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Author Topic: Fox Only  (Read 5937 times)

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Doom

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2010, 02:31:33 PM »

Yeah uh MOBAs are fun to play but apparently attract the worst player-bases in the world.

My theory of "Must Place Fault Upon Others" is pretty much 99% accurate in all cases.
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Detonator

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2010, 03:21:12 PM »

I think it's a product of the specificities of the genre.  In no other genre is teamwork so desparately needed, the actions of a single teammate so significant, the results of your actions so clearly laid out, or the investment in a single match so great.

It all creates an atmosphere where it's really easy to get really angry at your teammates, because their idiocy just ruined a game you've been playing for the last 45 minutes.

So I'm not sure if it's that MOBAs attract a jerk playerbase, more than that MOBAs make most players into huge jerks.

And just as easy as it is to call out a player who's 2-8 as being bad when you're 5-1, it's just as possible that you're that 2-8 criticizing the 5-1 for hanging back during team fights and stealing your kills, then running away and having the gall to compare K/D records when you call him out on it.
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"Imagine punching somebody so hard that they turned into a door. Then you found out that's where ALL doors come from, and you got initiated into a murder club that makes doors. The stronger you punch, the better the door. So there are like super strong murderers who punch people into Venetian doors and shit"

Bal

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2010, 03:28:41 PM »

Raping noobs, because that's how it happened to you.
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Frocto

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2010, 10:47:38 PM »

Oh, I had one game earlier where two of my teammates refused to help the rest of us kill Nashor because it was against the structure of high-level play, then bitched at us for wasting the Nashor buff by running back to base to heal since we'd almost almost died without them.

A little while later, they ran ahead of the team while the rest of us stayed behind to defend since we had two inhibs down, got ganked and cost us the match.
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"And it is because they have fallen prey to a weakened, feminized version of Christianity that is only about softer virtues such as compassion and not in any part about the muscular Christian virtues of individual responsibility and accountability."

Saturn

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2010, 03:49:09 AM »

i'm not sure if this goes in this thread but the fighting between 3d fighter fans and 2d fighter fans is incredibly stupid.

recently saw a tekken player try to argue that having ANY METER other than the health bar is a outdated gimmick.

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Bal

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2010, 04:07:57 AM »

Juggling is an outdated gimmick.
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McDohl

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2010, 09:14:59 AM »

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Frocto

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2010, 09:22:53 AM »

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"And it is because they have fallen prey to a weakened, feminized version of Christianity that is only about softer virtues such as compassion and not in any part about the muscular Christian virtues of individual responsibility and accountability."

Kayin

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2010, 10:51:25 AM »

They're like.... two different god damned genres. Though I dunno if I wanna hear anything from tekken players. That game ends up with a lot of crap, has had tons of identity crisises and until recently hasn't managed to maintain a real competitive community (Especially in Japan, where they play everything. They just play VF instead). Also they just added the whole rage meter BS. But fans of any one game are naturally critical of others, usually for the goofiest reasons. Like Tekken players hating Soul Calibur because 'lol weapons how goofy'. Or Guilty Gear players saying SF isn't deep because their isn't air dashing. Or a bunch of nonsense.

The FG community is pretty much as equally dumb as any other community. Whats nice though, is unlike say the smash community, our rotten, dumb players are busy being dumbshits on shoryuken.com and not on gamefaqs or some crap like that.

