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Author Topic: Applepocalypse  (Read 45095 times)

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TA

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #220 on: June 03, 2010, 12:25:07 PM »

Streaming video.  Streaming music.  Cloud computing.  Metered service basically kills these as possibilities.

Depending on your plan, watching an HD movie on your iPad over 3G will cost between $200 and $1500.
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Catloaf

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #221 on: June 03, 2010, 12:46:19 PM »

Which is why you go to starbucks or leech of your neighbors wifi like the cheapskates who bought the wifi only version of the magic floor tile.
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Shinra

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #222 on: June 03, 2010, 01:41:13 PM »

The problem is that the main selling point of the 600+ dollar  3g magic floor tile is 3g internet anywhere you go. Given that even a cheap, shitty 3g aircard is a hundred bucks off contract, you can't tell me that's not being rolled into the sticker price of the product you paid for. Imposing the bandwidth cap on the iPad is hamstringing it as a multimedia platform, despite multimedia being (as far as I can tell) the main point of the goddamn platform.



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TA

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #223 on: June 03, 2010, 01:44:30 PM »

Oh, and also the video conferencing feature that is going to be one of the bigger selling points of the next iPhone.  That's gonna tear through these bandwidth caps pretty damn fast.
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Shinra

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #224 on: June 03, 2010, 01:47:43 PM »

I'm really just waiting for Apple to get on board with CDMA and move to sprint or verizon. The iPhone has been on the wrong network since day 1 - GSM is years behind on data and multimedia and isn't likely to catch up anytime soon.
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Aintaer

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #225 on: June 03, 2010, 01:52:21 PM »

I recently heard that Google was going to phase out using Windows in house because of security problems.  My first thought was "Oh, so their going onto their own OS."  Then the article mentioned they weren't phasing out the use of macs or linux.  Fuck, I would think google of all companies would realize that Macs aren't actually safer, they just have less viruses because historically they haven't been used as much, especially in the areas that virus makers would target and they haven't switched over yet because windows still has more of the OS market share even if Apple is now officially worth more.  And that goes double for linux, which is the least safe because of it being open source.

First of all, what. The heterogeneity of their computing environment definitely more "safe" than a homogeneous one in that the same attack method would not compromise multiple environments. However it does increase the pool of vulnerabilities their IT department must keep up with. Phasing Windows out would reduce Google's vulnerability to blind drive-by attacks, but it would not decrease Google's vulnerability to dedicated attacks, usually catered toward the targets in question. This then places emphasis on the OS itself.

Contrary to your uninformed opinion. Linux is probably the safest option, given a competent IT team. Options like SELinux and AppArmor provide kernel-space protection against application hijacking. Windows kernels since Vista provides the same kinds of protection via application privilege tables. But the kicker there is that individual applications must be coded to use the new Vista-era APIs to actually gain that kind of protection. Guess who was caught not using them? ALL POPULAR ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE, except Microsoft's own. This, I wager, is the reason why Google's IT department wants to move away from Windows. 3rd party software on the platform is difficult to review. Despite all this, Microsoft's internal practices surrounding security is actually pretty good these days. So if you are using Vista or 7 and stick to only 1st party software, you're mostly okay, maybe?

The real devil is Mac OS X. Despite it being one of the True Descendants of Unix (off BSD 4 or something IIRC), Apple really hasn't done much to ensure that the platform is secure. They've mostly spent their time and efforts on issuing DMCA threats to keep OS X on Apple hardware maintaining the Apple Experience. They provide very nice development tools and APIs but it is always for the New rather than the Safe.

And that is what the iPad essentially is: New. The primary reason why Apple is consistently able to sell well is not because of their value proposition nor really their UI work. It's that they're marketing New Toys for Grownups. These devices are not technically superior to many other products on the market in the same price range. But Apple's work is not to offer superior products for less, but rather inferior products for more. Inferior technically but much more approachable to the Average Man. So with that in mind, I would argue that AT&T limiting the bandwidth does NOT actually impact iPhones/iPads for the general populace. Apple is only selling this image of what is capable with this toy. The majority consumers don't necessarily fill this image of streaming media on the go with the cloud making rainbows and unicorns sprout out of Apples magic slab. They, by purchasing this thing, don't purchase its function, but rather its image. And it's quite evident given AT&T's statistics showing the vast majority of iPhone users clocking in less than 200 MB/mo.
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Brentai

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #226 on: June 03, 2010, 03:34:40 PM »

Actually, that's what's hurting them MORE: the perception that the data cap is limiting the device in ways that it actually isn't.  I actually agree with Det's rebuttal: most homes are equipped with Wi-Fi, and the Pad is only portable if it doesn't happen to be a sunny day.  This hasn't stopped the ame tech blogs that have been sucking Jobs' jobs for weeks from proclaiming the cap's going to render their shit useless, though.
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Aintaer

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #227 on: June 03, 2010, 03:50:21 PM »

Hurt who, Apple? Oh I think they'll be quite alright. First, the people who would cry about this have some understanding of technical parlance. And that they cry about the iPad at all would indicate they care, and very likely own an iPad already. What exactly will this hurt? iPad sales? Do you really see these people returning their iPads because they don't like AT&T's plan?

