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[Kazz]

Rare as it is for me to post here, or anywhere, I'm fucking pissed off about this.

Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground

If that's tl;dr, the story is that basically this guy forgot (debatable, but not the point) to pay a $75 annual firemen's fee for protection on his house.  This is common in rural communities where they haven't implemented a tax-funded fire department.  Anyway, a legal trash fire gets out of control, and his house catches fire, and he calls 911 and the firefighters show up and watch his house burn down.  3 dogs die.  They only intervene when his neighbor, who did pay the fee, becomes threatened by the flame.

I think the entire affair is disgusting.  It's all getting a lot of national play, and the savvy are comparing it to the health care debate, but I'm just horrified that people could be so fucking heartless as to have the ability to help and not do it because of a $75 fee.  The man came out and told the firefighters that he'd pay any amount for them to put the fire out, and they didn't do it.

[Mongrel]

They were just following orders.

[Ziiro]

Actually, it's not that he forgot. It's that he thought they'd put out the fire even if he didn't pay.

And it is, in it's entirety, the best example in the world why privatized social services are a horrible, horrible idea.

[Joxam]

We had this entire argument in #finalfight a few days back and our final verdict seemed to be that the firefighters were probably afraid of losing their positions, being the low man on the totem pole so to speak, but that the higher ups should have had protocol in place where they did the work and fined or charged the shit out of the person for services rendered. Something like the actual policy stating 'you pay 75 bucks no or the entire cost of mobolizing the fleet then'.

Also the home-owner is clearly a idiot but that isn't and probably shouldn't be the point.

[Kazz]

Also the home-owner is clearly a idiot but that isn't and probably shouldn't be the point.

I don't think it matters if he's a simpering retard, the reason we came up with civilization in the first place is so that we would not allow people's houses to burn down.

[Brentai]

The point where they refused to help even after he promised to make good is the point where it becomes simply vindictive.  I understand that these are people in high stress positions and now terribly appreciative of people who take that for granted, but somewhere they crossed the line between bureaucracy and malice.

The neighbor who did pay his fee and had his home threatened by an uncontrolled fire has a case for a lawsuit, probably.

[Mongrel]

I think Kazz has it right in a way. All the technical talk about morality, blame, responsibility, etc. simply dances around the colossal absurdity that this happened in the first place.

Imagine if police services had left the dude to be beaten or killed as a result of criminal activity, or an EMT had let him die, because he hadn't paid those fees. Even if you want to invoke some kind of "It's just property" nonsense, these fire guys actually let three dogs die (haha it's okay dogs aren't people).

I mean, This is pretty much the reason why taxes are not voluntary - because otherwise this would happen constantly.

[TA]

Actually, it's not that he forgot. It's that he thought they'd put out the fire even if he didn't pay.

And it is, in it's entirety, the best example in the world why privatized social services are a horrible, horrible idea.

In the past, they have.  This time, according to the fire chief, they wanted to "send a message".

[Brentai]

Mission accomplished, at least as long as you don't care what the message is.

[A²]

Taking bets on how soon that message is going to be "Quickest way to lose your government job"

[Kazz]

Why not just break his thumbs or something

[James Edward Smith]

I used to work for parks and recreation a while back and we had to sign a paper saying we wouldn't use the city trucks or other equipment to do a job for someone that was paying us out of their pocket to do something for them. I imagine these firefighters have a similar thing they have to sign so they won't use their ladder truck to help a guy shingle his roof or something because he was paying them. I bet that in their stupid public servant minds they were thinking about this when they wouldn't put out the fire even if the guy paid.

Really, if they wanted to send a message they should have just done what Joxam said: put out the fire and then charge the guy for all the shit they used to do it and the labor. He doesn't pay his taxes for the service, so he doesn't get the benefit of everyone collectively paying for adequate fire & rescue service. It really is as simple as that.

Standing there and watching the house burn down and 3 dogs die is just psychotically stupid .

[A²]

Why not just break his thumbs or something

If this story gets any amount of steam those firefighters + chief will be hounded by crazy people enough that this might happen. I'm not advocating it, but this is the sort of thing that people with nothing better to do but still want to bitch about something will do.

Aside from the Tea Party of course.

[Rico]

I'm a little surprised they didn't do it and bill him the full cost of the operation, but then again, that financial burden would probably ruin him more than replacing his house.

I think the bit about the homeowner being an idiot is more of the story than it's made out to be.  I mean, here is his quote, right here: "I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong."  Paraphrased: "I knowingly did not pay for this service but expected to be given it anyway."

[Kazz]

This story has already gotten a lot of attention.

Glenn Beck says they were right to let the home burn, for instance.

[Joxam]

Of course, I think the big problem for the actual firefighters is their boss was there telling them not to do it the entire time. Also he ended up getting his ass kicked by the home owner's son on site and we all know kicking someone's ass is a great way to change someone's minds toward your favor. Basically,  I think the fire chief is a giant entitled jackass, and the worst part about this whole story is that a few news outlets are reporting that the mayor is on his side, instead of firing the bastard to save face.

[Shinra]

Well, we know who won't be fire chief and mayor much longer, at least. When your town has a population of bullshit, "Let community man's home burn down" isn't a great way to seal your place come election time.

[clutch]

the higher ups should have had protocol in place where they did the work and fined or charged the shit out of the person for services rendered. Something like the actual policy stating 'you pay 75 bucks no or the entire cost of mobolizing the fleet then'.

This. In my area there is an option on every water bill to pay an additional amount (~$50/year) for ambulance service. If you don't pay up and you get injured, they won't just leave your ass on the street for lack of foresight. Instead, you will get an invoice later for the cost of your ambulance ride--hundreds, if not thousands of dollars--and a lesson that you shouldn't nickel-and-dime the government.

[Brentai]

Not paying for a public service I probably fineable, anyway.

It's like not having insurance and getting into a crash in California.  We're still going to help you, but I hope you like indentured servitude for the rest of your life.

[Misha]

The point where they refused to help even after he promised to make good is the point where it becomes simply vindictive.  I understand that these are people in high stress positions and now terribly appreciative of people who take that for granted, but somewhere they crossed the line between bureaucracy and malice.

The neighbor who did pay his fee and had his home threatened by an uncontrolled fire has a case for a lawsuit, probably.

While I think the whole thing is dumb, once you have that kind of system it actually makes perfect sense not to change your mind about putting out the fire when the man with his house on fire makes wild promises to pay you. Otherwise no one would pay until their house was on fire, and the fire department wouldn't have any money.