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[Royal☭]

For those who wonder just how crazy Ron Paul is, Vice Magazine (of all magazines) has a good run down of how insane he is

[Thad]

A good, quick read; should be mandatory for all well-meaning Paul supporters.

I'm still pissed at the media's blanket dismissal of him, but it's not because I like him or his politics.

[Brentai]

I still believe Paul has value as the ice pick that cracks the shell of a system that needs to be opened up and gutted.

Still, if we're metagaming, I still prefer the "take advantage of Newt Starscream" option.

Basically anybody but Mitt Romney is likely to send the whole thing off the rails screaming at this point, which makes you wonder if the MSM is TRYING to throw its political puppets under the bus.

[Thad]

Meh.  Given that either one of them is going to get trounced in the general, I am skeptical that it can bring about any change to the status quo.

A Paul nomination would embarrass the media more; a Gingrich nomination would embarrass the Republicans more.  Either one gets steamrolled by Obama, with the end result that he keeps doing the same shit he's been doing.

Paul is better at making his crazy shit sound reasonable; Gingrich can't go a week without suggesting we bring back child labor, or calling Palestinians "a made-up people".

[Büge]

Do you think that Obama's going to do anything different when/if he gets a second term? I mean he won't have to worry about cozying up to right-leaning moderates for votes at that point...

[Brentai]

I think we'd all like to believe that Obama's going to suddenly turn into the skateboarding cool kid we all voted for after 2012, but the truth is that Barack Obama just is who he is: a very slick orator and proud member of the 1%.

[Thad]

Obama's made plenty of concessions that can't just be explained away as pandering for votes.  Some can be explained away as incompetence, and some really are straight-up malice.

I never bought the "Obama as liberal messiah" exaggerations (and hope a look back through my old posts will support that); he ran as a moderate.  But he's still farther to the right than even my modest expectations; I was foolish enough to think "another wasted opportunity like Clinton" was the WORST-case scenario.

In fairness, there are things we can be optimistic about.  Maybe his healthcare package really IS the first step toward a fair, universal system -- it's far too early to make that call.  (What's not too early to call: it's saved people's lives.)

But there's a lot to be pessimistic about, too.  He's continued the Bush Administration's policy of expanding executive power and secrecy -- including, yes, the recent "President can detain citizens forever" legislation.

[Thad]

Rarely say this, but Ross Douthat makes a good point:

IN 2004, the Democrats were furious at what they considered the fraud to end all frauds: the selling of George W. Bush as a decisive military leader and all-American tough guy. So they nominated John Kerry for the presidency, hoping that having a real combat veteran as their standard-bearer — a bemedaled war hero, no less, who began his convention speech by announcing that he was “reporting for duty” — would finally expose Bush as the tinhorn chicken hawk that liberals believed him to be.

The conventional wisdom holds that Mitt Romney is the John Kerry figure (a Northeastern flip-flopper with good hair) in the 2012 Republican primary field, with his various challengers auditioning to play the more exciting role of Howard Dean. But Newt Gingrich’s recent rise in the polls is being sustained, in part, by a right-wing version of exactly the impulse that led Democrats to nominate Kerry: a desperate desire to somehow beat Barack Obama at his own game, and to explode what conservatives consider the great fantasy of the 2008 campaign — the conceit that Obama possessed an unmatched brilliance and an unprecedented eloquence.

Via Paul Waldman, via Mark Evanier, both of which pieces are also worth reading.

(Waldman also quotes Krugman as saying Gingrich is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like.)

[Shinra]

Meh.  Given that either one of them is going to get trounced in the general, I am skeptical that it can bring about any change to the status quo.

A Paul nomination would embarrass the media more; a Gingrich nomination would embarrass the Republicans more.  Either one gets steamrolled by Obama, with the end result that he keeps doing the same shit he's been doing.

Paul is better at making his crazy shit sound reasonable; Gingrich can't go a week without suggesting we bring back child labor, or calling Palestinians "a made-up people".

I am genuinely concerned that if Ron Paul got the primary, the same youth that voted Obama into office would mobilize to make sure Paul secured the presidency. Keep in mind he would have the full support of the republican voter base behind him, and he is not an unpopular figure to the tea-partier types like Romney is. He would be unlikely to cause much internal strife save for the quiet grumbling of the republican elite leadership, whose hands would be tied.

Look at Paul's facebook, twitter and reddit prescense. It is absolutely insane how much support he has among the 18-30 crowd. Our age group does not typically vote, but we showed up to the polls for Obama. I don't think he's as unelectable in the general as he has been made out to be. I just don't see him getting past the primary.

And while I understand he is toxic if you even begin to scratch beneath the surface, the average voter isn't much for facts and the ron paul crowd will ignore anything (or rationalize anything) negative brought to their attention regarding their Lord and Savior. Let's not underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

[Thad]

Stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't put too much stock in the youth vote swinging elections.

It's possible the Occupy crowd could turn around and decide it likes the idea of a wholesale dismantling of the social safety net, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Thad]

Trump debate canceled after everybody pulls out except Gingrich and Santorum; something something joke about santorum and pulling out.

We've finally found the bar for "too undignified for the Republican presidential field to participate".

[Shinra]

something something joke about santorum and pulling out.

When Santorum gets stuck in, there's no flip flopping about. He's frothing at the mouth to debate with every Tom, Dick and Hairy he can find. And when Santorum finally does pull out, he smears his mark on the field. You'll know Santorum's been there.

Stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't put too much stock in the youth vote swinging elections.

It's possible the Occupy crowd could turn around and decide it likes the idea of a wholesale dismantling of the social safety net, but I wouldn't count on it.

While I appreciate what the Occupy crowd is doing, considering that a huge portion of their protestor base is 20-something college kids who don't understand what social security actually is and does for them, I don't expect them to be educated enough to make that judgement.

I actually sit next to a guy at work who is a huge occupy nerd and he is a rabid supporter of paul.

[Royal☭]

Paul has his supporters in the camp, but I wouldn't extend that to all of them. Nor would I go around calling them so ignorant they don't know what social security does.

[Norondor]

of course they know what it does. it burdens the free market.

[Thad]

Nor would I go around calling them so ignorant they don't know what social security does.

[Norondor]

 

[Royal☭]

This isn't helping the case against Nor's multiple-personality, is it?

[Thad]

Hannity: Would a Ron Paul Win in Iowa Hand the Election to Obama?

I think this is a big part of why people like Ron Paul.

[Brentai]

I swear we missed a huge chance here.  If we had known just how myopically obsessed the GOP was about beating Barack Obama we could have just made Franken or some other dream candidate switch party affilitations and campaign under the message "My politics are unimportant; what's important is that I can DEFINITELY beat Obama."

[Thad]

CBS: AP-GfK Poll: Majority says Obama deserves to be voted out, but not flocking to GOP hopefuls.

Man, and if THAT doesn't describe this and every presidential election in a nutshell.  He deserves to lose, but...there's not actually anybody who deserves to win.