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[JDigital]

I do like Iron Heroes. I was going to run Iron Heroes, but then D&D4E came out and everyone knows you can't run an old RPG once a new one is out

[Lottel]

Not without being one of those guys

[Frocto]

I can't think of a single thing Iron Heroes does that 4e doesn't do better.

[JDigital]

I like the focus on martial classes and the tokens based powers system. Iron Heroes is something different to D&D.

[Büge]

I play the Idiot Card in face-up position!

It seems Wotsy is bringing back the Deck Of Many Things for 4th Edition. Like most of the updates for 4th, I'm torn about this one. It's all but eliminated the terror and drama of accidentally drawing one of the horrible or swingy cards like The Flames or Balance by making them into a minor setback with a quest attached. It seems like they've put it at a level where it will actually see play, but it doesn't seem open ended anymore. Sigh.

[Frocto]

I was sort of toying with the idea of doing a regular rpg thing where I run the worst systems I can find, each in a short one-two session adventure. What are some of the worst systems you have played?

[TA]

In my experience, the more traditional Deck of Many Things was an awesome thing in theory, but in practice became the GM saying "I am bored of this campaign.  Let's start over."

[Burrito Al Pastor]

I was sort of toying with the idea of doing a regular rpg thing where I run the worst systems I can find, each in a short one-two session adventure. What are some of the worst systems you have played?

Honestly? I've reached the point in my gaming philosophy that I can't actually think of a system that I can actually describe as bad - there may be elements of systems that were bad, but as a whole, the worst I can say for any system I can think of is that it doesn't provide the experience I want.

You could try Iron Kingdoms, which was a disastrous mechanical implementation of a great idea and setting. Or you could try a 3rd edition GURPS game with mecha and vehicles. Those are proven mechanical clusterfucks.

Thematically... Wheel of Time d20? And demand that your players have read the entire series of books before playing the game? That would be terrible.

In my experience, the more traditional Deck of Many Things was an awesome thing in theory, but in practice became the GM saying "I am bored of this campaign.  Let's start over."

This is my experience also.


In other news, I'm in a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3rd Edition game, and I am super-impressed by it. It is, in basically every way, everything that 4th edition tried and failed to do.

[Shinra]

I play the Idiot Card in face-up position!

It seems Wotsy is bringing back the Deck Of Many Things for 4th Edition. Like most of the updates for 4th, I'm torn about this one. It's all but eliminated the terror and drama of accidentally drawing one of the horrible or swingy cards like The Flames or Balance by making them into a minor setback with a quest attached. It seems like they've put it at a level where it will actually see play, but it doesn't seem open ended anymore. Sigh.

I really hate all of these changes to existing fuck you stuff in D&D; I honestly feel like 4th edition is just taking old content and watering it down for 12 year olds and adult manchildren who grew up with games with infinite continues and no concept of danger or loss.

In 1e/2e, a deck of many things was an item players wanted to find. Yes, it could result in losing your character permanently, with no save, but it could also result in you gaining a couple of levels, becoming rich beyond your wildest dreams, gaining a boost to a stat, gaining 1d4 wishes, etc - in an edition that was based almost entirely on low level play, any of the beneficial rewards from the deck could be potentially gamechanging, and you had better chances of a good result than a bad one.

In 3e, the game's focus shifted to high level play, which made the deck not worth it, but if you put it smack dab in a low level / low magic game, it was still a powerful item with powerful disadvantages.

If they're going to put the deck in, they either need to make it just as much of a potential fuck you, or not bother with it at all.

[Frocto]

I challenge your No Bad Systems claim with Puppetland, The Window, RIFTS, the Ninja Turtles RPG, BESM 1st Edition and the more obvious examples of World of Synnibar and That Game With The Circumferences.

[jsnlxndrlv]

I was sort of toying with the idea of doing a regular rpg thing where I run the worst systems I can find, each in a short one-two session adventure. What are some of the worst systems you have played?

What follows is a list of roleplaying systems I have access to and can send you (one way or another). Considering how you've reacted to my suggestions in the past, I can only conclude these games would likely be valid candidates for inclusion on your list.

• Awesome Women Kicking Ass — a story game about awesome women who kick ass
• MSG — a game for professionals
• Lacuna — Part 1. The Creation Of The Mystery And The Girl From Blue City
• Microscope — a game for making history
• Age of Heroes — Adventures in High Fantasy
• Groovy Gaming System — a system for running asynchronous role-playing games
• GURPS Lite — I guess one of my roommates who didn't have a computer of his own put this on mine so he could play in some Vampire: The Masquerade-themed GURPS game

Kind of surprised I didn't find more squirreled away in the unused corners of my hard disk.

[Burrito Al Pastor]

I challenge your No Bad Systems claim with Puppetland, The Window, RIFTS, the Ninja Turtles RPG, BESM 1st Edition and the more obvious examples of World of Synnibar and That Game With The Circumferences.

Sorry. I meant to say "that I've played" somewhere in there; I've never played any of those.

...But actually, I really and truly do want to try RIFTS, Ninja Turtles, and Synnibar some time. Especially RIFTS.

[Frocto]

Honestly? I've reached the point in my gaming philosophy that I can't actually think of a system that I can actually describe as bad - there may be elements of systems that were bad, but as a whole, the worst I can say for any system I can think of is that it doesn't provide the experience I want - that I've played!

Doesn't really work, does it?

Considering how you've reacted to my suggestions in the past, I can only conclude these games would likely be valid candidates for inclusion on your list.

Well, did you like them? If you did, then, yeah, they are probably the sort of things I would regard with open revulsion. We might have something to work with here.

[jsnlxndrlv]

I think I might be infatuated with the Groovy Gaming System.

I don't know or care about GURPS.

I liked MSG, Lacuna, and Age of Heroes; the other games are cool, but I can't say I like them unconditionally.

[Zach]

I challenge your No Bad Systems claim with Puppetland,

Oh no you didn't! This is the premier system for running Jewish puppets in WWII ghetto fantasy-lands.

Dipping into the pool of 24-hour RPGs and Game Chef entries should provide more than enough choices. I'd be interested in joining in, assuming that nothing actually happens until mid-May or so.

[Büge]

I was sort of toying with the idea of doing a regular rpg thing where I run the worst systems I can find, each in a short one-two session adventure. What are some of the worst systems you have played?

Roll for anal circumference.

[Shinra]

as I understand it, FATAL is actually literally unplayable. Like, there are rules for everything but actually resolving combat.

[Frocto]

Oh, I should clarify something about Ninja Turtles.

Under the default rules, which since it's a Palladium rpg, are the ONLY rules, your mutant race is randomly determined.

Our party ended up being an armour-plated hippopotamus, a twelve foot tall rhinoceros and... a chicken.

I COULDN'T EVEN FUCKING FLY

[JDigital]

Actually, FATAL has 28 pages on combat. Whether you'd want to play with such convoluted rules is another matter.

Three pages describe damage modifiers based on armour type. Ten pages cover attacks to body parts, including eight pages of tables for critical wounds. There are three pages on fumbles and a full page describing how your dead body decomposes.

The base combat rules are as so:

[Mongrel]

a full page describing how your dead body decomposes.