Anyways I don't have too many great stories. I've gotten hatemail, like being called a coward for playing Dhalsim how he's supposed to be played. I suppose my big pet peeve that fits this thread is people who intentionally pick low tier in any game. I don't care of someone picks a bad character, or plays the worst character in the game, but if their REASON is something like "Because he's low tier" or "High tier is boring" or some crap like that, I throw my hands up in the air. There seems to be this silly thought among some players that the lower half of the cast is a more interesting, tragic space than the upper half. The whole thing also gets me, because, by definition, higher tier characters tend to be more interesting. They have tools that actually work. You can have stupid top tier (Though I'd argue that they're still secretly interesting), but generally they have varied move sets, great ways to get lots of damage and other great features. Bottom tier will often have characters that just weren't designed right. Or maybe a cool character who is a few changes away from being viable. Or maybe JUST MAYBE there is a perfectly playable, interesting low tier character that just doesn't do enough damage or whatever. These characters can be very fun (I fool around with a number of low tier characters and do pretty well), but they're not better or more honorable because they're low tier. The fact their tools are left incomplete is tragic. I play ROCK BOTTOM TIER in Guilty Gear Accent Core. Johnny. I loooove Johnny and played him through 3 revisions. It is a TRAGEDY to me he's bottom tier. I'd rather for him to be a viable character (Well, it's GG, so everyone is at least kinda viable) with some real, meaningful strengths. My least favorite thing about him is his tier placement. I don't need to play top tier, but I'd rather main characters in the top half of the cast. No reason to bang my head against the wall unnecessarily.

For people who intentionally go bottom tier all the time, it's basically a cowardice thing. People want to avoid real competition and use excuses (worst character) to make their losses hurt less. The people who aren't like this are just the people unfortunate enough to like a character who happens to be awful, or be like a handful of folks who goes "I don't think this character is as bad as everyone says they are and I am to prove it". I've heard people say this so often and each and every time it erodes my soul a little bit more.

(or maybe friends who want to go easy on their friends who suck, I dunno)
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Doom

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2010, 11:11:48 AM »

Quote
People want to avoid real competition and use excuses (worst character) to make their losses hurt less.

I think Low Tier Love is fine if you don't do this.
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Kayin

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2010, 11:25:22 AM »

Pretty much, but consistent low tier picking goes hand-in-hand with that horrible attitude so often. I think the people who are ore interested in odd or underused/developed characters are pretty cool! That often means playing low tier, but with a much more positive attitude. Obviously these people aren't as common. :(
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Rico

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2010, 11:31:13 AM »

Re: MOBAs: Det pretty much has this.  I'm sure that if, instead of being TF2, TF2 featured 45-60 minute rounds where every time you got a kill you did more damage and got more health, it would be at least as bad of a community.

Kayin is pretty right about competitive Pokemon.  It is negative fun if you take it super serious in-game but really interesting in a simulator when you can actually play with team construction and not have it take literal days.  If you know what you're doing you have a fair amount of leeway in putting in an UnderUsed 'mon in a team for a specific niche.  It is very meta dependent, and while you'll have a decent team taking stock sets on high-usage 'mons you will be more successful if you make small changes and make a team that works together.  I also find it interesting that the tiers are based on usage, and it actually makes a lot of sense once you start making your own teams.

I haven't played since D/P was really in full-swing, but I was rated high enough on Smogon's shoddy server to be occasionally matched up with the top-tier names.

P.S HUGE JOKES about Doom's "trust Nintendo's intended meta-game blah blah OHKO blah blah WHY DID NINTENDO MAKE AWFUL TYPING AND BAD STATS"
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Bongo Bill

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #52 on: August 03, 2010, 11:34:27 AM »

I was shocked to discover that most of my favorite characters in Smash Bros are considered low-tier.

There is a sort of stereotype that high-tier characters are high-tier because they are broken, though.
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Kazz

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2010, 11:57:35 AM »

I know you guys are bitching about other games and bad players and stuff but listen

I really really wanna be good at competitive StarCraft 2 and I am just too much of an airhead to do it.

I always forget to do one or two things and then the enemy comes and murders me.

Also I've watched real competitive players and their APM terrifies me.  WHY ARE YOU CLICKING SO MUCH HOLY SHIT
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Bongo Bill

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2010, 11:59:32 AM »

Finding opponents near to your own skill level is an open-ended problem, nevermind the difficulty of making a competitive video game that will train you in the core skills needed to beat humans. Supposedly SC2 has some neat things going for it with respect to both of those issues, but I don't know firsthand.
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Ziiro

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2010, 12:01:49 PM »

It's okay Kazz. You'll always be the Master Crafter of Battle, and that's all that matters.

