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[NexAdruin]

Also Nintendo has started making their handhelds receive automatic updates that obstruct the use of flash cartridges which I'm against for a variety of reasons.

[Smiler]

Oh no I can't steal all the games I want anymore. Don't worry, someone will make some workaround. They always do as long as there is an exploit.

[NexAdruin]

It isn't about piracy. Flash carts allowed me to watch tv shows on the ds, as well as use instant messengers wherever I could get a signal. They added functions that Nintendo didn't think about/didn't care to add. Then Nintendo spat out the DSi, and just as soon as everyone had ordered their Acekard an automatic mandatory update made the Acekard useless (lucky me I'm still using my DS Phat from back when the Metroid Prime Hunters demo was included).

[patito]

3DS comes with an integrated reader. And yeah, you can say whatever you want about homebrew and adding features, but for nintendo and the publishers it's all about combating easy piracy.

[NexAdruin]

I understand why they did it I'm just not happy about it.

Edit: Is there any news as to what this thing even looks like? Is this gonna be one of those "cross your eyes to see the hidden image!" things?

[Thad]

- kirby wii is oh my god so cute

...I don't remember what site described it as having "unique graphics reminiscent of LittleBigPlanet", but I do remember it was a site I needed a login for, because I didn't leave a comment telling them they were stupid.

Oh my god they are making a 3DS remake of Starfox 64!

Yeah, I'm tempted by that one too even though I already bought the thing on the 64 AND the Wii.  Would prefer a new Star Fox, of course, but fer cryin' out loud it's been a lot longer since the last Kid Icarus than the last Star Fox.

And of course, ever since I saw that the new DS would have an analog stick I've been hoping for a version of Mario 64 DS that is actually playable.

And yeah, you can say whatever you want about homebrew and adding fetures, but for nintendo and the publishers it's all about combating easy piracy.

I'm not Nintendo and I'm not a publisher.  I am a consumer.

Please do feel free to tell me how those poor, abused people at Nintendo need to put more restrictions on my rights because they are losing so very much money on products like the DS.

But hang on a minute, first I have to finish this letter about why I shouldn't have to give the hospital $4000 because they didn't run the tests I walked in with a prescription for.



(I shouldn't have to put a disclaimer here explaining I'm not advocating piracy just because I'm in a world of financial hurt.  But I've spent enough time on the GP comments section to think I probably should.)

[patito]

I'm not saying Nintendo is poor and abused, I was just saying it makes sense for them. People still bought the DSi even if it had mandatory updates, so clearly they don't think mandatory updates is an issue.

It is an issue for consumers who like to tinker with their devices beyond the features they were originally designed with. So yes, Nintendo and Sony don't really care about losing market to people that like to mess around with their devices, that includes you, Nex and me as well. I'm still of the firm belief that some hacker somewhere will manage to overcome those obstacles, it happened with several versions of the PSP for example.

[Bal]

Oh shut the fuck up, Thad. Nintendo isn't selling a homebrew device, they're selling the Nintendo 3DS, and it does whatever they want it to because it is their fucking product. If you want to buy something open platform try something that is even remotely intended to be an open platform. It's not like they're being underhanded about it and slipping secuROM in there when you didn't ask for it. If you buy a 3DS you are asking for what they are selling. If that bothers you, don't buy it.

[TA]

It's not a matter of an open platform.  They're selling a device that they are reserving the right to change however they like, whenever they like.  Which is to say they're not actually selling you a goddamn thing.

[Shinra]

You know, I'm all for the right to use your product however you see fit, but I have to side with Bal on this. Let's not kid ourselves - 90% of the flash carts out there are designed and used exclusively for piracy and you can't really blame Nintendo for trying to quell the tide a little bit. It's not like hackers won't figure the handheld out within a few short weeks. You might need to buy a whole new brand of flash cart, but oh well - that's the price you pay for homebrew on a closed platform. I agree that Nintendo obviously isn't hurting for money considering they release a new version of the DS every six months, but they still have to convince third party developers that the DS is the best choice for their bottom line.
 

It's not a matter of an open platform.  They're selling a device that they are reserving the right to change however they like, whenever they like.  Which is to say they're not actually selling you a goddamn thing.

Don't connect to the internet and don't buy new games and it's not an issue. The hardware still belongs to you, but if you want to use the software and features that nintendo voluntarily provides, you have to play ball.
 

[Brentai]

They're selling you a device.

One function of the device is to screw you over.

They have informed you of this up front.

Close your wallet or don't.

