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Author Topic: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections  (Read 88584 times)

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Brentai

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #560 on: January 30, 2012, 08:10:51 PM »

Senate OK'd something that basically said that yeah of course that's not legal, and then made it unenforceable for at least a year (a.k.a. enough time for the next administration to dismantle it).  House is stalling under the argument that their version of the bill is flawed but refuses to clarify on how; the counterargument is that House leadership has been sitting on the same damn bill for six years.  Which lets everyone know that, oh, yeah, this isn't something we just now decided is a problem or anything.
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #561 on: January 30, 2012, 08:17:22 PM »

Right -- it's the House leadership that got caught doing it, and it's the House leadership that for some reason doesn't want this to go anywhere.
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #562 on: January 31, 2012, 01:14:56 PM »

The Atlantic says people don't like Romney because he's the Uncanny Valley candidate; he's too perfect a reproduction of what a presidential candidate is supposed to be and that's what makes him repellant.

I think it's bullshit, but it's clever, entertaining bullshit, which is more than I can say for most of the bullshit surrounding this campaign season.
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Brentai

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #563 on: January 31, 2012, 02:57:30 PM »

I think one of the linked articles puts it better: the man simply CAN NOT connect with the common people.  He looks great up on the stump, but the moment he comes down to kiss babies he turns people off.  I'd love to blame it on living in a goddam Francium Tower but really I think that's just who he is - kind of your friendly but weird uncle who constantly says things that were meant to be funny but just come off as incredibly awkward.

It's just one more thing that boggles the mind about the idea that Romney is the most electable candidate.  You've got a guy whose policy differences with the incumbant are impossible to spot without a pair of opera glasses, who represents sort of the exact thing that people are flooding the streets in protest of, and who can't one-on-one with the voters to save his fucking career, and you're pitting him against the master, the fucking MASTER of the Town Hall, in an era of unprecedented global communication and social networking technology?  How EXACTLY secure are you in the idea that people think Obama's policies are failing?  Because all it's going to take is one good October Surprise, and you're all going to be standing there with nothing a single soundbite that sounds hollower every time you repeat it.
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Mongrel

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #564 on: January 31, 2012, 03:05:39 PM »

So Bob Dole says the Republicans shouldn't put in Newt because they'll lose in a Goldwater-esque landslide.

But what if that actually happens with Romney?

I mean, I grant it's pretty damned unlikely if only because too many people hate Obama too much. But one particularly bad deer-in-headlights moment and you never know.
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Brentai

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #565 on: January 31, 2012, 03:31:34 PM »

Well in all honesty, in almost any scenario, Mitt Romney will lose by a smaller margin by Newt Gingrich.  Romney doesn't have people in his own party who honestly want to see him burn in Hell (for reasons other than his religious affiliation, anyway).

It's going to be an interesting race either way, simply because, no matter who the GOP puts on the podium at this point, it's going to be a race between two people whose own parties simply don't like them.  I can't think of any race in my lifetime where there wasn't at least one nominee who had the general support of his own base.  I'm mainly just giving it to Obama on the basis of incumbancy, an overwhelming advantage in charisma, and the inevitability of a torrential downpour of reports in October showing how not-bad a job he's actually done.

Also, there's the fact that Romney is kind of an idiot.

Quote
Sometimes Mr. Romney will engage in a back-and-forth with tough questioners; in Concord, N.H., a woman told him that she favored socialized medicine. “I’ve got someone for you,” Mr. Romney said. “His name is Barack Obama. He agrees with you. Ha-ha.”

Okay so it's not exactly Gingrich, Defender of the Sanctity of Marriage... okay actually yes it is.  I'm pretty sure the new strategy for the GOP is to leave yourself as wide open to the most obvious attacks as possible, and then when called out on it, put on your best wounded kitten face and cry about how mean all you journalists are.  The worst part about it is that THIS SOMEHOW ACTUALLY WORKS and now everyone's afraid to criticize a President or potential President to his face.  If we could harness the energy generated by Teddy Roosevelt spinning in his grave we'd be able to end our dependence on foreign oil forever.
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Mongrel

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #566 on: January 31, 2012, 03:39:33 PM »

You know, I hear more and more so-and-so spinning in their grave jokes every day.
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Pacobird

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #567 on: January 31, 2012, 08:32:16 PM »

So Bob Dole says the Republicans shouldn't put in Newt because they'll lose in a Goldwater-esque landslide.

