Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Brentai]

Please do me a favor and do not discuss your desire to commit an act of terrorism on this board again, thank you.  (THAD EDIT: The post Brent is referring to here has been jailed.)

Anyway, I don't see Obama stepping down or being forced out - he's not really impeachable, and no matter how battered he gets I don't see him stepping down simply because he's winning on his pet issues.  That man couldn't give a shit less if Afghanistan imploded and Russia got all its mineral resources.  He just wants every insurance lawyer and banker in this country to fuck off.

If anything, the idea of Clinton risking her political career to overthrow him is the most likely scenario.  God knows she wants it, and in 20/20 hindsight I don't think I'm the only Democrat who's thinking "If only we have elected a raging cunt into office" right about now...

[TA]

it's way to early to run an "I like Ike" campaign for a competent ex-serviceman centrist who has experience in creating order and better-than-anarchy governance from a situation which was quite the attempted genocide

Okay, has your hatred of brown people and blind cheerleading of anything in a uniform actually taken you so far over the edge that you're proposing a President Petraeus?  Here's a hint: Realizing 30 years too late that "hearts and minds" is more than a buzzword and throwing good lives after bad with his nonsensical surge do not a political civilian leader make.

Actually, come to think of it, it's still not too late to crack a high-altitude nuclear warhead over the Saudis to ensure that the wahabbi scumbags would be closer to achieving the dream of living like the prophet...  Heck, it would be the greatest gift to the Egyptians as well, considering how close they are to being couped by the Muslim Brotherhood!  No deaths, no radiation (there's already plenty of Alpha, Beta and Gamma up there anyway), and plausible deniability:  America is an ally of the Saudis, and Israel and Saudi military cooperation has never been higher due to the Iranian threat...

Apparently you have gone completely off the deep end.  Jesus christ, do you listen to yourself?  You hate Muslims so much that you think it's a good idea to "deniably" nuke two of the more major powers in the Middle East?

[SCD]

There's a difference between firebombing the powers, and disabling their electronics, TA.  And while I have gone off the deep end, I still think that it is a much more sane tactic than fighting the insurgents on one end while giving billions of dollars to the nation which indirectly finances them with weaponry and madrassas for recruiting.  Also, at no point did I declare that I hate all Muslims nor Muslim states.  That is untrue:  Jordan is still gradually getting its act together after they dispensed with the PLO in Black September.


Also, your premise on the correct individual are incorrect as they do not reflect the character of the actual individual, but instead reflect the inferior military culture which is still in the process of being quashed.  Here are my premises on why the man would make an effective POTUS:

-The last competent republican president in the oval office was Ike
-man in question took mission that was about to fail and turned it around
-man in question has real track record of using opinions of competent individuals of all political stripes including anti-war protesters (emma sky), conservative researchers (Australian researcher D Kullian I believe...) and others
-Only book published is not a autobiographical turd basket about a possible way to fix a nation, but a instructive manual on the strategies of operating in an unconventional style of warfare which was so-well assembled that it not only worked in the nation in question, but has been adopted or adapted for use by several other allied nations
-Individual understands nature of logistics, finances, and the "political game"
-There will be no "Swiftboats against this man" campaign
-He is neither engaged, or answerable to public sector unions nor the religious right

Also, it needs to be said that I do not cheer on all people in uniform, but just these two and Odinero (Also Leslie, Natynczyk and Hillier on my home team) only for the reason of "right man in right place" versus the previous generals who mucked things up.  This is not blind faith (with likely exception to the bracketed three) as all three have proven themselves effective in endearing circumstances except for one with the media.

PS:  Thad the notion of Hillary for POTUS would be very weird.  I'm still putting beer on it like I did with myself stating in 06 to friends that the final fight of 08 would be between McCain and Obama when everyone in my realm was looking towards Clinton and some other looney.  While I have nothing credible to back this up unlike my other more controversial views, I think this one is more likely to be the case.

[Mongrel]

I don't really think EMP-ing Saudi Arabia would be a good idea for about... oh, a billion reasons.

Not least of which is that it would be even less effective against terrorists than conventional air-bombing campaigns.

Please do me a favor and do not discuss your desire to commit an act of terrorism on this board again, thank you.  (THAD EDIT: The post Brent is referring to here has been jailed.)

Whenever I see on the board summary that Catloaf has posted anything in this subforum, I just start giggling a bit.

I suppose I should clarify that that doesn't mean I WANT to see those posts, because they're... well, you know.

[SCD]

Not going after their terrorists in my happy fantasy world:  I'm going after their bankrollers. 

And yes, I understand that the largest reason why we can't emp the saudis has more to do with the US' requirement for oil than international diplomacy. 

[Mongrel]

Still wouldn't do a damn thing. Maybe you'd get a week's disruption in financial transactions. Tops. If anything. The masters of low-tech, low-budget warfare aren't about to let a mere EMP sand their gears.

