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Author Topic: I Hate WoW!  (Read 27427 times)

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Rico

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #160 on: February 11, 2010, 02:06:22 PM »

Pointing out that your first troll was posted after two posts from each side of the money "debate", which kind of invalidates the comfort defense of "HAHA STILL ARGUNG!!!"
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Doom

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #161 on: February 11, 2010, 02:08:06 PM »

Bleck, I actually told you about two hours ago that you should just bow out and save what's left of your face.

But hey, now we're left with two possibilities:

1) You're this dumb.

2) You're this bad at trolling.
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Norondor

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #162 on: February 11, 2010, 02:10:22 PM »

Go away, you stupid fucking faggot. Why are you on the boards? Who invited you? Are you one of Lyrai's friends, or friends-of-friends? I'm trying to figure out, seriously, 1) why you are posting 2) if anyone tolerates you because of IRL or something and if not 3) WHY YOU ARE POSTING, you rotten little fucker.
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Bleck

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #163 on: February 11, 2010, 02:11:21 PM »

1) You're this dumb.

2) You're this bad at trolling.

How can someone be bad at trolling? I mean, Norondor seems pretty pissed, right?
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Rico

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #164 on: February 11, 2010, 02:13:09 PM »

You act as if it's an accomplishment to make Norondor type angry things over the Internet.
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Norondor

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #165 on: February 11, 2010, 02:15:37 PM »

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Norondor

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #166 on: February 11, 2010, 02:15:58 PM »

PS you're a fucking fatass.
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Bleck

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #167 on: February 11, 2010, 02:16:37 PM »

So Norondor is trolling me by pretending that he is reacting terribly to me supposedly trying to troll him?

...whoa.
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Rico

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #168 on: February 11, 2010, 02:20:37 PM »

I am pretty sure that on more than one distinct occasion Norondor has sequentially: killed a man in real life for not doing anything while übercharged; baked a delicious cake for Norondor's friends and family.
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Doom

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #169 on: February 11, 2010, 02:42:45 PM »

Quote
How can someone be bad at trolling?



Eh, you could try to back-pedal your way out of a thread by pretending you were trolling after convincing everybody who reads the thread that you're a drooling retard. How could that backfire?
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Bleck

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #170 on: February 11, 2010, 02:53:46 PM »

But I wasn't convincing anybody I was trolling.
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Doom

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #171 on: February 11, 2010, 03:05:54 PM »

Ah, so you're actually a fool? An important distinction.
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Pacobird

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #172 on: February 11, 2010, 03:07:20 PM »

My slapdash definition of addiction is a repeated, learned behavior that consistently supplants more societally-acceptable endeavors.

Not a perfect definition, but it will do for my purposes because it encompasses the catch-all psychological consequence of addiction: isolation.  This started with "wow is better than friends", after all.
You mean the people I go to Mormon retreatskill dragons with aren't friends?

oops my social system is online and it is socially unacceptable to bail on my guild lol

There's nothing inherently wrong with having an online social system, no.

I don't judge the fifty-year-old functional heroin addict I worked with at a dorm cafeteria in college, either, as long as he doesn't mind the fact that he's pushing sixty now and still working at a dorm cafeteria.
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Hraedon

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #173 on: February 11, 2010, 03:11:51 PM »

REEFER WORLD OF WARCRAFT MADNESS
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Bleck

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #174 on: February 11, 2010, 03:14:02 PM »

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Pacobird

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #175 on: February 11, 2010, 03:15:31 PM »

REEFER WORLD OF WARCRAFT MADNESS

So det's post about wow players being boring to talk to was wrong?

EDIT: Thomas Szasz's theories of addiction might be helpful here.  Not saying I'm totally on board with him, but basically he says people can and do make rational decisions to engage in and continue self-destructive behaviors for no other reason than that they enjoy them, and that enjoyment outweighs the benefits of a low-risk lifestyle.  Society only labels these "addictions" because it stigmatizes those behaviors to begin with; no one would accuse a nun of being addicted to helping homeless people.  While society doesn't really have a right to judge anyone's life choices so long as they don't hurt anyone but themselves (this is rarely the case, incidentally), it is also totally delusional to think the addict has "no choice" but to keep using; if that were so, nobody would ever kick a habit.

The important thing here is that on some level, an addict wants to be an addict.  No matter how much I watch Tom Sizemore blubber about how his life's a wreck on Dr. Drew's Celebrity Rehab, I know he's going to start using again the second he gets out of there.  You know why?  Because he has nothing else.  

You all seem so offended by the idea that I'd dare to suggest there might be more worthwhile ways to spend your freetime than WoW, but the whole reason addicts relapse is because they never decide there's anything better to life than the drugs, and really, where do any of these other self-righteous assholes get off judging them?  Don't they know what the addict has been through?

...


Don't they?
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Shinra

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #176 on: February 11, 2010, 03:25:58 PM »

Quote
Ultimately, I'm not arguing that there is no such thing as wow addiction, or that any level of play is acceptable. I just think your definitions of unacceptable levels of time commitment are aggressively narrow, particularly when compared to equally valueless time sinks that are more socially acceptable.

