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Author Topic: Don't you know there's a war on?  (Read 77181 times)

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Thad

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #420 on: November 29, 2010, 08:23:56 AM »

Quote
King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has repeatedly urged the United States to attack Iran to destroy its nuclear program and is reported to have advised Washington to “cut off the head of the snake” while there was still time.

[...]

Saudi donors remain the chief financiers of Sunni militant groups such as al-Qaeda
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JDigital

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #421 on: November 30, 2010, 12:48:41 AM »

So wait, are the Saudis the good guys, or the bad guys?
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Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #422 on: November 30, 2010, 07:01:20 AM »

Yes.
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Saturn

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #423 on: December 01, 2010, 04:17:09 AM »

other nuggets of fun i've read:
 
the Iranian Red Crescent is actively controlled by the government and is involved in illicit arms smuggling and intelligence gathering on behalf of Iran

Ali Khamenei has terminal leukemia

Kim Jong-il is quote "a flabby old chap"
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Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #424 on: December 01, 2010, 05:21:08 AM »

The Leukemia, now that's interesting.
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Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #425 on: December 15, 2010, 07:38:05 PM »

Interesting theory proposes that Stuxnet is in fact a Chinese creation

It feels a bit too much like a conspiracy-theory-fetishist's ignoring of Hanlon's Razor, but it's an interesting possibility all the same.
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Brentai

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #426 on: December 15, 2010, 08:08:55 PM »

Pretty much everything involved with Stuxnet is going to end up sounding like a conspiracy theory.  The thing is literally straight out of a Metal Gear Solid game.

Actually literally, yes.
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Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #427 on: January 07, 2011, 05:34:57 PM »

Egyptian Muslims organize to act as human shields for fellow Egyptian Christians

I wouldn't call it good news, but it's very heartening.
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Thad

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #428 on: February 15, 2011, 06:00:28 AM »

From the "no shit" department: Curveball admits he was lying about the WMD's.
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Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #429 on: February 15, 2011, 08:11:09 AM »

What an appropriate codename. Your CIA tax dollars were good for SOMETHING, I guess!
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Ted Belmont

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Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #431 on: February 24, 2011, 10:13:30 AM »

Oh hey, I was just coming here to post that.

I like that once again it was ROLLING-FUCKING-STONE that broke the story.
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Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #432 on: March 12, 2011, 12:53:39 PM »

Holy shit the Arab League found a spine (more or less) somewhere!?!
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Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #433 on: March 17, 2011, 03:12:21 PM »

FUCK YEAH, THE ADMINISTRATION'S 180. HOLY SHIT.

I'd say my hopes had been answered but this still has to pass the Security Council tonight. The BBC grapevine seems to indicate that China and Russia may have agreed to abstain, but of course the proof is in the pudding.

Meanwhile Sarkozy (bless his cotton socks) and Cameron are practically ready to run out and jump in fighter-bombers themselves.
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Royal☭

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #434 on: March 17, 2011, 03:13:20 PM »

Links, motherfucker.

Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #435 on: March 17, 2011, 03:16:37 PM »

I went to go link the previous articles by way of reply, but NEVER MIND THAT, WE'VE GOT AN UPDATE ALREADY.

How about

FUCK. YEAH.




The 180 was the fact that up until this morning, Obama had been ruling out military action of any kind in spite of strong international support, a unanimous request from the Arab League, and Biden, Hilary and a number of US senators and congressmen pushing hard for action and the plain ol' justice of the situation.
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Royal☭

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #436 on: March 17, 2011, 03:22:45 PM »

That's cool, looks like we can liberate Libya like we did Afghanistan and Iraq.

Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #437 on: March 17, 2011, 03:30:46 PM »

If you think Libya will be the same, you simply have not been paying attention.

The situation equates more closely to the US revolution than it does the Afghan war or Iraq.
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Mongrel

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #438 on: March 17, 2011, 03:43:44 PM »

Okay, you deserve a better explanation that one-liners.

It's not often you get a truly just war, but anything that involves greasing Ghaddffi (the world's second-foremost cartoon dictator) and ending that regime comes pretty damned close. This isn't the abortive uprising in Iraq in 1991/92, nor is it the "Northern Alliance" of Afghan memory, or the Iran uprisings. The rebels were out there doing the real heavy lifting all on their own, bleeding and dying without anybody having promised them help or showing up with a train of M1 Abrams for them to hide behind.

The rebel leadership has taken great pains to demonstrate that they're not a bunch of extremist nutjobs and are doing a surprisingly good job of putting together a rough-and-ready provisional government. And they managed to impress Biden, Hilary, and half the EU in the process. Best estimates show that a clear majority of the population of the country is rebel or has strong rebel sympathies. In fact the core of the rebel army is comprised of defecting regiments from the regular army. They're more than just a one-hit wonder too. After the recent setbacks, they dug in and showed resilience and resourcefulness in a long fighting retreat.

The Rebels almost managed to toss Ghadaffi out on their own, pushing him almost to a small area around Tripoli, until regime armour, artillery, and air assets started getting into play. They easily outnumber the regime forces in manpower (even more so when morale is good - some of the non-soldiers are hedging their bets by fleeing when things get back. But they're not trained soldiers, so I can't lay blame there). But the effects of heavy artillery and armour were simply too much.

Various rebel mouthpieces have been saying that a Ghaddafi victory will mean genocide. It's easy to be cynically skeptical of this, especially considering a biased source, but don't forget, who we're talking about here. Momar Ghaddafi. Even leaving his past aside, he's been damn well doing his best in the past two weeks to show that genocide is something he's relishing very much. The regime has been about as indiscriminate in it's killing as can be.

Sure you can say something nasty like "They were too good for our help, but when the going got rough they came whining for the US to step in". The rebels originally asked the UN for a no-fly zone, not for intervention. Basically the rebel view is partially a fear of foreign dominance, but it's also an old-fashioned homegrown pride issue. They want to do this themselves. I mean, that's something truly precious, something you almost never see anymore.

They want a no-fly zone because they're not afraid of being outgunned by tanks or artillery - they can fight those, though it's difficult (and if they can get some heavier weapons they can balance that out very quickly). But they couldn't counter air power and even if someone gave them planes, they wouldn't have an instant air force to fight with - that takes time they don't have. Forcing both sides to stay on the ground would go a long way towards evening things up and to boosting rebel morale.

Those men have more guts than most. Up until yesterday, I was saying to anyone who cared to listed that if I had my way, NATO would be their personal airforce and I'd be dumping planeloads of easy weapons and supplies for 'em like there was no tomorrow. They've got the fight in 'em, and they've got the numbers. Just give them the tools. I thought that would probably a bit too much for the realpolitik lot, but today has been a day for grand surprises.

The Afghans hate everybody,
The Iraqis were invaded based on trumped-up imperialist nonsense and everyone knew it,
These guys were out taking artillery in the face for weeks before they started asking for help.
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Royal☭

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Re: Don't you know there's a war on?
« Reply #439 on: March 17, 2011, 04:08:18 PM »

if you believe American involvement will mean anything other than trying to setup a puppet government, then I suggest you familiarize yourself with American involvement in Cuba.
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