Korean Gamers: APM Demonstration

But yes, I agree, this is terrifying.
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Doom

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2010, 12:06:55 PM »

Quote
P.S HUGE JOKES about Doom's "trust Nintendo's intended meta-game blah blah OHKO blah blah WHY DID NINTENDO MAKE AWFUL TYPING AND BAD STATS"

Seem like separate issues to me. Why would an otherwise workable pokemon like Seviper be given stats that insure it's worthless? With OHKOs and abilities like Sturdy, there was an intent, however lax, pathetic and unfulfilled that the move be used and be counterable. When Masquerain is terrible any way you cut it, why?

Trust Nintendo? SHRUG. I'm just sayin' man. Nintendo puts out 30 shitty water types a game and I'm not really sure if Luvdiscs exist beyond their Scales(which were introduced a generation later?) And competitive people think Double Team is Satan but can't fit any of the moves specifically made to counter it into their Ice Beam/Earthquake/Close Combat/Hyper Beam move spread. Both sides are kind of terrible!

I also made that post in full rant, so eh. I recognize that I'm not really that good at competitive pokemon. It's just some things that strike me as odd. I also find it odd and unsatisfying that rather than get used to an entire subset of meta-game(working OHKO and DT and anti-OHKO and anti-DT into teams) that it was simply banished. But again, I am the odd one out here.
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Kayin

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2010, 12:17:42 PM »

I know you guys are bitching about other games and bad players and stuff but listen

I really really wanna be good at competitive StarCraft 2 and I am just too much of an airhead to do it.

I always forget to do one or two things and then the enemy comes and murders me.

Also I've watched real competitive players and their APM terrifies me.  WHY ARE YOU CLICKING SO MUCH HOLY SHIT

For the APM bit, watching professionals is kinda unfair. They get paid to be insane. you can basically get good with just basic typing speed, it's more of a matter of knowing what you should be doing more so than physical ability. Of course, with your airheadedness, that could be a problem. Personally I like flexible build orders. I like going for collosi as protoss and knowing that I'll have an observer in case of cloaked units or whatever. Or that I can always warp in a ton of stalkers if I need anti air or whatever (or my observer tells me before hand and I react accordingly!)

I dunno, try and keep to a routine that makes it easier to adjust when necessary. What race are you trying to play?
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Friday

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2010, 12:35:59 PM »

RE: picking low-tier and then crowing about wins/shrugging off loses

This behavior is like, my least favorite thing in the world. Yes. You beat my Nightmare with Yoshi or Yunsung. And all those times I beat them don't count, because they are sucky characters. But now you've beat me, once, so clearly, you are the more skilled.
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Doom

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2010, 12:43:03 PM »

RE Starcraft and APM: try to gauge how decent your friends are and either play with relatively equal friends for real ultimate bouts, play against tougher guys to learn to be tougher, and play against derps to teach them.

The best way to develop APM is to get a comfortable build order/strategy and try to do it as fast and ballsy as possibly. My SC1 build-order is always something like Start Nonsense -> Baby Hydra Force -> Expand immediately and seize map information control(bury Zerglings at all expansion spots) -> QUEENS (Spawn Brood Harass + Parasites everywhere) -> Adjust if necessary because parasites tell me what you are doing -> Ultralisks to finish in style.

Now my enemy doesn't know this and if they stumble across my ballsy first expansion I could lose an entire drone(if I'm observant) or the cost of a hatchery(if I'm not) and they can expand or attack faster than I send 8-12 Zerglings to points on the map. Queens are also a ballsy rush because they detract from military prowess. But my entire gameplan is to balls-to-the-walls as fast as possible, seize absolute domination of information and Keikaku Doori.

And I'm perfectly aware that this shit wouldn't fly for a second against seasoned vets! It's just what I can do best because it's my favorite strategy and I can do it the fastest.  :kowhyee:
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