But what if that actually happens with Romney?

I mean, I grant it's pretty damned unlikely if only because too many people hate Obama too much. But one particularly bad deer-in-headlights moment and you never know.

Whatever criticisms one may level against Mitt Romney I think it is fair to say the man is Ready for Prime-Time.
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #568 on: January 31, 2012, 08:42:29 PM »

It's just one more thing that boggles the mind about the idea that Romney is the most electable candidate.
Well in all honesty, in almost any scenario, Mitt Romney will lose by a smaller margin by Newt Gingrich.  Romney doesn't have people in his own party who honestly want to see him burn in Hell (for reasons other than his religious affiliation, anyway).

That's pretty much it.  Romney is the most electable candidate simply by default, because Huntsman never got a chance to get a word in edgewise and everyone else is even worse.

He's kinda stumbled into this by being the guy who came in second in the '08 primaries, to the guy who came in second in the '00 primaries.  To the son of the guy who came in second in the '92 general.  Who was played by Dana Carvey in a 1991 episode of Saturday Night Live hosted by...Kevin Bacon!

It's going to be an interesting race either way, simply because, no matter who the GOP puts on the podium at this point, it's going to be a race between two people whose own parties simply don't like them.  I can't think of any race in my lifetime where there wasn't at least one nominee who had the general support of his own base.

I dunno -- '92 and '00 don't seem like years where either party's base was wildly enthusiastic.

...you know, I'm actually a little surprised nobody's registered barackobamaisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com.

I'm mainly just giving it to Obama on the basis of incumbancy, an overwhelming advantage in charisma, and the inevitability of a torrential downpour of reports in October showing how not-bad a job he's actually done.

I'm inclined to agree, but Romney's got a shot.  If unemployment's still at 8% in October it doesn't matter how the hell many news stories say he's doing a good job.

Whatever criticisms one may level against Mitt Romney I think it is fair to say the man is Ready for Prime-Time.

Yeah, he blew it on the question about releasing his tax records but he didn't just recover the next week, he fucking SPANKED the guy who everyone had crowned King of All Debates.
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Brentai

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #569 on: January 31, 2012, 09:25:39 PM »

Who, Gingrich?  The guy who walked right into a waiting fist by trying to attack his rival for making money off a company that he himself worked for and still owns stock in?

I don't think it's too much of a compliment to say he recovered nicely from being thrashed so heavily by Spaceman Newt that it made Spaceman Newt seem like an amazing orator.  That's not just having a regular-ass off day.  That's stumbling so hard that you can wave hello to Satan before bouncing right off the icy floor of Judecca.

And he really does stumble more often than he ought to.  He might be on fire every once in a while but in the general campaign he strikes me as too slow a thinker to really keep up on the national stage, and he's developed a bad, bad reputation for trying to deflect or maneuver around things he doesn't have an immediate answer for, which is a lot.  That works okay in the bubble he's in now, where journalists have all been told to shut the fuck up and get back in the kitchen, but once he becomes The Nominee and gets exposed to the liberal media he's gonna have to contend with a contingent that just lives to make people like him sweat bullets.

But, you know, if he wins, good on him.  I don't care.  I cared for a moment when I realized just how much damage a person like him could do as President, but now it's almost like... if he does enough damage, serious, totally irreparable damage, maybe it'll spark the sort of complete bottoming out and restructuring that's the only possible positive long-term outcome for the next four years.
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Mongrel

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #570 on: January 31, 2012, 09:44:48 PM »

I used to think that, but I'm pretty sure there's a whole lot more room for damage before it forces a rebound.
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #571 on: February 01, 2012, 07:29:06 AM »

Who, Gingrich?  The guy who walked right into a waiting fist by trying to attack his rival for making money off a company that he himself worked for and still owns stock in?

And Bush claimed he never said he doesn't think about Bin Laden anymore.  It doesn't matter if what you say in a presidential debate is actually true or makes any kind of sense.  Especially in a Republican primary, and ESPECIALLY especially if you're Newt Gingrich and have already managed to capture Family Values voters.

(Incidentally, I would like to give kudos to Wolf Blitzer for actually following up and saying "Yes Mitt, we checked, that is your ad and it has you saying you endorse it at the end of it," except I think that treating this behavior as praiseworthy sends the wrong message.)