It would be different if the general hype around iPads turned around into a do-nothing piece of plastic but that is far from the public perception. All this does is put the onus on AT&T.
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Brentai

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #228 on: June 03, 2010, 04:50:17 PM »

I know they're not selling iPads at a loss, but I'm pretty still Apple still makes the bulk of its money from app and music retail.  Besides being, you know, data, it means that they can't exactly drop aftermarket support.
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teg

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #229 on: June 03, 2010, 05:40:29 PM »

I am reading this thread on an iPod Touch to be ironic.
B)
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Thad

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #230 on: June 03, 2010, 09:15:39 PM »

Pretty much spent the last three years bombarding us with advertisements where the competition is characterized by a dumpy loser with every problem imaginable.

But so much more LIKEABLE than the other guy.

Man, I reaaaally hate Jobs. Which is problematic since I try and keep moderate opinions about this Apple business (they make great products you may or may not care about and a very solid OS and blahblahblah)... He's just such a dick...

I don't like Microsoft, but it's pretty hard to say anything bad about what Bill Gates has been up to for the past decade.

Fuck, I would think google of all companies would realize that Macs aren't actually safer, they just have less viruses because historically they haven't been used as much, especially in the areas that virus makers would target and they haven't switched over yet because windows still has more of the OS market share even if Apple is now officially worth more.  And that goes double for linux, which is the least safe because of it being open source.

I am going to fucking punch you in your face.
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Detonator

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #231 on: June 03, 2010, 09:39:20 PM »

Fuck, I would think google of all companies would realize that Macs aren't actually safer, they just have less viruses because historically they haven't been used as much, especially in the areas that virus makers would target and they haven't switched over yet because windows still has more of the OS market share even if Apple is now officially worth more.  And that goes double for linux, which is the least safe because of it being open source.

I am going to fucking punch you in your face.

No, don't!  If you do, your fist will turn stupid!
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Thad

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #232 on: June 03, 2010, 09:57:05 PM »

...okay, okay, this being Real World or whatever it is now, I should probably elaborate instead of just express rage.  Aintaer already did the bulk of the lifting, but here goes:

Open-source software is not inherently less secure than closed-source software; security through obscurity is a myth.  Fuzzing software works just fine on binaries, and the notion that IE6 was more secure than the pre-Firefox browser of the day is absurd.

Yes, having access to source code makes it easier to find vulnerabilities.  But that works both ways: you don't just have people searching for vulnerabilities in order to exploit them, you also have people searching for them in order to fix them.  There's a maxim in the open-source world: Given enough eyes, all bugs are shallow.  The upshot is, Firefox reports more vulnerabilities than IE does, but patches them quicker.  Like, usually within a week.

There IS something to the argument that MS is a bigger target and therefore more vulnerabilities are found.  However, as IE6's share shrinks, it's still the most exploited browser (as in the Google case that started this shitstorm).

I'm not sure I'd agree with the notion that OSX itself is unsecure, but its two most important apps, Safari and iTunes, are.
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Zaratustra

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #233 on: June 03, 2010, 10:42:18 PM »

I thought any unix-based system was inherently safer than windows merely by the fact admin access is built into both the OS and file system, as opposed to the equivalent of a plastic shell and a polite "do not touch" letter over privileged files Windows uses.

Kayin

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #234 on: June 03, 2010, 11:48:43 PM »

Yeah, funny how that works with Bill. People on Slashdot were joking that Borg Bill needed to be replaced with Borg Jobs the other day. Apple is a pretty scary company right now, products aside. I'm wondering how this is going to pan out for them.
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Brentai

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #235 on: June 04, 2010, 12:33:15 AM »

The basic argument is the one originally posed by Douglas Adams: "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair."

This is probably true in Apple's case, in which, as I've illustrated before, the typical guru's first instinct when confronted with a technical failure is to simply believe that it's not possible.

I really doubt this is the case with Linux, though, for a couple major reasons:
* The ability to monitor, fix, and protect against potential problems is built directly into the kernel, not into a layer slapped over at runtime.
* Not having any closed-off or black box parts of the system makes it easier to find holes and/or monitor what's going on.
* In terms of support, the people who manage to make money off of *nix generally do so by offering their services, so there's no lack of qualified analysts there.

