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Author Topic: LoL, HoN  (Read 110891 times)

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Malikial

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1600 on: January 21, 2012, 01:23:17 PM »

I'd like to bring something up that I would like you guys to also actually think about.

I'd like us all to maintain a polite and professional outward appearance. We can do all the shit talking we need to do towards the others among ourselves in ventrilo. I don't feel there is any need for us to say anything to the other teams than a polite greeting at the starting and a happy congratulations or gracious acceptance of victory at the end of the match. My reason for this is two fold, as some of you know I dislike rudeness in a team based environment, I've had hours long conversations with Envy on the subject and he basically said, at the time, that he was not mature enough to not respond if someone called him a noob or something, quickly after we had this conversation he unfriended me in League and we haven't played together since so I do not know if that's why...

Also a second reason; James streams a lot of his league games and if, by some shocking happenstance, we become rather good and he gets a chance to start being a 'featured streamer' the rules for that are quite strict. They've only had three because of the politeness required and they've already warned one of the three because she double picked jungle because she wasn't paying attention during character select and then acted like a bitch about it. I know you guys aren't required to think about what other people have going or what not and I'm not asking you guys to worry too much about that, I'm just saying that it's something James would, theoretically, want to do and us being dicks in game could hinder that. I am going to personally attempt to be nothing but polite and sunshine during my conversations in both team and all chat in-game.

EDIT; I don't know if this sounded inflammatory, I'm an idiot like that but I would note that I'm not trying to start an argument here. I'm merely stating my opinion and asking you guys if we could try to do something specific(be polite) if I get outvoted I'm only one man of 7(5 players 2 reserve) in the team. I expect that if you guys all want to be rude as hell I won't be able to stop you and I'll just grin and bear it. 
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Joxam

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1601 on: January 21, 2012, 02:13:36 PM »

Don't actually care about streaming, DO want people to be nice. All of you, especially William.
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Shinra

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1602 on: January 21, 2012, 03:04:07 PM »

I have a bunch of riot funbucks queued up from before the last time i quit and I could use a tank. Any suggestions?
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Niku

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1603 on: January 21, 2012, 03:12:24 PM »

Do you want a pure "Wade into shit and do not care while doing slow damage" tank?  I recommend Singed, Rammus, and Leona, or the new coldness Sejuani for that.  If you want more of a shitkicker who builds really burly, Jarvan's been a stalwart since he launched and Malphite kinda rules.
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Shinra

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1604 on: January 21, 2012, 03:52:42 PM »

Leona looks like a really cool hero but I'm worried about spending riot funbux on a hero that is rated pretty poorly on the tier lists. :(
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Doom

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1605 on: January 21, 2012, 04:08:05 PM »

Nice, 6 days after I start playing again, "I don't want to play with you because you're bad". Thanks, Doom.

Haha I was thinking it'd be funny if this happened at work today so I had plenty of time to prepare a rebuttal. Please choose your favorite. I've tried to keep things professional lest we end up in a 1v1 middle only custom Summoner's Rift.

1) Sherlock Holmes.

If we examine your original post:

Quote
I need to get some practice in on this before I can make a judgement of what I'm good at these days. I've only really played as melee carries since getting back into the game and mostly only as Gangplank, who I like to think I'm decent at.

You admit that you can profess to be "Decent" or Above Average with a single hero, which instantly makes you a possible liability in Draft Mode. It's Gangplank, so that's more of a 99% chance liability. So Gangplank will be banned every other game and you'll default to Warwick or Xin Zhao who were your old favorites. However, by your own admission, you are out of practice so you may as well be flying blind. This is the same reason I won't let myself play Taric yet.

2) Empathetic

Yeah I said it(i.e. you probably wouldn't have fun.) You're a lot like I was and still am. You have the most fun when you're winning and chain losses make you lose interest in the task at hand. You were tired of this stuff two nights ago after two losses, dude. If you're not ready to lose at least a dozen times for each win, I don't think you'll enjoy what I have in mind for our next attempt at Ranked 5.

I also think that unless you get bit real hard by the LoL bug your other interests and your career will make it difficult for you to get the required practice. You shouldn't force yourself to play something more than you want to unless you've decided you want more from it than just fun. That's the idea here. Make a real team that fights like proz.

3) Professional

You need some back-ups, you need practice with them, and if you haven't jungled since Season 2 started you need to go relearn it a bit.

I also have reasonable doubts as to how truly in-tune you are with Gangplank, since as I recall you've been nagging on him since his remake for being weaker despite the fact that he has only grown more popular and soared up the tier lists and quite frankly become objectively better. I may be misremembering or you may have come to appreciate the differences since then, so I guess now's a good a time as any to have a civil discussion about how you view the hero.
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Doom

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1606 on: January 21, 2012, 04:11:14 PM »

Singed is 1350 ip, get him on principle.