And no, it's not that you can't do that because of 'oil'. You can't do that because it would make the US the first country in the history of the world to detonate a nuclear warhead as an unannounced act of aggression. In peacetime*. On an ally (however nominal).

I'm pretty sure that an act that could potentially be interpreted as a declaration of (possibly nuclear) war on the whole planet is what you might call a bad idea.

_{*They're not at war with Saudi Arabia is what I mean here.}

[SCD]

While I disagree with the effects on the finances, you are correct without a smidgen of doubt on the effects of that one. 

[Shinra]

I think the most shocking part of this entire discussion is that SCD is suggesting killing or otherwise disabling tens of millions of people to prevent them from funding terrorists who, yearly, kill fewer people in the entire world than bee stings kill in the continental united states.

In general, I don't understand the knee-jerk reaction to terrorism - sadly, it's not just SCD. Worse, the people who do have these ridiculous knee-jerk reactions tend to be people in positions of power or entire national governments, e.g. the USA, Russia and Israel. (the worst offender) If the entire point of terrorism is disruption and one of the entire points of guerrilla warfare is to make your enemy waste huge amounts of resources to get little-no results, eventually breaking their spirit, why in the name of fuck do we waste such tremendous amounts of time and energy on these anti-terrorism campaigns?

[Mongrel]

Well. They call it Terror-ism for a reason. When people call for that disproportionate response stuff, it's working as intended.

If you think about it, it's basically trolling as an operational military doctrine.

[SCD]

Shinra, the fact that you refuse to use the second person is nothing less than you trying to pretend that you are better than me and refusing that among my bombast that there are deeper issues beyond national lines. 

What scares me is that you and Mongrel do not even try to ask the purpose of terrorism in these circumstances.  Boiled down, terrorism is a series of deliberate attacks on soft civilian targets in the purpose of political or religious change using fear as its mode of operation.  While I will be the first to admit that my half-serious gestures are crazy and not a substitute to an effective longterm strategy, to act in the fashion that bill did after the US Cole by slapping the baddies on the wrist and pretending there was no problem at all was what got your nation into the mess in the second place (financing them directly being the first). 


What really scares me about your type Shinra is the lack of understanding (let alone care) of the background knowledge that drives the decisions of the people who think along my minds.  Do you care to see that every moderate islamic republic required to have a mass cleansing in order to maintain its status?  No, you wouldn't care about that.  Would you care about how certain non-islamic entities or lesser muslim entities such as the Alawi's ('lesser' being the interpretation of the "more pure" entities which just slaughtered them)?  Just as much as your type would like to admit that the party of who is considered the kingmaker in the Neitherlands after the last election was brought in due to these fears from people like myself.  Of course you wouldn't care about how those in that nation must live in fear after insulting the prophet lest end up like Van Gogh, who didn't insult the prophet but the specifics of the more theocratic society which is the nations main import at the moment. 

Wake up and realize that this is a serious debate and not something you should push off to the side as "oh, those xenophobes".  As I am a bit on the extreme side, I will not have all the solutions but to ignore these signs as a higher political power is to cede the votes of everyone who has served (and there happen to be a lot right now) and their vote to the american religious right, something I see as a lesser evil albiet an evil nonetheless.  This is no longer something you should pooh pooh due to its offensive nature. 

[McDohl]

  McChrystal, that's enough!  Petraeus, I choose you!

[Mongrel]

The fact that it's Petraeus is what turns this from catastrophe to brilliant.

Even though it's technically a demotion of sorts for Petraeus, it can only reflect amazingly well on the man. Even Obama doesn't look too bad for the decision.

Still, I hope the effect on morale isn't too devastating. It'll really depend on how well Petraeus handles that angle.


@ SCD: Who says I haven't already asked about the origins of terrorism? I just figure that dredging up that convoluted morass of a 'discussion' here is probably a form of terrorism in it's own right.

[TA]

So, you're saying we rational people need to start catering to racist xenophobes like yourself, or else the racist xenophobes will hand elections to the theocratic racist xenophobes.

No.  Your type, as you not-at-all-insultingly put it, are a blight on society, and deserve no recognition beyond scorn and derision.  Your beliefs are offensive to any sane person.

[Thad]

The fact that it's Petraeus is what turns this from catastrophe to brilliant.

Even though it's technically a demotion of sorts for Petraeus, it can only reflect amazingly well on the man. Even Obama doesn't look too bad for the decision.

This.  When I said that his best option, politically, was to keep McChrystal, I of course did not even consider the possibility that he would replace him with Petraeus.  This really is the best possible move he could have made.

[Mongrel]

"I'm sorry sir, you've been demoted to Captain and they're going to place you back in command of the Enterprise."