I don't think it's too much of a compliment to say he recovered nicely from being thrashed so heavily by Spaceman Newt that it made Spaceman Newt seem like an amazing orator.  That's not just having a regular-ass off day.  That's stumbling so hard that you can wave hello to Satan before bouncing right off the icy floor of Judecca.

Nah, Newt was a good enough speaker and politician to make some major gains for most of the 1990's -- against Clinton, the goddamn master.  The trouble is that the shit he says eventually catches up to him, he doesn't know how petty is too petty, and of course the corruption and cheating on multiple wives.

And he really does stumble more often than he ought to.  He might be on fire every once in a while but in the general campaign he strikes me as too slow a thinker to really keep up on the national stage, and he's developed a bad, bad reputation for trying to deflect or maneuver around things he doesn't have an immediate answer for, which is a lot.  That works okay in the bubble he's in now, where journalists have all been told to shut the fuck up and get back in the kitchen, but once he becomes The Nominee and gets exposed to the liberal media he's gonna have to contend with a contingent that just lives to make people like him sweat bullets.

True, but he's a quick learner and he's got good people coaching him now.  If they're competent to predict questions that people are GOING to ask instead of just telling him how he SHOULD have responded when they already WERE asked, he'll be in decent shape.

Probably not as good as Obama, but again, if unemployment stays where it is he might be good enough.

But, you know, if he wins, good on him.  I don't care.  I cared for a moment when I realized just how much damage a person like him could do as President, but now it's almost like... if he does enough damage, serious, totally irreparable damage, maybe it'll spark the sort of complete bottoming out and restructuring that's the only possible positive long-term outcome for the next four years.
I used to think that, but I'm pretty sure there's a whole lot more room for damage before it forces a rebound.

Yeah, I can't really imagine a Romney presidency being anywhere near as bad as the Bush Administration.

But then, I didn't think Bush would be worse than Nixon, either, so I guess you never know.


...anyhow.  Mitt wins Florida handily; Newt still acting like he's viable and media complying.

Coming races are going to be boring.  Mostly Romney - Gingrich - Paul - Santorum.  That's certainly how I expect Arizona to go, short of Gingrich crashing and burning hard enough to fall behind Paul.

The southwest doesn't have the Deep South's issue of fundamentalists refusing to vote for a Mormon.  Mormons are a pretty integral part of the GOP around these parts, and embraced by the evangelical crowd.  Romney's got nothing to fear on that score.

Paul fans are Paul fans and no one else will do.  He'll get steady but small support throughout the rest of the campaign.  I'm curious whether he'll do better or worse than in '08 -- on the one hand, anecdotally I see a lot fewer signs and general enthusiasm for him this year; on the other, he's probably got more mainstream recognition and support.  On the other other hand, his mainstream supporters are not as reliable as his diehard fans, and may end up voting for Romney as a "good enough" alternative (and certainly will in the general).
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #572 on: February 01, 2012, 09:42:20 AM »

Adding: The interesting thing about the Arizona primary is that there's no immigration hawk in this race.  (Actually, I don't know and don't care what Santorum's immigration policy is, but the other three aren't immigration hawks, at any rate.)

While it would be funny to see Romney and Gingrich go from tripping all over themselves to prove who loves Cubans more to tripping all over themselves to pander to "Finish the dang fence!" types, I don't really see it happening.  Immigration's still a big damn issue in Arizona, but I think public opinion's starting to swing back in a moderate direction, and I think Romney and Gingrich will probably realize that neither one of them wants to say much on the subject at the risk of alienating their base in the state.

And Paul is Paul.  He doesn't give a fuck about immigration policy and, like all things, thinks we should let the free market take care of it and get the government the fuck out the way.

I suppose that if he wanted to, Santorum could say some crazy shit to try and distinguish himself from the others.  I won't rule it out as a possibility, but again, I don't know what his stance is and I don't care.
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Pacobird

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #573 on: February 01, 2012, 03:47:08 PM »

The Arizona primary will be interesting to watch if only as a barometer of how strong a play the GOP wants to make for the Latino vote generally in this election, which is an important question considering it had spent most of the 2000s quietly attempting to forge a relationship with the Latino community only to completely abandon all that work in 2010 when it decided it could win big on the economy alone without pretending brown people do not make it extremely nervous.
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Brentai

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #574 on: February 01, 2012, 05:32:14 PM »

So, very poor, safety net, etc etc etc

You know given his stated assumption I'm inclined to agree with the "entire sentence".  Yeah sure, if the country's impoverished (read: half of everybody) is pretty well Maslowed and comfortable then yes Mitt please focus your attention on my bullshit problems.