Leona is fine for Dominion antics and non-ranked Summoner's Rift. Like every hero in the game, since Tiers only matter against people who use the Meta/Tiers and even then good play beats them anyway.

Leona's only real weakness is that she's very vanilla tank and utterly dependent on teammates being good. Damage is terrible, yo.

I'd like to bring something up that I would like you guys to also actually think about.

I'd like us all to maintain a polite and professional outward appearance. We can do all the shit talking we need to do towards the others among ourselves in ventrilo. I don't feel there is any need for us to say anything to the other teams than a polite greeting at the starting and a happy congratulations or gracious acceptance of victory at the end of the match. My reason for this is two fold, as some of you know I dislike rudeness in a team based environment, I've had hours long conversations with Envy on the subject and he basically said, at the time, that he was not mature enough to not respond if someone called him a noob or something, quickly after we had this conversation he unfriended me in League and we haven't played together since so I do not know if that's why...

Also a second reason; James streams a lot of his league games and if, by some shocking happenstance, we become rather good and he gets a chance to start being a 'featured streamer' the rules for that are quite strict. They've only had three because of the politeness required and they've already warned one of the three because she double picked jungle because she wasn't paying attention during character select and then acted like a bitch about it. I know you guys aren't required to think about what other people have going or what not and I'm not asking you guys to worry too much about that, I'm just saying that it's something James would, theoretically, want to do and us being dicks in game could hinder that. I am going to personally attempt to be nothing but polite and sunshine during my conversations in both team and all chat in-game.

EDIT; I don't know if this sounded inflammatory, I'm an idiot like that but I would note that I'm not trying to start an argument here. I'm merely stating my opinion and asking you guys if we could try to do something specific(be polite) if I get outvoted I'm only one man of 7(5 players 2 reserve) in the team. I expect that if you guys all want to be rude as hell I won't be able to stop you and I'll just grin and bear it. 

Agreed on this actually. Gonna have it as a team leader mandate.

It's like Starcraft 2, dudes. Open the match with a gl hf, end it with a gg. Anything else that isn't polite discussion is probably somebody being a stupid prick. It's why I stopped almost entirely and just /ignore rude people myself.

The fact that we'll be able to bitch and moan ALL DAY LOOOONG on Vent makes it too easy.
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Smiler

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1607 on: January 21, 2012, 04:15:55 PM »

If I kept sending ascii dicks in all chat, would that be polite discussion or being a stupid prick?
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Doom

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1608 on: January 21, 2012, 04:21:29 PM »

Take a wild guess!

Alright let's try for Tuesday after 6 PM Eastern. Just be on LoL, I'll get a chat going after 30 minutes.
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Envy

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1609 on: January 23, 2012, 01:24:44 PM »

I get off at 4:30 central so it will be just in the nick of time for this. I also finally got out of my rating and though it's low I rated at 1350.
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Doom

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1610 on: January 24, 2012, 06:56:05 AM »

Good news everybody I can Jungle(holy shit it's easy now.)

See you tonight.
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Envy

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1611 on: January 24, 2012, 07:26:41 AM »

Work changed me from 4-9 central meaning I wont show up on the east coast till 10:30 sorry guys.
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Malikial

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1612 on: January 24, 2012, 12:13:29 PM »

I'll be playing this today before the games, if anyone wants to get in a bit of practice before the games add me and whatnot.
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Joxam

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1613 on: January 24, 2012, 07:46:30 PM »

Some good games tonight. Remember that we're still being properly placed in the ELO but we should look at what we think we can do to be better and what we think we did ok.

For my part I need to work on communicating ganks properly and having a lane presence when I jungle. On the other hand I think I did well at solo top in both games we played. Therefore, perhaps I should just solo top from here on out? What do you guys think?

I'd like to hear from each of you about things you think you did well and things you need to work on.

Above all else I'd like to say that I had fun and we should keep at this.
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Envy

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1614 on: January 24, 2012, 07:59:02 PM »

I would like to mention that me working this tuesday was a one time thing and I'm back to having tuesdays off.
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Smiler

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1615 on: January 24, 2012, 08:54:22 PM »

I think I figured out what support does. I'll do some practicing with Lux so I can be a mobile death machine with an AP champion.  I haven't played Kennen in a while, but I am pretty sure I can play him just fine.
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Niku

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1616 on: January 25, 2012, 03:17:07 AM »

The main things I saw that we needed more as a team were map control and awareness and communication, honestly.  There were times that intentions weren't being announced and times when intentions weren't being asked for alike that could have saved some problems.  For map control, the games that we lost ended up being games where we couldn't enter our own jungles without them being a roaming gank squad inside of them.  Basically, ward ward ward ward ward, and we also by midgame pretty much need someone with oracles to clear out any of their wards we find.  This will generally be whoever is support or whoever is the beefiest.  We could also use a little more objective planning with regards to dragon and baron, since those usually ended up being "we should check oh they got it."