The one argument I would say is valid is that once a hack is enacted in a *nix environment through the most preferred method - social engineering - it's probably easier to pull crap than in a Windows environment, simply because having valid credentials and a working knowledge of the system virtually guarantees that you won't run into any problems that you can't have foreseen, unlike Microsoft's stuff that generally protects itself under a cloud of garbage that even the authorized user is unaware of.
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Royal☭

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #236 on: June 04, 2010, 04:42:38 AM »

This is probably true in Apple's case, in which, as I've illustrated before, the typical guru's first instinct when confronted with a technical failure is to simply believe that it's not possible.

Fun story, at a party about a month ago I was talking to a friend of mine about the stability and performance of the iPhone.  Guy is a Mac geek, first adopter on the iPad, does everything on a MacBook, developed an app for the iPhone, once worked as an "Apple Genius" at a Mac store.  I tell him "You know, I've actually had more crashes on my iPhone than I have on Windows 7.  The thing crashes probably once a day." 

Which is true.  Whether it's Safari, iTunes or a 3rd party app, my iPhone constantly hangs up, chokes, outright shuts down or just refuses to load certain programs, my iPhone has shown an amazing ability to be the opposite of what the tech world wants to claim it is.  I won't say my iPhone doesn't get a lot of use, but I only have about 3 pages of apps and rarely fill up the HD.  But on a frequent basis, shit just don't work.  And this is ignores various bugs that come with updates, such as the time that 3G data connection just halted after 15 minutes of use until I rebooted the phone.

Anyway, I tell the guy that I have problems with the iPhone, and maybe it is isn't as stable or wonderful as Steve Jobs and all the Mac faithful claim it is.  His response is to straight up deny this.  "That's impossible, the iPhone doesn't crash" he tells me.  I remind him, I use the thing everyday (as an aside, the iPhone's profound affect on the way I use the toilet cannot be measured) and at least once during the day I'll get something minor, such as a program refusing to load or at worst the entire thing needs a hard reboot to get functioning again.  But he sticks to his guns, claiming that something must be defective, crashes don't happen, that shit just don't exist.

I think this illustrates how typical Mac geeks operate.

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #237 on: June 04, 2010, 05:01:41 AM »

Well, to be fair, their survival partially depends on an unshattered mystique.

The three pillars holding up Apple's fortunes are 'cool for the cool kids', 'easy as sliced bread', and 'shit just works'. Knocking away any one of those things means you start to see more sober feature-by-feature comparisons to Windows or Linux products (since they don't seem so different anymore), which starts to shine some glaring light onto things that they're not so good at.
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Zaratustra

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #238 on: June 04, 2010, 01:42:16 PM »

Android leaves itself wide open:



Presumably taking a shot that's big enough to read will be covered in a second article.

Thad

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Re: Applepocalypse
« Reply #239 on: June 04, 2010, 10:43:22 PM »

I thought any unix-based system was inherently safer than windows merely by the fact admin access is built into both the OS and file system, as opposed to the equivalent of a plastic shell and a polite "do not touch" letter over privileged files Windows uses.

That too, yes, absolutely.

Something that's come to vex me about Win7 privilege escalation: it's not sudo-like, it's su-like.  As in, I'm not running an installer as Thad with temporarily-heightened privileges, I'm running it as a completely separate Administrator account.

Which might be okay if the fucking "Run this program now" checkbox was removed from every single goddamn Windows installer in the universe, but since it isn't, I wind up constantly inadvertently setting up programs under the wrong user account.

The basic argument is the one originally posed by Douglas Adams: "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair."

In fairness, he was also the world's biggest Apple fan.

* The ability to monitor, fix, and protect against potential problems is built directly into the kernel, not into a layer slapped over at runtime.
* Not having any closed-off or black box parts of the system makes it easier to find holes and/or monitor what's going on.

Very, VERY true on the iPhone.  As for OSX, not sure I buy it -- it IS running on an open-source BSD kernel.

* In terms of support, the people who manage to make money off of *nix generally do so by offering their services, so there's no lack of qualified analysts there.

Apple's actually pretty widely regarded as having some of the better tech support guys out there.

The one argument I would say is valid is that once a hack is enacted in a *nix environment through the most preferred method - social engineering - it's probably easier to pull crap than in a Windows environment, simply because having valid credentials and a working knowledge of the system virtually guarantees that you won't run into any problems that you can't have foreseen, unlike Microsoft's stuff that generally protects itself under a cloud of garbage that even the authorized user is unaware of.

Not entirely sure I've parsed that right.

Situational, of course.  Shit like phishing is going to work just as well on Linux as anything, of course (though as you say, a Linux user is simply going to be more wary of them by virtue of automatically being a savvier computer user).  Malware executables, on the other hand, are dead in the water; you have to intentionally flag a file as executable before you can execute it in Linux.
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