The problem of course is that
1) No they fucking aren't and you're an ignorant bourgeosie shithead for even suggesting that.
2) Every time a Republican takes office it's time to start worrying about the health of that magical self-sustaining "safety net".

If I were running that campaign I'd like to see "safety net" become one of the central buzzwords of the campaign.  Because it's something that really needs to become a talking point: yo dawgs it's great that you want to fix all the shit that the corporations are in but uhh what's your plan for making sure this 9% unemployed and further 41+% impoverished don't end up homeless and starving?

Well, I guess we already know that at least one answer is going to be "nothing, because obviously everybody's perfectly okay living on food stamps, and when we cut those they'll still be happy eating imaginary food like in Neverland!"

I wonder if Romney's one of the guys under the impression that those things can buy you cruise tickets.

Fuck it, I need some coffee.
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Shinra

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #575 on: February 01, 2012, 05:59:13 PM »


And Paul is Paul.  He doesn't give a fuck about immigration policy and, like all things, thinks we should let the free market take care of it and get the government the fuck out the way.


Actually Ron Paul has been pretty militant against brown people this election cycle whilst maintaining he is totally not a racist, you gais.
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Mongrel

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #576 on: February 01, 2012, 06:23:06 PM »

Man look at the merchandise on that site. That guy knows how to play the Demagogue card.

Right now he attracts mostly youth and crazies but I sure can't wait to see what flavours candidates come in by the time people who are young now are middle-aged and have been followed by generations of similarly hopeless kids.

And by "can't wait" I mean, I could totally wait forever.
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McDohl

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #577 on: February 01, 2012, 06:53:52 PM »

See, I think that this current culture has to do with what our parents told us when we were young.  "Go to college, and you've got it made."

Then, when it became time for us to go to college, tuition costs started skyrocketing as the older generation became fixated on their own welfare, even if it would be at the cost of the younger.  We're slowly realizing this, and it's not pretty.  I hate to think of what our generations' children will turn out like.

Please feel free to ignore this post if I'm not making sense.
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Mongrel

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #578 on: February 01, 2012, 06:58:46 PM »

I've been saying that "things have to get a lot worse before they get better". Well, if that does in fact turn out to be correct a contributing factor will almost certainly be the current crop of youth losing all hope once they hit 30-40 years old.
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #579 on: February 01, 2012, 07:41:07 PM »

The Arizona primary will be interesting to watch if only as a barometer of how strong a play the GOP wants to make for the Latino vote generally in this election, which is an important question considering it had spent most of the 2000s quietly attempting to forge a relationship with the Latino community only to completely abandon all that work in 2010 when it decided it could win big on the economy alone without pretending brown people do not make it extremely nervous.

Weeeell, that and the whole business about scuttling Bush's attempts at immigration reform.

You know given his stated assumption I'm inclined to agree with the "entire sentence".  Yeah sure, if the country's impoverished (read: half of everybody) is pretty well Maslowed and comfortable then yes Mitt please focus your attention on my bullshit problems.

The problem of course is that
1) No they fucking aren't and you're an ignorant bourgeosie shithead for even suggesting that.

What is this Country doing for the Doomed?

"Fuck the doomed."

I can't remember the last time I saw anyone, of either party, even bother paying lip service to people below the poverty line.  It's always "the middle class" this, "the middle class" that.  Even Clinton's generally-acknowledged years of prosperity did precious little to help the poor.

Cynically, that could be because the poor don't vote -- but more likely it's because the poor don't consider themselves poor.  Statistics show that most people describe themselves as "middle-class" even if they're not.

If I were running that campaign I'd like to see "safety net" become one of the central buzzwords of the campaign.  Because it's something that really needs to become a talking point: yo dawgs it's great that you want to fix all the shit that the corporations are in but uhh what's your plan for making sure this 9% unemployed and further 41+% impoverished don't end up homeless and starving?

It would be nice.

Actually Ron Paul has been pretty militant against brown people this election cycle whilst maintaining he is totally not a racist, you gais.

Looks like a fanboy site to me.

I'll certainly acknowledge the possibility that all that's an accurate depiction of stuff Paul's said recently, but last I heard he was telling Cubans that people would stop complaining about illegal immigration if they got jobs.

If he's said something different to different demographics, well, he wouldn't be the first politician to talk out both sides of his mouth.
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