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Doom

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Doom

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1618 on: January 25, 2012, 11:14:16 AM »

Communication Issue: If you want Dragon Control, Jungle and Bottom Lane should be calling for it, not top/mid solo Doom even if he is the team captain. Also I'm wildly inexperienced at giving good commands past the early game!

If we do this once a week or so I'm up for it but otherwise I think I'm going to shop around and see if I can join some other teams elsewhere to get more practical experience.

Here's a bunch of mean words that nobody should apologize to me about for the examples there-in because apologies will make me roll my eyes. GO PRACTICE and show up with a FIERCE DETERMINATION TO BE GREAT WITH YOUR FAVORITE HEROES AT YOUR FAVORITE ROLES. NO MORE "I CAN DO WHAT WE NEED."

Smiler: I felt bad for essentially chasing you out but show up with more than two games worth of experience SHEEEEEEEESH.

Niku: You do that thing I do where you play too many heroes, let's settle on the handful you're great with and go from there as far as practice goes. You should also speak up a lot because you're probably more experienced than me and here I am as some sort of team captain WHAT. Finally I know Malzahar is your BFF but unless you can play him at a dramatic carrying level Annie is better in every way.

Joxam and Mali: You guys have good basic competence but I think you need to settle on some mains and get ridiculous good with them, I think it's silly that you don't exhibit the sort of incredible rampant high skill ceilings I'd associate with people who have more wins than I do, yet you constantly favor high impact roles like Jungle or Tank and under-deliver. You know when I buy a skin for a hero I like? When I feel that I can play them so freaking well I'll inspire envy in others.

Joxam: If you're jungling constantly request information and who wants ganks. Learn somebody other than Gangplank because you aren't playing him above "Competent."

Mali: If you stick with support go look up pro information or watch a pro support and develop timing for ward sweeps and such. Learn at least two other tanks because your options right now seem to be Alistar and "maybe" Amumu and you shouldn't default to Alistar unless you really bond with him and start playing at a razor's edge of skill.

Mali(Poppy): People who watch me die are one of my biggest pet peeves! I know my Rumble game was astoundingly shitty and I was an imbecile, but that first time Renekton ran me down and you said "What can I do?" Right click the fucker! From the weakest support to the most surprisingly resilient auto-attacker(which Poppy is! Your W!), Auto's count for a lot early game and you probably would have killed him or forced him to back off. If you don't have to back off to avoid suicide, don't abandon a teammate.

Doom: You're an arrogant baboon and you play too many heroes, stick with a handful and refine them to a razor's edge. You got overconfident against Ryze middle and you tried stupid masteries for people who don't think like you do, stick with 9/21/0 forever. You got out-played when you didn't realize why Ryze was missing so often or noticed soon enough that his CS was rising so dramatically, you got out-played by Riven as Singed top hard and forgot to request ganks, and I dunno why you keep using Rumble when you have not reached an acceptable skill plateau with him yet. Also playing Warwick in ignorance of the meta was dumb and you should thank Max for clueing you in to how to best blow your Flash -> Ult to leap-frog to somebody instead of tentatively walking at them and hoping they don't notice. Also let Shen check bushes taunt-first instead of you face-first. You also don't have good experience making mid or late game calls so I dunno why you're team captain :X

I mentioned this in my original post but surprise you guys did it again.

Stop offering to "fill any role" or say you can "play whatever we need." Fuck that, if I want a guy who can play any role I can go solo ranked. I want you guys to come and tell me that you're fucking excited to play your favorite hero in your favorite role because you're going to dominate.

I think you guys just sort of come to this ranked team thing thinking you'll have a good time(ok) win or lose(good attitude) and maybe we'll get lucky and win(NO.) We should be actively anticipating wins and playing to our best and trying to pull victory out of the jaws of defeat. Like Joxam, when I was jungling you could see that I would announce my goals and they were short and sweet. I'm going to grab red and poke every lane that's over-extended for possible ganks. I covered all three, I made intimidate/presence known, and I still made good time doing it even on my shitty Warwick game.

