new game every month. That's $50-60 a month, $30-40 if you "just" scratch with a hand-held title.

You're ignoring gamefly, which is admittedly a pretty new development.

(also yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr)

[Bleck]

I'm glad that you find satisfaction in picking nits rather than addressing the substance of the argument.

If it helps you to move beyond this asinine point, then disregard cable tv as an example and replace it with, I don't know, going to a movie with a friend or girlfriend.

here let me address both examples at once

Can somebody find for me some examples of people addicted to cable TV or to going to movies?

Could you miss the fucking point any harder? I'm not arguing that wow addiction is not a bad thing. I'm not arguing that wow addiction is something that does not exist. I'm arguing that defining wow addiction as playing far fewer hours a week than the typical person watches TV is ridiculous.

And my point was that watching TV and playing a video game are two separate, sort of incomparable things. You'd have to get into specifics of whether watching TV includes having it on in the background, being asleep in front of it, owning a TV, etc.

I gamble that if you tone it down to people who are just sitting in front of a TV, doing absolutely nothing else, the rates of addiction - addiction in this case meaning to a degree of self-destruction - would be negligible at best. And even then, that's assuming that every case of obesity in North America is directly related to TV watching and has nothing to do with general lack of exercize or the invention of the deep fried Twinkie.

wow is a rational choice to get a relatively high value for your entertainment dollar.

My response to this is that WoW is still a pretty bad game. Somebody is going to make some piddly argument about how what they like defines good and how the ideas of bad taste and quality don't actually, but that's to be expected.

Also how much does Comcast charge for an internet package? Does it come with a free computer, too? I should hope so, or the whole 'cable costs more' argument falls apart pretty quickly.