Again, do I need to explain why addiction is bad?

You still haven't explained how this is addiction.

Let me go over addiction.

My father, from the day I was born, until he died two days before christmas last year, was an addict. He cashed in the savings bonds that were supposed to go towards my college education to buy cocaine and heroine. He brought my brother and I to drug deals on the way to school or the way back from restaurants because he couldn't wait long enough to drop us off and go back to his dealer. My parents divorced when I was six, because my father's drug and alcohol induced mood swings were severely violent and unpredictable. He'd often beat my mom in front of my brother and I, and more than once one of them ended up in the hospital because of it. The divorce put my dad into an extremely deep depression - I watched my dad waste away, at a young age, on severe alcohol and drug abuse until he finally overdosed on heroine and went into the hospital.

I watched my dad, nearly dead in a hospital bed, pale as a ghost, shaking and shivering, and I was six years old. Today, it's one of my most vivid memories. For a few years my dad went sober, fell off the wagon, and began drinking and using again around the time I was 16 - I was living with him at the time. During that time he gave up all other pursuits - he requested a layoff at work (he was in tight with management) so he could collect unemployment and spent the remainder of his time sitting on his ass in the living room watching NASCAR and getting drunk.

He experienced mood swings at the time whenever he came down off his drugs but his inhibitions and common sense were fucked off from all the booze he was drinking, so he started to become violent. On five occasions in two months he attacked me, the final of which he wrestled me to the floor, punched me in the face twice and attempted to choke me out. I left my dad's house that day and didn't come back.

Over the next 8 years I talked to my dad a total of about 15 times - I intentionally avoided speaking to him, seeing him, or calling him because his addiction had ruined my childhood - and years later, came back and ruined the relationship I had built with my father. Talking to him was a painful experience, because if he wasn't high, he was going through the shakes and couldn't carry on a conversation. On three occasions he went into rehab because of heroine or cocaine or both.

In late October/Early november I went to michigan to see my mother. At this point, my father called me - in a drug induced, rambling fit, he insulted me, told me I was a horrible dissapointment, and complained at length about how much of a pain in the ass I was when I was living with him. I hung up. The next day he called and half-heartedly apologized to me, before trying to solicit my help with a computer problem. I blew him off and never called him back. That was the last time I spoke with my father.

That is addiction, Paco, and if you knew addiction, you wouldn't be using this fucking word to define a harmless fucking hobby. Addiction is something that RUINS LIVES. And I'm not going to argue that WoW hasn't ruined a few - but there is a huge fucking difference between 'Spending a few hours a day playing a game I enjoy' and 'Giving up everything in my life, including friends, family, and work, to play a game I stopped really enjoying a long time ago'. I have met hundreds of WoW players, and of them, only two I've ever considered addicted.

One of them happens to be my own father in law - who quit his job, got diabetes, became obese, and is now developing bed sores because of his addiction. The game is fucking misery to him, but he won't try to do anything else - part of them is because of a severe disability he has had since he was a child, but he won't even try another game. He has to play WoW. Between the game and his medication he is consistently in a foul mood. His life consists of getting up, playing wow until he has too severe a headache to do so anymore, and then either going to bed or watching TV for a few hours - WoW consists of literally 90% of all of his free time. Why, when he is so miserable, does he devote so much time to WoW? BECAUSE AN ADDICT WILL FOREGO EVERYTHING ELSE TO ENGAGE IN THEIR ADDICTION. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MINOR ADDICT.

An addict will do something without any concern for their own health or safety, or the health or safety of others, and eschew everything in favor of that addiction whenever possible. This is the danger of getting addicted to WoW, because it is so cheap and accessible, an inordinate amount of time can be spent pursuing this addiction. One of my former GM's best friends died because of MMO addiction - they got diabetes from their sedentary lifestyle and eating habits, were obese, got a sore on their leg from not moving enough, the sore became gangrenous, they lost their leg, the healing let got infected, the infection spread and they died.

THIS is the problem I have with you guys throwing around the word addiction. You don't know what it fucking means, and it's fucking offensive to those of us who HAVE had our lives affected by a real addict. There is a huge difference between casual use and problem use of anything - be it illicit substances or escapism. You guys are consistently confusing differences in prioritization between two persons with addiction, and it has to fucking stop.



Edit:  :tldr: summary? If a WoW player is only engaging in WoW 20% of their free time (15 hours) then they're not a fucking addict by any stretch of the imagination.
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Romosome

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Shinra

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Bleck

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Re: I Hate WoW!
« Reply #179 on: February 11, 2010, 03:47:21 PM »

I think Shinra's definition of addiction is pretty undeniable.

My question is, how do we determine where the fault lies? Several people have pointed out - and I think it's pretty hard to argue with - that WoW, or rather MMOs in general, are designed to hook the player in. Several more people have pointed out how WoW is cheap and easily accessible.

When does it become okay to judge something for being addictive instead of the person who was addicted? Does the fact that not too many people have become fatally addicted to it absolve it of basically providing another cheap way for people with addictive personalities to destroy themselves?
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