Like guys we had a good time and we even got a win(but quite frankly we won a 5v4 so big deal) and we're going to get sat into our actual ELO bracket soon which'll give us a chance to learn against people who aren't so fierce, but that doesn't mean you can't bone up and learn to be fierce yourselves. When I solo queue ranked, there's a 50/50 chance that the over-enthusiastic retards on my team will actually have the balls to back their boasting. With you guys, you just sort of hope things will go OK instead of actively DEMANDING a win, or demanding 100% from yourselves, or swearing to do your best, or whatever you want to call it. Putting on your game face, taking things seriously, playing to win, etc. If we rile ourselves up and believe we'll always win and we always lose, so what. But if we're just going through the motions and hoping we fight morons, what a waste of time.

When I played Ahri vs Ryze mid, I intended to harass him out of lane and win the pushing war, pressuring their entire team to cover for him. Whether I never got jungle support or I was an incompetent, overconfident buffoon that didn't work, but I had Teleport and I was harassing him strongly and I didn't sort of hope he'd let me kill him.

When I played Shyvana jungle, I had a rock-solid patrol path and jungle route and intentions and it showed. I also have really clicked with Shyvana, one of my favorite heroes now, so I don't play her and hope for the best, I play her because I'm going to rip people in half and they'll never see my ult coming and GOD, I'M SO GOOD AT LEADING THESE SKILL-SHOTS.

When I played Warwick jungle, I had good patrol and route but half-assed intentions. And it showed. I should have blown my flash into ult twice as often to feed Akali mid. Then I just sort of became this inconsequential guy who does no real damage.

When I played Singed solo top, I had a strong plan for controlling my lane, preserving my tower, and not letting Riven actually kill me. I did those things but got jungle ganked and ended up retreating a lot(though I kept my tower safe anyway) because I lost the lane and had no jungle support. I still performed at my usual good Singed level, particularly once we went defensive and I had to tank and initiate.

WELP THAT'S HOW I REALLY FEEL. I'd love to keep chugging along with you dopes but I don't really want to bottle up these super cool criticisms, particularly of myself. I can see where I can improve(I'm stealing that Atmog's Riven build for solo top), how about you guys?

And for fuck's sake more I'M GONNA DO X CAUSE I OWN AND WILL WIN and less "I can do whatever." I have an automated match-making engine that'll give me infinite sets of four guys who can do whatever. I want you guys to be my friends who do cool shit and are dependable.
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Joxam

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Re: LoL, HoN
« Reply #1619 on: January 25, 2012, 12:44:00 PM »

Thank you for your input. This is what we need. The only exception I even have to the post is the idea that you needed to keep those criticisms 'bottled up'. Yes, sure, in the heat of actually losing the game for you guys I was pretty upset, but I wasn't mad and if I was it wasn't at you guys. I felt like I was losing the game for YOU, my friends, and essentially that was a good feeling. Owning your mistakes is something we need.

Now I think our problem going out is going to be fielding a team going forward with five people who can do what they LOVE. For example. I said I could jungle because no one else can. Doom is getting better at it but even in the game that we won he only ganked my lane twice without scoring either kill or making their top back off from my tower. I am getting GOOD results with it in solo queue but quite honestly I have no idea how to counter being completely warded out of every lane by the time I'm level 5. That shit just doesn't happen when I've jungled in solo probably due to the lack of communication that solo queue facilitates. So if someone wants to jungle, be my guest, its not my favorite thing anyways. I prefer solo top and support. I am good at support. William is still LEARNING the basics to support like WARD, PLANT YOURSELF DIRECTLY IN YOUR CARRY'S ASS AND NEVER LEAVE or FIND A WAY TO MAKE GOLD BECAUSE YOU AIN'T GONNA DO IT WITH CS AND KILLS, these are things that I know how to do. I know how to build a support character for support and how to support my lane for MAX CARNAGE. I also think I would have done better solo top if I wasn't stuck on a character that I hadn't played at all in six months in a position that I didn't think he was suitable for, even still I was not the 'problem' in my two solo top games. 'The whole position he was not suitable for' thing plays right into my next thought.

My next problem is what I'm going to call the 'tank thing'. I have NEVER played a ranked game (except the ones I played with you guys) that didn't have two tanky DPS (solo and jungle) covering the spot of 'tank' instead of making one dude tank on a 'real' tank. The more damage output and having two guys with high survivability usually out plays the team that only has one guy that can take any kind of hits, bonus points for building your mid beefy with AP/health items. The team comp I keep going back to on ranked is Tanky DPS top, Tanky DPS jungle, Solo AP mid, AD Carry bottom and Support Bottom.

So basically what I'm saying is. I'm going to play Nidalee bottom because I own and we're going to win.
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