[TA]

Uniform Code of Military Justice, Article 88 (10 U.S.C. § 888)

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Dumbass is lucky to get off this easy.  It's a court-martialable offense, punishable by dismissal, confinement for up to 1 year, and forfeiture of all pay.

[SCD]

Concurred.

I don't see this one as a demotion for Petraeus, but rather "one more mission for all his sins".  There would be no better person for the job.

TA:  Coming from you, I will consider such a label a compliment.  It's not like you've been one to back up your words with thoughts, let alone try to understand the ramifications of court-martial ling Karzai's only american friend at the time (apart from Hil-Dawg).

[Brentai]

Gotta admit, the highest levels of government are not where you would normally expect a total subversion of the Peter Principle to occur.

[Shinra]

Shinra, the fact that you refuse to use the second person is nothing less than you trying to pretend that you are better than me and refusing that among my bombast that there are deeper issues beyond national lines.

EARLIER...

Actually, come to think of it, it's still not too late to crack a high-altitude nuclear warhead over the Saudis to ensure that the wahabbi scumbags would be closer to achieving the dream of living like the prophet...

I don't think it's a stretch to say that I'm better than someone who seriously suggests genocide, as motivated by less than thinly veiled racism.

What scares me is that you and Mongrel do not even try to ask the purpose of terrorism in these circumstances.  Boiled down, terrorism is a series of deliberate attacks on soft civilian targets in the purpose of political or religious change using fear as its mode of operation.  While I will be the first to admit that my half-serious gestures are crazy and not a substitute to an effective longterm strategy, to act in the fashion that bill did after the US Cole by slapping the baddies on the wrist and pretending there was no problem at all was what got your nation into the mess in the second place (financing them directly being the first).

Enhance...

What scares me is that you and Mongrel do not even try to ask the purpose of terrorism in these circumstances.  Boiled down, terrorism is a series of deliberate attacks on soft civilian targets in the purpose of political or religious change using fear as its mode of operation.

Enhance...

Boiled down, terrorism is a series of deliberate attacks on soft civilian targets in the purpose of political or religious change using fear as its mode of operation.

Enhance!

terrorism is a series of deliberate attacks on soft civilian targets in the purpose of political...change

BINGO!

Prior to our two failed wars in the middle east spurred on by a relatively minor loss of life from a non-centralized entity, we've lost most of our international clout, previous allies mistrust us at best and resent us at worst, and our economy is in complete fucking shambles. The entire point of 9/11 was to provoke a knee jerk response. They weren't trying to turn us into muslims, they were trying to destroy our empire. Thanks to assholes like you thinking we needed to hit them back, we're now on the verge of becoming internationally irrelevant. Can't happen? Ask Britain about that.

What really scares me about your type Shinra is the lack of understanding (let alone care) of the background knowledge that drives the decisions of the people who think along my minds.  Do you care to see that every moderate islamic republic required to have a mass cleansing in order to maintain its status?  No, you wouldn't care about that.  Would you care about how certain non-islamic entities or lesser muslim entities such as the Alawi's ('lesser' being the interpretation of the "more pure" entities which just slaughtered them)?  Just as much as your type would like to admit that the party of who is considered the kingmaker in the Neitherlands after the last election was brought in due to these fears from people like myself.  Of course you wouldn't care about how those in that nation must live in fear after insulting the prophet lest end up like Van Gogh, who didn't insult the prophet but the specifics of the more theocratic society which is the nations main import at the moment.

You're right; I don't care about any of those things. [spoiler]Because I don't think it's any of our business to try to change or police the lives of a bunch of dirt farmers on the other side of the world who have spent two thousand years murdering each other, any more than it's our business to try to change water being wet and grass being green.[/spoiler]

Wake up and realize that this is a serious debate and not something you should push off to the side as "oh, those xenophobes".  As I am a bit on the extreme side, I will not have all the solutions but to ignore these signs as a higher political power is to cede the votes of everyone who has served (and there happen to be a lot right now) and their vote to the american religious right, something I see as a lesser evil albiet an evil nonetheless.  This is no longer something you should pooh pooh due to its offensive nature.

Enhance...

a serious debate

Actually, come to think of it, it's still not too late to crack a high-altitude nuclear warhead over the Saudis to ensure that the wahabbi scumbags would be closer to achieving the dream of living like the prophet...

 

[Thad]

Eeeeyeah, pretty much with Shinra on this one.  There's a serious discussion to be had here.  "NUKE THE MUSLIMS!!!" is not it.  The "give that hornet's nest a good whack with a baseball bat" school of foreign policy has not served us well up to this point -- but never mind that, you're actually, apparently seriously, suggesting an attack, of massive force, on an ally nation.  And then in the next sentence providing a lecture about how terrorism is when you attack civilian targets to gain a political result, and how Muslims are awful awful people because they do things like that.

Basically at this point I'm trying to determine which character in Dr. Strangelove I should picture every time you open your mouth, and I'm thinking probably General Turgidson.