[TA]

Y'know, I bought a boxed copy of TF2 about a year ago, and attached it to my Steam account.  I don't have it attached to my Steam account anymore.  What I have now is the latest game in a long series of the same event: Valve deciding I no longer own the game I used to own, but giving me a slightly different one in its place.  I have access to whatever the most recent iteration of this sequence is, and my faith that Valve will continue to let me own that rendition of the game and not decide for whatever that I suddenly don't own it anymore and offer no replacement, but I don't own the game I bought anymore.  I can't play the game I actually bought, and I can't even install it without it changing itself.

This is kind of like that.  The software is as essential to the DS's functioning as the hardware, and pretending that there's some sort of meaningful distinction is bullshit.  Saying that the only way to continue to use the software as I bought it is to never allow the DS anywhere near an internet connection, because it will automatically connect to Nintendo and change itself, and that this is somehow a perfectly legitimate thing for Nintendo to do is likewise bullshit.  I fucking well can blame Nintendo for deciding that they can deny my property rights over something I've purchased to "quell the tide of piracy a little bit".

[Joxam]

You're an idiot.

[Joxam]

Alternatively, do you have windows updates turned on? If so, shut the fuck up. If not, shut the fuck up.

EDIT: Yes I know this doesn't apply to thad, mostly; god, I don't want to argue with thad.

[A²]

I just kept my DS Lite and bought a DSi.

And will probably buy a 3DS the instant they announce a way to transfer the middling amount of DSiWare I have over.

Or not even that, I'll probably save up and buy it anyway. And buy the games for it. And when I want to do the piracy thing, I will reach into my desk, pull out my DSLite, and use it.

[TA]

Alternatively, do you have windows updates turned on? If so, shut the fuck up. If not, shut the fuck up.

EDIT: Yes I know this doesn't apply to thad, mostly; god, I don't want to argue with thad.

Hey, remember that mandatory PSN update that bricked a bunch of older-model consoles and severely crippled a bunch of others, to the point that simply turning on the console to watch a movie ran the risk of fucking the whole thing up?  I realize this might come as a surprise to you, but some people look at that whole interaction and actually don't think it was an awesome way to be.

I know you think you're making some kind of witty rhetorical point, but I'm gonna answer your question anyway: I don't have windows update set to automatically download and install updates.  I prefer to update manually, because I can individually vet those updates to be sure they won't fuck something up.  I'm able to do this because - and this is the part that might really blow your mind - Microsoft is more aware and respectful of my rights over my computer than Nintendo seems to be.  Possibly because they've already learned the hard way how far that can be pushed, while game companies like Nintendo tend to run into a lot more cheerleaders and a lot less of that sort of legislative and litigative resistance.

What I'm hearing here in this thread is basically "Microsoft isn't selling a homebrew operating system, they're selling Windows 95, and it does whatever they want it to because it is their fucking product. If you want to buy something open platform try something that is even remotely intended to be an open platform. It's not like they're being underhanded about it and slipping Internet Explorer in there when you didn't ask for it. If you buy Windows you are asking for what they are selling. If that bothers you, don't buy it."  That would have been a real productive mindset for people to take in the late 90s, wouldn't it?  Things would be better now?

[Bal]

I wouldn't ever make the argument that Windows isn't an open platform, just look at all this open platform shit I have on it. All I'm saying is that the 3DS is definitely not an open platform, and complaining about it is asinine. This isn't an issue like SecuROM, or Ubisoft, or even Steam (though Steam is pretty upfront about what they're doing too). Nintendo is proposing to sell you a product that has certain features, and among those is that it will be a closed platform, with mandatory updates. If they breaks your heart, by all means, do not buy it, but don't complain about it either. Nintendo isn't pulling a fast one on you, or infringing on your rights, they're just selling something you don't want.

[Brentai]

After thinking about it some more it's... complicated.

Basically, the "don't buy it" argument is a little difficult because the thing is a damn fine product in every other respect.  I'm actually waiting with anticipation for preorders to open up.

That doesn't mean you can't express your dissatisfaction with certain design decisions.

It also means Nintendo doesn't particularly have to cater to your opinions.  As long as it's not directly harming you as a consumer they can design their thing however they want.  All they're doing is removing a feature.

You can and indeed SHOULD bitch about it all you want, but don't try to factor in consumer rights.  You now know months before purchase what the device does and does not do, so there's no violation going on, just general douchebaggery.

ITT Thad is right but acts so overly pompous about it that it convinces everybody that he's wrong.  Welcome to the Jizzporium.

[Zaratustra]

god, just give the pirates two weeks

[Brentai]

Just some other food for thought:

If you don't think people using a device for unintended purposes is a problem, consider why we have the Nobel Foundation.